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THE Monsanto Thread (merged)

THE Monsanto Thread (merged)

Unread postby Guest » Thu 17 Jun 2004, 05:20:32

Does anyone know details of the latest innovations of genetically modified seeds for food? I know that they are producing rice, wheat, etc that is more resistant to bugs, thus less insecticide is needed. Are there strains that are high yielding that require less fertilizers? I don't even know if that is something that they are working on. It just occurred to me as a potential partial solution less fertilizer for peak oil.
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Unread postby Guest » Thu 17 Jun 2004, 05:27:29

Also, how much land area does it taking to grow enough food for a family of 4?
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Unread postby Guest » Thu 17 Jun 2004, 07:32:00

Here is an article on how GM foods can dramatically reduce fertilizers and pesticides, plus improve water quality. It discusses things like no till farming and removing salt from farmland. All of this is possible via genetically modified foods.

In a world of peak oil with dramatic declines in energy inputs, this could be a key piece of the puzzle.
link
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Unread postby Guest » Thu 17 Jun 2004, 15:17:39

LOADS OF HOGWASH! GM foods are not needed. Organic open polinated foods CAN support the world, even at current levels, IF we make the switch with fiar controls.

MOST GM foods are made to use MORE PESTICIDES with like Monsato's "Round up ready" Soya, Corn, etc. they are modified in order to withstand more ("Round-up") piosin, and not die!
Monsato's GM Cotton was a dismal FAILURE at trying to put a pesticide into a plant. It simply did not work.

Treminator seeds (those that are only good for one season) are a WASTE of recources as it takes a Biotech company to grow them , and then sell to farmers.
Don't fall for the propaganda, and don't support contaminating my food supply any more that these demons have already done w/ "genetic drift."
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Unread postby JayHMorrison » Thu 17 Jun 2004, 16:04:40

Anonymous wrote:LOADS OF HOGWASH!

GM foods are not needed.

Organic open polinated foods CAN support the world, even at current levels, IF we make the switch with fiar controls.


I think you missed the point on GM food combined with Peak Oil. I think the reason that we need to consider GM type foods is because of the coming reductions in energy inputs for agriculture.

Farming cannot support even a fraction of the world once oil production falls 25%. GM foods as described in that article could maintain food yields with dramatically less amounts of energy inputs.
Less fertilizers, less pesticides, fewer applications by farmers = less needs for tractors, etc.

Dont look now, but if you eat rice at all, you are likely aready eating GM food.
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Unread postby Guest » Thu 17 Jun 2004, 16:08:58

If Communist Cuba can do it w/o GM foods So can the USA!

Or do you think were not as good as Castro's little plantation? :lol:
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Unread postby Guest » Thu 17 Jun 2004, 20:35:27

Anonymous wrote:If Communist Cuba can do it w/o GM foods So can the USA!

Or do you think were not as good as Castro's little plantation? :lol:


Once again, I think you miss the point. You are already using genetically modified seeds. This is not a debate about whether we will use them or not. It is already here and growing. There are just too many advantages to be gained from some of the things that are possible.

No till farming is one of the most important improvements.
Plants that can actually lower the salt content of damaged land is HUGE. Tomatoes that can THRIVE on salty water that is almost 1/2 the salinity of salt water.

In a low energy world, plants that have a natural pesticide or fertilizer could DRAMATICALLY lower the energy requirements of farming.

Organic farming would require that huge areas of the remaining forests be cut down. That is essentially a death sentence in post peak oil. You need to accept the simple fact that genetically modified agriculture is likely the best chance to avoid 4 billion people dying.
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Unread postby The_Virginian » Sat 19 Jun 2004, 08:47:20

No I don't have to accept lies

Ever heard of an Egyptian "Hamed" OLIVE TREE. It is salt tolerant. It sucks up the salt form the soil, provides a useful crop (oil, food, soap from the oils etc.), and even gives some firewood when you prune it.

Farmes in Western Austrailia are now planting (Israeli) "Kadesh Barnea" olive trees in Saline soil, or other marginal areas.

Does your tomato provide bio desiel????

There ARE better alternatives than the GM foods.

There is no need to patent our food for the benifit of corperations who don't give a $hit if you and I survive. they will take our food, and put us in jail if we replant the crops w/o their permision (as happened to a farmer who planted his GM corn seed).

