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History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Ruppert

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History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Ruppert

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 29 Jan 2011, 22:03:58

A relative called me, in a panic, going on about how the oil is going to run out and we "have no future." I've never discussed peak oil with her. Anyhow she told me to turn on History Channel, and here's Mike Ruppert. Looks good so far.. Ruppert might be going mainstream.

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Today's world has troubles unique to its time in history, from the global financial crisis to technological meltdowns to full scale, computerized global war. Observing the convergence of such events, contemporary prophets have begun to emerge from obscurity to suggest that these conditions might be signs of the demise of the modern world. These men are historians as well, using all manner of information and patterns from the past to provide context for where we are going.

Their predictions interpret the current state of affairs in our world as evidence that the America we know may come to an end. The men proposing these ideas are not crackpots living on the streets of New York; they are intelligent, learned men who come armed with the evidence to back up their claims.
http://shop.history.com/detail.php?p=291023&v=history&ecid=PRF-2103964&pa=PRF-2103964


Man this is a trip, Ruppert's not sugarcoating anything, just laying it all out there right on History channel.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby mos6507 » Sat 29 Jan 2011, 23:21:45

Depends on what you mean by "mainstream". How many people saw Earth 2100? That was prime time ABC doomer porn. Came and went with a whimper. Ruppert's Collapse got a glowing review from Roger Ebert. People's attention spans are so short that they'll freak out one moment and go back to sleep the next.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Xenophobe » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 00:05:46

Sixstrings wrote:Man this is a trip, Ruppert's not sugarcoating anything, just laying it all out there right on History channel.


Baloney. He doesn't tell you any of the nonsense he has been predicting over the years, including last summers crash which didn't happen. Or Dec 31st, 2010 DOW being under 4000.

The show was a joke, although Kunstler did come off pretty amusingly.

The water guy was the best, but of course, he was an actual professor or some such versus someone trying to sell books or website subscriptions.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 00:15:44

Xenophobe wrote:The water guy was the best, but of course, he was an actual professor or some such versus someone trying to sell books or website subscriptions.


So we can count you as a water doomer at least? That's progress, Xeno. :lol:
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Xenophobe » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 00:33:53

Sixstrings wrote:
Xenophobe wrote:The water guy was the best, but of course, he was an actual professor or some such versus someone trying to sell books or website subscriptions.


So we can count you as a water doomer at least? That's progress, Xeno. :lol:


I watched the whole thing. Took notes. The Terminator guy seemed a bit sci-fi, the "terrorists have nukes!" guy didn't seem all that strange, the TOD representative was a disaster and shows how poorly internet denizens appear without an echo chamber around them, Kunstler seemed like an irritated little man with psychological energy crisis issues from the 70's, being scared by empty interstates and all, Ruppert was pretty much his normal self with additional wise nodding, and occasional bursts of "as an ex-cop" which at least is more accurate than his "as an ex-detective" routine, so yeah, the water guy at least came across as reasonable.

Now...park a desalination plant by an ocean and I don't think his concerns are all that warranted, but his angle was reasonable, different than you normally hear in peak oil land at least, and held up to a cursory examination. Probably no more valid in the long run than the others because of the sheer volumes of water this planet has (with more on the way! go warming!) but certainly worth considering.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby scas » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 00:41:31

mos6507 wrote:Depends on what you mean by "mainstream". How many people saw Earth 2100? That was prime time ABC doomer porn. Came and went with a whimper. Ruppert's Collapse got a glowing review from Roger Ebert. People's attention spans are so short that they'll freak out one moment and go back to sleep the next.


What did you think of Earth 2100? I thought it was extremely an extremely optimistic outlook of things to come. If we follow that trajectory, I won't complain.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby scas » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 00:45:59

Xenophobe wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:Man this is a trip, Ruppert's not sugarcoating anything, just laying it all out there right on History channel.


Baloney. He doesn't tell you any of the nonsense he has been predicting over the years, including last summers crash which didn't happen. Or Dec 31st, 2010 DOW being under 4000.


That's right. If someone makes a false prediction, then everything they say is bunk. :roll:

Similar faulty logic...because Malthus was wrong on his predicted date and was unaware of the green revolution, then he is wrong indefinitely.

I imagine if a terminal patient lives past his expected range, then he is considered immortal too.

Now...park a desalination plant by an ocean and I don't think his concerns are all that warranted, but his angle was reasonable, different than you normally hear in peak oil land at least, and held up to a cursory examination. Probably no more valid in the long run than the others because of the sheer volumes of water this planet has (with more on the way! go warming!)


Wow...your thought processes certainly are unique.
Last edited by scas on Sun 30 Jan 2011, 00:58:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Xenophobe » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 00:53:22

scas wrote:
Xenophobe wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:Man this is a trip, Ruppert's not sugarcoating anything, just laying it all out there right on History channel.


Baloney. He doesn't tell you any of the nonsense he has been predicting over the years, including last summers crash which didn't happen. Or Dec 31st, 2010 DOW being under 4000.


That's right. If someone makes a false prediction, then everything they say is bunk. :roll:


Not at all. Hubbert, for example, certainly made bad predictions, yet his other scientific work is considered top notch. But when you ONLY see a Doom which never arrives, well, that's just feeding someone's hopes and dreams, has nothing to do with an actual Doom around the corner.

