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Nate 33, I think you are right in this, but only in the case that you heat your house with electriciity directly

The energy savings is close to zero for 3-9 months a year (depending on the climate).

Although a few countries have abundant, fossil-free electriciity (like Norway has hydro) and therefore heat their houses with electric radiators combined with thermostats, this applies to very few worldwide.

If you heat your house in any way that is cheaper or more eneryefficient than electric radiators, the heat from lamps is mostly a waste.

There are also today some houses built that are supposed to be superefficient and so well isolated, that you supposedly need no other heating than what you get 'free' from appliances and cooking. In those houses I suppose you rely on the heat from your electric light also.

- And then of course there are summertimes with excessive indoor heat. It takes a lot more energy to cool air one degree than to heat it one degree.

nocar

if you look at Passivehaus, Gold standard of AECB or the new code 6 rating of the UK building regs. (I am sure there are comparable standards across the world) you end up with a house that actually doesn't need heating in winter as the Heat ventilation system will use the excess heat in the bathrooms, kitchens etc to redistribute. It also (if the house is orientated correctly) reduces the level of overheating in the summer (although i still advocate tree shading, external blinds and earth pipes but hey)

On this basis the use of CFL's is compelling as the heat from the current lightbulbs would simply cause either the house to overheat (last thing you want is an unwanted internal heat source in a heavily insulated house) or replace the HV system energy inefficently.

Switching to CFL and LED will materially reduce the amount of Kw psm a house will use.

Low energy LED bulbs to last 100 years

The lighting industry is working on a 'third generation' of energy-efficient light bulbs that are designed to last a lifetime.

Already in use outdoors and in some shops and galleries, the environment friendly light-emitting diode bulbs that can go without replacement for up to 100 years will be in most new homes by 2011.

According to Keven Verdun, chief executive of The Lighting Association, the LEDs will be the ultimate low-energy bulb and will become the norm.

thisismoney

The "long-lasting" LEDs used in traffic signals these days ain't werf shit.
Very few (<20%) of the lights I've seen are 100% lit; many have banks of 20-30 LEDs that aren't working at all, and this is not just one city, it's dozens that I travel through all over this part of the country.

So, will this be more of the same?

Graeme wrote:Low energy LED bulbs to last 100 years

The lighting industry is working on a 'third generation' of energy-efficient light bulbs that are designed to last a lifetime.

Already in use outdoors and in some shops and galleries, the environment friendly light-emitting diode bulbs that can go without replacement for up to 100 years will be in most new homes by 2011.

According to Keven Verdun, chief executive of The Lighting Association, the LEDs will be the ultimate low-energy bulb and will become the norm.

thisismoney

6.7 billion people it's a huge market massive. Every 1st, 2nd and 3rd worlder can have one.

It's time to invest this is sweet gravy and biscuit at its best.

emersonbiggins wrote:The "long-lasting" LEDs used in traffic signals these days ain't werf shit.
Very few (<20%) of the lights I've seen are 100% lit; many have banks of 20-30 LEDs that aren't working at all, and this is not just one city, it's dozens that I travel through all over this part of the country.

So, will this be more of the same?

If whole banks have failed, then I think the support circuitry rather than the LEDs is suspect.

That is however irrelevant post PO ... if the circuits which drive the 100-year lamps only last 10 years then you have ... a 10-year lifetime lamp module.

and unlike fluorescent bulbs, LED's will probably turn out to be much cheaper than incandescents

it's indeed a big step towards energy efficiency considering that lighting is still a very big part of our overall electricity bill.

A good LED thread always brightens my day....

I'm using LED lighting right now, mostly. Kind of a cold light.

vision-master wrote:I'm using LED lighting right now, mostly. Kind of a cold light.

they'll probably improve on that too, fluorescents used to be like that too...

We've been using LED exit lights at the university where I work, for about 10 years (major campus wide retrofit, plus use in all new construction), and I have seen only a couple failures out of thousands of units. Haven't noticed ANY traffic light failures--maybe cooler Wisconsin temps makes a difference? We are now using a few LED lights in specific locations in the house where they make sense, and have gotten some "warm white" LED lamps that are a pleasan yellower light.

But there is also new CFL technology becoming more available--smaller diameter tubes in the spiral of the lamp, dimmable on "regular" dimmer switches, and a very nice light color. I'm getting some of them, will use the 5 watt in bedside reading lamps to replace the 25 or 40 watt incandescents that we have been using because we need the style of lamp to hold the lamp shade in the fixtures that my wife likes.