There is NO NEED to empower them, more than they have already done, to perminantly alter our food supply. On one occasion GM corn used to raise Bio-tech BLOOD PRODUCTS (human genes mixes in) made it into your food supply...is that a good thing?

By planting the proper plants like INDUSTRIAL Hemp (low THC = no drug value) we can reclaim marginal land NOT IN USE NOW, and provide a BETTER ALTERNATIVE TO GM FOODS.

www.jackherer.com

Olive trees, Pistachio trees, Pomigranite trees, Native Grasses (animals can forage on them and provide useful MEAT), Hemp, NUT Trees (Pecans etc.) ALL of these crops have SALT TOLERANCE, ALL of these do so NATURALY w/ NO GENETIC MODIFICATION (patents) NEEDED.
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Unread postby JayHMorrison » Sat 19 Jun 2004, 09:39:33

The_Virginian wrote:No I don't have to accept lies

There is no need to patent our food for the benifit of corperations who don't give a $hit if you and I survive. they will take our food, and put us in jail if we replant the crops w/o their permision (as happened to a farmer who planted his GM corn seed).


You are getting very emotional and obviously have a lot of anger. So debating this is not something that is productive. I would just suggest that you be a bit more objective and open minded. You may not know it yet, but this is not something that you cannot avoid and the decisions have already been made regarding GM in crops. The most you can do is try to regulate safety standards into it. The genie is out of the bottle.
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Thu 01 Jul 2004, 13:09:35

I strongly recommend EVERYONE to go to Global Public Media and listen to the online interview with Jeffrey Smith - Author of Seeds of Deception.

Right now GM foods are being used as described above, specifically to be Round-Up impervious so farmers can use WAY MORE HERBICIDE than before. And the effects are awful for the environment in so many ways.

GM foods are also virtually untested by the FDA before making it to grocery shelves with no labelling whatsoever. There may be serious health implications for GM foods. They are being snuck into the food supply in very devious ways.

GM foods are NOT THE ANSWER to the future global hunger problem. The ONLY solution is a massive die-off, there's no alternative.

Click on that link and listen to that interview.
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Unread postby Guest » Thu 01 Jul 2004, 13:35:29

More Roundup is better than many of the alternatives. But even at that the amount/A/year you can apply doesn't change. You can only apply X amount of quarts/year RR crop or not.

Roundup breaks down rapidly in the soil and is one of the safest (for non-target organisms) herbicides there is.

Better than atrazine in your water no?
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Thu 01 Jul 2004, 13:44:28

Sure, that's great, but we have no idea what kind of problems the GMO foods cause since there has never been any studies (and the ones that have been, are disturbing, as is the industry's reaction - listen to the interview above).
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No GM food here

Unread postby Guest from Germany » Thu 01 Jul 2004, 15:02:36

Have been reading here silently for some time.

I think that GM food debate is US specific.

Here in Europe there is no GM food on the market, so Genie is not out of the bottle.

How can you be so naive to consider GM food helping you when TSHTF?

Educate yourself about GM, but don't trust Monsanto and the like.

Why don't we have GM food here?

People have educated themselves over the years about the dangers and that it is all about multi national companies taking control of your food. And eventually taking our money.

So nobody would buy GM.

Supermarkets would not offer GM because they know there would be boycotts from consumers.

Farmers don't want GM crops because they know supermarkets would not want it.

So we have a nice chain from the consumer to the farmer all agreeing we do neither want nor need that.

(We don't even want GM soja or similar from the US, and have stopped importing that. So the US government decided to take us to court to have us forced to import that crap. No worries, it will all rot in the ports, see above. Fortunately enough there is legislation that GM food has to be marked to on the package. Oh boy, only one found in the supermarket, can you imagine what happens then.)

It is very easy. Why does it no work in the US? I guess no education about the dangers, that's where it starts.

Cheers
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Unread postby The_Virginian » Thu 01 Jul 2004, 17:16:03

decisions have already been made regarding GM in crops

Jay you speak like a dictator. I know the american food supply is Polluted, and it's only getting worse. GM is "icing on the ugly cake". I TRY to go organic when I can, but it is not easy. You statements are full of falsehoods. If you cover up for the liars, you become one yourself.
Guest:
More Roundup is better than many of the alternatives

Ok, I can accept the honest truth that chemical "A" may be better than chemical "B." But at what levels?
Why should I let a "straw man" company control my food supply at it's very genetic source? So they can pollute me less with chemical "A" instead of chemical "B"?
guest From Germany wrote:
People have educated themselves over the years about the dangers and that it is all about multi national companies taking control of your food

