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Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 15:06:53
by Squilliam
For 1 million years life on earth has adapted itself to going into and out of ice ages over approximately 100,000-year cycles. We come out of ice ages in about 10,000 years, with CO2 rising 100 ppm in that time. That is a rate of increase of about 0.01 ppm/year. If we use this as a typical rate to which nature has adapted, and has done so already for at least 10 cycles, then we can determine how much faster than this we are now moving. The idea is that if we limit CO2 rise to this rate, we expect nature will adapt; the further away we move from this base rate the more difficulty nature will have adapting.


Image

The rapid industrialization sparked by WWII marked a rapid increase near 1950 that has continued, unabated, yielding a rate now more than 100 times the base rate.

This is comparable to the effect of running into a parked car, and if left unchecked, we may soon be running into a brick wall.


https://www.skepticalscience.com/SkS_An ... Kills.html

Surely the rate of change counts as chaos? Adaptation has limits when the rate of change is quite high. Try adapting to crashing into a brick wall at high speed... not nice.

Alternatively this clip is a perfect analogy for the climate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f92xD4oYx_c

Adapt to this mother nature... :cry:

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 15:10:12
by onlooker
True Squil, regardless of the wholesale change, the rate of change is in and of itself destabilizing to natural ecosystems

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 15:22:52
by dohboi
As I demonstrate to my class, if I move a pen slowly toward my head, it poses little risk, since I have plenty of time to move.

If it were to be shot point blank out of a gun into my skull, not so much. (I don't actually demonstrate this part! :-D )

The only difference is rate of change.

We are firing the bullet.

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 16:15:41
by dohboi
[Climate Chaos is] pushing some companies to Amazon’s cloud

From New Jersey to Japan, massive storms and earthquakes in recent years have instantly wiped out technical infrastructures, leaving businesses unable to retrieve critical data. Amazon Chief Technology Officer Werner Vogels told CNBC on Tuesday that companies are turning to the cloud to make sure their data is backed up and always accessible.

Speaking in an interview from the AWS Summit in San Francisco, Vogels said that banks and telecommunications companies in the Philippines have been swarming into AWS facilities in Singapore of late, “given the massive typhoons that have hit the country time after time.”


http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/18/amazon-c ... shift.html

...

and then there's

...

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Grounded iceberg near Ferryland, Newfoundland - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39632047

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 16:42:21
by dohboi
While the total numbers of hurricanes had not increased, the season has. It used to be June to October in the North Atlantic, now it goes into November officially. But since May now has as many storms as does November, that May - Nov will likely soon be the new official hurricane season.

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 20:20:44
by Newfie
A few years ago I spent a couple of weeks in Renews, just down the coast from Ferryland. Ferry land is the original location picked by Lord Baltimore for his new world enclave. His second try worked out better, it's now known as simply Baltimore.

From a tourist page....
Ferryland is where George Calvert, better known as Lord Baltimore, founded the Colony of Avalon in 1621. Today, you can peer over the shoulders of working archaeologists as they uncover the foundations of houses and a cobblestone street built in the 17th century. And you can view some of the thousands of discovered artifacts at the interpretation centre.

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 20:23:51
by dohboi
Hey, Newfie. Thanks for the history.

And I feel I may have to apologize. Someone from Newfoundland on another blog just noted that 'newf' usually refers to the dog breed. I had no idea, and did not intend to equate you with a dog (though they are quite magnificent, actually). Hope you weren't assuming that it was anything other than just my usual ignorance and laziness.

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 20:32:02
by Newfie
No offense taken.

My other half is "Piney"

Piney (me Fat'er)
Southern New Jersey term for locals with a long history of living in the area-the "originals" some say. Direct decendants of the orginals families that settled the area. Many Piney have made a living off of the land by farming and hunting or off the water by claming, fishing. Some have been boat builders and wood carvers. Many have participated in the local blue grass music scene. Part of a rich historical tradition not understood or respected by some arrogant newcommers. I was a "city slicker" 40 years ago but those of us who respected the locals assimilated better. Pineys have plenty of reasons to be proud.

newfie (me Mutter)
Newfoundlander. (Newfoundland Canada). One of the proudest race of people in the planet. Former fishermen, but since the government shut down the fishery industry, they are still all unemployed, except for the few who run small businesses/stores or those who move away.

They are noted by their notoriously thick accent, such can be heard in expressions such as "ey by! (hey boy / You dont say!)" or "whataya at? (What are you at / What are you doing atthis moment?)"

There is also a breed of jokes called Newfie jokes which poke fun at this breed of human, but ironically enough, Newfies are the creators of such jokes.

In insult, these people have been compared to "red necks"
Jeez, yer a newfie!!

God, he must a freakin Newfie, no one can ride a moose that fast!

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 21:03:36
by dohboi
:-D :-D :-D

Sounds like you are a rather lucky ol' dog, after all! :)

Re: Climate Chaos Is Here Pt. 3

Unread postPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017, 00:30:50
by ralfy
Tanada wrote:
My biggest issue with this thread is that most people confuse WEATHER with CLIMATE. Until you have a 30 to 50 year average you do not have climate. Do you really think climate in 2017 is chaotic compared to 1986? Or even a stronger case, more chaotic than 1966? Remember you are not comparing two years, you are comparing the 30-50 year average from 30 to 50 years ago with the 30-50 year average as seen THIS YEAR.

Weather has been pretty sporadic the last 5-10 years, but I fondly recall the 1970's when the weather was pretty unusual as well. A year or a decade of unusual weather is interesting, but it is not climate.


I think an even bigger issue is waiting for it to happen, and then declaring that steps should be taken to deal with it when it's too late.