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LED Light Bulbs (Merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

LED Light Bulbs (Merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 09 Oct 2007, 05:42:01

I am hopefull this will lower the cost of LED's, they make Incandescents look like candles and CFL's look like kerosene lamps in terms of effeciency.

Not to mention they last 10 times longer but cost less than twice as much to manufacture.
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Re: GE to Phase Out Low-Efficiency Incandescents

Unread postby IslandCrow » Tue 09 Oct 2007, 06:23:39

Any one here using LEDs for general lighting?

I would like to use some on some cold stairways: In winter the CFL lights take too long to come on. I know I could use LED strips etc, but at this stage I don't want to rewire the house.
We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
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Re: GE to Phase Out Low-Efficiency Incandescents

Unread postby rdsaltpower » Tue 09 Oct 2007, 12:26:57

I use cfl's throughout my home but i wonder how many of the 1400 jobs will go offshore to China since i read an article that China was phasing out the incandesent bulb for cfl in their lighting factories? Everything else is being produced there. And further I will bet that when these cfls are "recycled" they will end up in third world countries disposed off illlegally just like the program I watched on computer disposal. The do-gooder recyclers in the usa end up dumping them on the third world. What a crock of green shit.
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Re: GE to Phase Out Low-Efficiency Incandescents

Unread postby veliger » Tue 09 Oct 2007, 14:57:50

I am converting to CFL’s as my incandescent’s burn out. BUT, I hope they fix the slow warm up time problem, some of my CFL’s take several minutes to come up to full intensity. This is simply unacceptable and very inconvenient. Looks like another technology not quite ready for prime time.
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Re: GE to Phase Out Low-Efficiency Incandescents

Unread postby rdsaltpower » Tue 09 Oct 2007, 15:12:33

I am interested in installing some led lighting. I am going to start small. I would like to build an led battery powered lamp for my computer desk. I would like to run it from a couple AA rechargables. I have three small solar panels from some old landscape lights that if wired in a series should charge the reusables. Any Ideas?
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Re: GE to Phase Out Low-Efficiency Incandescents

Unread postby JRP3 » Tue 09 Oct 2007, 18:17:53

veliger wrote:I am converting to CFL’s as my incandescent’s burn out. BUT, I hope they fix the slow warm up time problem, some of my CFL’s take several minutes to come up to full intensity. This is simply unacceptable and very inconvenient. Looks like another technology not quite ready for prime time.


You need to shop carefully and compare. Certain brands seem to have instant on while others don't. When I get some that don't come on instantly I put them in non critical locations.
The G.E. and Commercial Electric ones I have seem to come right on.
Some of the "cheapos" don't.
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Re: GE to Phase Out Low-Efficiency Incandescents

Unread postby WatchfulEye » Tue 09 Oct 2007, 19:43:03

This is interesting news, and really demonstrates that public sentiment is beginning to change.

LEDs have improved immensely in recent years, but still aren't ready for the primetime, I don't think. Warm white LEDs are now available, which give a much more pleasant white than the very blue cast that standard 'white' LEDs produce. However, one thing that LED really struggles with is colour quality - they are much, much worse than CFL, and although the warm white are better, colour accuracy is not a match for CFL.

The other problem with LEDs is variability - LED production is inherently a variable process, so you get a wide spectrum of colours, brightness levels and hues. This is quite obvious on the cheaper lamps as each individual LED is a different brightness and colour to its neighbours. More expensive lights may use carefully matched LEDs in one lamp fitting, but not necessarily be matched from one fitting to another.

Even LED efficiency is nothing to write home about today. LEDs that you can buy today are almost as good as CFLs, although prototypes have been demonstrated with significantly better efficiency.

My personal preference for lighting is conventional tube fluorescent. If you can get them, the modern 5/8" diameter tubes really are good (but haven't filtered down to the consumer mass market, they are 'professional' products, with professional performance but a professional price tag). Modern fluorescents are highly efficient (approx 105 lumens / Watt, compared to CFL which are about 60 lm/W), start quickly (approx 1 second), start at full brightness (no warm up time), have zero flicker, zero buzz/hum, accurately controlled colour variability and very good colour rendering, as well as producing a relatively glare free light due to the long shape.

Not only are conventional fluorescent more efficient than compact, but they also contain less mercury (CFLs are medium pressure lamps, so need a relatively large mercury charge and high temperature to generate the appropriate pressure) and last twice as long (15k hours for modern lamps).

If you do have rooms to light, and fluorescents would be appropriate - then they can be good. But you have to make sure you get modern tubes/fittings (electronic fittings and 'triphosphor' tubes), the cheapo ones on the mass market use the old 1950s technology, with 1950s performance (flicker, green skin syndrome, annoying flickering when bulbs burn out, etc.)
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Why the heck are LED bulbs still so expensive & weak?