SoothSayer wrote:

emersonbiggins wrote:The "long-lasting" LEDs used in traffic signals these days ain't werf shit.
Very few (<20%) of the lights I've seen are 100% lit; many have banks of 20-30 LEDs that aren't working at all, and this is not just one city, it's dozens that I travel through all over this part of the country.

So, will this be more of the same?

If whole banks have failed, then I think the support circuitry rather than the LEDs is suspect.

That is however irrelevant post PO ... if the circuits which drive the 100-year lamps only last 10 years then you have ... a 10-year lifetime lamp module.

That's what I suspect as well, because all the dim LEDs are contiguous in every case that I'm aware of, but arranged in no noticeable pattern. I saw a crescent moon burnt out in one signal in Fort Worth, but many take on the pattern of bullet holes. As you were saying, this is most likely a circuitry problem, so that would obviously be the limiting factor in the usage of LEDs in outdoor settings.

LEDs used indoors in controlled environments likely would last the rated usage life.

If you expect the grid and everything to go down, it might be wise to stock up on these though, a long with solar panels I suspect they will become priceless in such a scenario (I'm not an adherent of the total collapse soon -scenario myself though)

WisJim wrote:But there is also new CFL technology becoming more available--smaller diameter tubes in the spiral of the lamp, dimmable on "regular" dimmer switches, and a very nice light color. I'm getting some of them, will use the 5 watt in bedside reading lamps to replace the 25 or 40 watt incandescents that we have been using because we need the style of lamp to hold the lamp shade in the fixtures that my wife likes.

I'm interested. Link? Are they available now?

Thanks,

-G

This "solution" to the coming herd of crises facing industrial civilization is like all other high tech gambits for mitigation-- spitting into the wind. The cost of money intensive and infrastructure intensive little "fixes" only distract us from what should be our real endeavors: Making large changes in our lifestyles; learning low tech and sustainable survival techniques.

Post some of those.

Bas wrote:If you expect the grid and everything to go down, it might be wise to stock up on these though, a long with solar panels I suspect they will become priceless in such a scenario (I'm not an adherent of the total collapse soon -scenario myself though)

China (eh4y) sells 50 packs of different colored LCDs for $15 shipped, and 5000 SM resistors (small SOBs, but great price) of different ratings for about the same IIRC. The current requirement is small they can driven off of a buncha relatively cheap sources. Rechargeable batteries connected to wind, solar, or even hand cranking. Maybe peltier devices? Etc...

I'd be more than happy to switch to these, as soon as the price comes down a bit.

CFLs just hit the price I'm willing to pay (and are available in 5500K color temperature locally), so I'm switching to those a couple a month.

There are also a few places working on "LED Flourescent Tubes"

Although nice an convenient (although you have to remove the ballast to run 120V AC straight to them) and not ridiculously priced (they do have a ROI) take note of the light output. These things produce about half the light of a regular fluorescent tube. This is also typical of most LED replacement bulbs. They often only have half the brightness of the bulb they are suppose to replace.

My experience with the new generation of LEDs has shown me that the technology has to mature a bit more. I often find the bulbs to be inconsistent in their specifications, and my whites are burning out all over the place (despite driving them below their maximum current)

There is also a matter of cost effectiveness. CFLs already have long lifespans and reduce power consumption by 75%. How much is that extra lifespan and power savings really worth.

That being said they certainly have good role to play in off grid, Emergency and portable lighting.

Also to mention as far as EROEI and stuff like that goes, LEDs are one of the simplest of electronic components to produce. The cost of Superbright LEDs ($1.00ea) should eventually come down to the cost of regular LEDs ($0.01ea). Add a capacitor, limiting resistor and a base (no glass required) and viola, you have a bulb.


actually just looked around and found some on ebay for pennies each. A hell of a lot less than what I've paid for them

WisJim wrote:... Haven't noticed ANY traffic light failures--maybe cooler Wisconsin temps makes a difference? ...

Probably. Heat is the long-life-limiter of both semiconductor devices and the plastic housings where you normally find them encased.

Since someone asked about the newer CFLs, here are some links:
http://www.1000bulbs.com/Litetronics-Microbrite/
http://www.drillspot.com/category/11300 ... andid=3612
The ones that I saw recently at a trade show were available in a light colr similar to incandescents and dimmed nicely with a regular dimmer. I hope to do a side-by-side comparison of actual power usage soon, and will try to post results in a new thread.

100 years?

I've been trying them out in my kitchen and so far, in 10 months, I've replaced 4 of them.

Anyway, OLED is in the pipeline to come next.