AMEN.
[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watchv=Ai4te4daLZs&feature=related[/url] "My soul longs for the candle and the spices. If only you would pour me a cup of wine for Havdalah...My heart yearning, I shall lift up my eyes to g-d, who provides for my needs day and night."
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Unread postby Guest » Thu 01 Jul 2004, 19:08:26

Uhh, unless you're gathering wild types and breeding them yourself as your sole foodsource I'm guessing some company somewhere is dictating what you're buying.
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Unread postby The_Virginian » Sat 03 Jul 2004, 17:05:22

Uhh, the qoute stands on the merit of "at it's genetic source"

Simply meaning that manipulation on a genetic level (gene mixixg, not refinement) that leads to a patent. (This would exclude a patented Hybrid as they are not combinations of diverse species as in most GM "foods")
[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watchv=Ai4te4daLZs&feature=related[/url] "My soul longs for the candle and the spices. If only you would pour me a cup of wine for Havdalah...My heart yearning, I shall lift up my eyes to g-d, who provides for my needs day and night."
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Unread postby JayHMorrison » Sat 03 Jul 2004, 19:38:31

The_Virginian wrote:
decisions have already been made regarding GM in crops

Jay you speak like a dictator. I know the american food supply is Polluted, and it's only getting worse. GM is "icing on the ugly cake". I TRY to go organic when I can, but it is not easy. You statements are full of falsehoods. If you cover up for the liars, you become one yourself.

America and Canada feed the world. We export so much food that if we are making it, I can assure you that the rest of the world is eating it.
GM foods need laws to regulate the safety of the product. Just like coal plants need safety regs, cars need safety regs, playground equipment needs safety regs. If there is any chance of avoiding massive startvation is certain parts of the world, GM foods are the likely source of millions being able to eat.

Oh, but I forgot. You are one of those who actually wants everyone to die quickly in some post peak oil massive die off.. You freakin nut. People like you are going to be viewed as the future Hitler or Stalin. What is your extermination policy going to be? Anyone not like you or not in tune with your belief system starves?
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Unread postby Jakob » Sun 04 Jul 2004, 09:01:24

Farmers does not only nead farmland but also animals so they have something to fertilize the plants with. The animals eats wildgrown plants. This is much more effective than your "tech vegetables".

You nead a few cows, goats, pigs, dogs, cats, a working horse and a plethora of tools. It can be done, if you actually starts working with it, forget about the tech plants and get yourself a book about traditional farming.
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Unread postby JayHMorrison » Sun 04 Jul 2004, 13:06:21

Jakob wrote:You nead a few cows, goats, pigs, dogs, cats, a working horse and a plethora of tools. It can be done, if you actually starts working with it, forget about the tech plants and get yourself a book about traditional farming.


Traditional farming which involves plowing leads to massive topsoil errosion. After a few decades of "traditional" farming, the land becomes more and more difficult to continue farming.
link

Read this article about some of the good ideas that are coming out of no-till farming and what is quickly becoming a reality.
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Unread postby small_steps » Sun 04 Jul 2004, 13:44:13

JayHMorrison wrote:
Jakob wrote:You nead a few cows, goats, pigs, dogs, cats, a working horse and a plethora of tools. It can be done, if you actually starts working with it, forget about the tech plants and get yourself a book about traditional farming.
Traditional farming which involves plowing leads to massive topsoil errosion. After a few decades of "traditional" farming, the land becomes more and more difficult to continue farming. [url=http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/10/rauch.htm]/url]
Read this article about some of the good ideas that are coming out of no-till farming and what is quickly becoming a reality.

Coming from a family that has transitioned from plowing to no till, can I say that their are a number of inaccuracies present in the article.
No-till creates slightly less yeilding crops than plowing, thought to be the shading of the ground by the previous crop residue (which reduces the ground temp (at least in the northern US)).

Using no-till requires a tractor of greater HP as instead of cutting and turning the soil, you must tear through it to work it. (But fewer passes are required- less compaction of soil)
With either plowing or no-till, the earth is very much alive, if the farmer did not go overboard in application of fertilizers and pesticides. The residue from the previous crop decays whether it lays on top of the soil, or is buried 18 inches below the surface.

Much of the improvements cites can be attributed to GPS technology and the capacity to apply only what and where the fertilizer, herbicide, and pesticides are needed.
At least these are my experiences.
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