Unread postby Narz » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 14:13:29

On amazon.com anyway LED bulbs cost pretty much what they cost one or two years ago. What gives?
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 14:21:10

Don't know, but I use LED string (rope) lights. :lol:
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby Narz » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 21:01:55

I got some really nice LED rope lights at Home Depot a couple years back. They ran me $70 and I returned them when I moved, not sure if they still sell 'em and at what price.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby zeke » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 21:31:30

try to find yourself something built around the K2..IIRC, this is a Luxeon product..

we bought a couple of bike helmet lights (rayovac) which use the K2..paid $20 each, they use 3 AA cels and put out a light that spanks most other LED rigs, even ones using 5 or more individual LED elements.

plus, the light it throws out is WHITE, not a wierd blue-gray, better-than-nothing light.

try to locate yourself some of these or anything built with a Luxeon star, and I would say you'd be happy with the result.

Now, I would love to see home lighting built around this LED...since what we bought was intended for use on a bike helmet, we've had to rig up zip ties and what not to make it sit and stay where we want it, but it's a very good LED element...worth the trouble to find.

zeke

PS.. a little googling will turn up results..we bought our units at Costco for $20 each, but this is the same thing on Amazon for $30. Still a screamin' deal for what you get in performance:

http://www.amazon.com/Rayovac-Highbeam- ... B000OSHJ98
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby lowem » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 22:15:17

I've got a couple of LED flashlights for SGD $5 each. The finishing isn't that fantastic (Made in China goods) but with multiple LED's (they've got around 9-10) they're pretty bright.

Still looking for some good LED lighting for the home. Ikea said they might be bringing in something along that line. Will see about that.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby kiwichick » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 05:38:01

this may be of interest

bluglass.com.au
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby seejay » Thu 26 Feb 2009, 00:33:58

LED lighting is improving rapidly both in quality and light output (lumens)
I prefer Cree or Nichia based lights for a warmer easier-on-the-eyes look.
Unfortunately there is a lot of junk out there too. Avoid those lights that have a whole bunch of LED's stuffed into the bulb or fixture---they can be inconsistent in light quality. LED's cost substantially more up front but last for many thousands of hours longer than incandescent/halogens and CFL.
The savings comes over time with no bulb changes and the large power savings.
Check http://www.vertelight.com for some nice fixtures and info.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby whereagles » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 19:03:28

Don't forget industry has to be careful with lastable products like those bulbs. Probably they can put out 10x brighter ones already but, if they do that, you won't be buying them more stuff for quite a while.

You have to put up with the usual "planned obscelency" scheme, i.e. something like

2010: 1 watt
2011: 2 watt
2012: 3 watt
2013: 5 watt
2014: 7 watt
2015: 10 watt

This should give them time to develop 20 watt bulbs, while cashing a few bucks in the process.

In short, it could be that bulbs are weakish ON PURPOSE.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby bencole » Mon 09 Mar 2009, 19:13:40

LED's are based on semiconductor technology, that is why they are more expensive than filament bulbs. In theory they should also be more robust, but because the heating from improper controlled current in some of the cheaper examples, their lifetime is shortened. The need to control the current precisely through the diode will probably always keep them more expensive then a filament which can handle a more variable current.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby IslandCrow » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 03:58:03

Expensive up front YES -the last ones I bought, on discount, cost me 55 Euros!

In the long term - even with high intial costs they will work out cheaper in the long run that CFT bulbs (provided they are well made). [As we plan for a PO world we need to start thinking in horizons of 10+ years rather than to the end of the next business quarter - so in this time frame LED bulbs as they are are one of the cheapest options going.]

A local producer is giving two-year guarantees. That is good as some cheap ones I bought didn't last a year.

Last year I bought a 1W bulb - OK, but not great light, although the human eye is designed for a more white light (ie closer to day light) than the old more yellowy bulbs, and one can navigate quite well in low light if it is close to day light.

The recent bulbs I bought were rated at 8W (although the salesman said they were closer to 6W), and are working fine for visiblity on staircases. They are better than the old 40W bulbs they replaced.

One further advantage of LED over CFT is that they come on immediately in cold areas, and as the stairways in my house are much colder than the rest of the living areas it is nice to be able to see, rather than wait in the cold for the light to warm up enough to shed some decent light.
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 07:59:08

I bought about a dozen 40watt-rated LED bulbs in October ($5.80 ea) and have already had 3 of the burn out, in regular light outlets (NOT dimmer switch)

I can deal with the weaker light but it is frustrating when you pay more and they are supposed to last longer, and they last shorter!
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Re: Why the heck are LED bulbs still so damn expensive & weak?

Unread postby vision-master » Tue 10 Mar 2009, 09:01:23

rangerone314 wrote:I bought about a dozen 40watt-rated LED bulbs in October ($5.80 ea) and have already had 3 of the burn out, in regular light outlets (NOT dimmer switch)

I can deal with the weaker light but it is frustrating when you pay more and they are supposed to last longer, and they last shorter!


You can get fluorescent bulbs for dimmer switches now.
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