Ruppert has multiple problems with his prognostication abilities, not the least of which is that proclaiming the end of the world is how he makes his living. Certainly wouldn't EVER be in his interest to not see Doom right around the corner, right?
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 01:29:12

The History Channel will show anything they think will sell (Ads and DVD's, I suppose). They show all kinds of silly 2012 end of the world stuff, all kinds of stuff related to Nostrodomus, and every crackpot sideshow you can imagine.
They show it breathlessly narrated, like we should all be real concerned.

They also show a lot of real interesting and educational documentary and real history type of stuff too. Interestingly, that stuff is generally shown in a more relaxed and/or scientific vein. Catering to the audience, I guess.

Unfortunately, given this reputation, it may be REAL hard for the audience to tell if something like Ruppert talking about Peak Oil is reasonable or pure speculative/propogandist bunk. Given the "Prophets of Doom" theme - I lean toward believing they are selling it in the propoganda format. (Of course, if he's preaching the "real doom, real soon" message, IMO, it deserves a certain amount of eye rolling).

It's unfortunate. I used to really respect the History channel, but they sold out, devoting much of their programming to BS to raise ratings and revenue.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Xenophobe » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 01:34:16

Outcast_Searcher wrote:They show it breathlessly narrated, like we should all be real concerned.


Certainly covers Prophets of Doom. I thought the cutouts to some of the Prophets wise nodding and the brow furrowing interest shots to be hysterical. And TOD needs a better pitchman.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby scas » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 01:36:49

Outcast_Searcher wrote: I used to really respect the History channel, but they sold out, devoting much of their programming to BS to raise ratings and revenue.


This thought can be applied to almost all aspects of modern civilization. We sold our environment, fellow species, and the future generations well being for $$$.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 10:35:29

scas wrote:What did you think of Earth 2100? I thought it was extremely an extremely optimistic outlook of things to come. If we follow that trajectory, I won't complain.


Remember that the Back to the Future-style turning point, towards doom or ecotopia, had to do with a theoretical global climate conference, something that bore a striking resemblance to Nopenhagen, and we know how that turned out.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby hillsidedigger » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 10:48:10

"Earth 2100" was overly optimistic even though as I recall they portrayed a tremendous oil-shock as soon as 2016.

Where I think they missed it was by predicting that a hundred million desperate Mexicans would not storm into the United States until the late 2040's and be met by machine-gun fire. That will happen much sooner.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 17:15:33

Outcast_Searcher wrote:Unfortunately, given this reputation, it may be REAL hard for the audience to tell if something like Ruppert talking about Peak Oil is reasonable or pure speculative/propogandist bunk. Given the "Prophets of Doom" theme - I lean toward believing they are selling it in the propoganda format. (Of course, if he's preaching the "real doom, real soon" message, IMO, it deserves a certain amount of eye rolling).


Well that's true. History channel is mostly trash these days. It's all illuminati, masons, ancient alien astronauts, and now they have some kind of "decoded" show with a guy running around Georgia finding "signs" in stones or something. :roll:

The crap on History is so bad I can't even watch it for laughs, it's just sad. :( It's offensive to me, history is very interesting all on it's own you don't have to make sh*t up. What are they aiming for, Wingnut Channel?

I like Pawn Stars though. :)

Having said that, this Prophets of Doom show was really well done. Sure they had the scary music in there, and the old trick of interviewing people while they're driving (as if they're running from something lol). But this time they got a hold of some real doom with people who know what they're talking about.. maybe the producers didn't expect that, but at least they went with it and did a good job. If they wanted to make peakers look like wingnuts, they could have -- but they didn't. So they get props for that.

Only problem with the show is maybe too much different Doom packed in.. peak oil is enough for two hours, you don't need to lump in water doom, artificial intelligence doom, economic doom and nuke bomb doom too. But then most of these dooms tie in together and that's why we talk about them all on this forum. Certainly the unfolding economic crash, water issues, and peak oil are all tied in and coming at us all at once.

Interestingly, Climate Change Doom wasn't included. It was mentioned very briefly in passing a couple times but that's it.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 17:21:33

Sixstrings wrote:Interestingly, Climate Change Doom wasn't included. It was mentioned very briefly in passing a couple times but that's it.


They know their redneck end-timer wingnut demographic isn't into it, I guess.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 17:32:07

Xenophobe wrote:The Terminator guy seemed a bit sci-fi,


I forget his credentials, but I seem to recall the AI guy is a scientist actually working in this field, not an amateur doom flake. I think the whole panel were mainstream experts except for Kunstler and Ruppert (correction: the nuke doom guy is the editor of TOR books).

About the AI doom.. the guy knows what's he talking about, and it's food for thought, but honestly that's like fifty - a hundred years from now doom. On a practical level, I just don't see "robots turning on us" ever being a problem. The only problem I see there would be from weaponized robotics -- that's going to be a game changer and will most likely lead to more totalitarian societies (it's one thing for a protester to stand up to a human cop, but a robot has no emotion or human decency -- robots will carry out the orders of their controller).

But robots collectively turning on humanity? That's unlikely.. every step of the way programmers will include "kill switches" and humans will always have ultimate control. It's not like complete control of everything would ever be turned over to one particular master program. That wouldn't even be good programming -- you WANT some decentralization since that's a more stable system.

And ultimately, there will be more of us than them for a long time and software / robots are more vulnerable than we are. They MUST have a BAU grid to survive, whereas humans can make it in the rough.

so yeah, the water guy at least came across as reasonable.


That was an eye-opener. But I just can't get too far into "water doom," I mean I have lakes and rivers within walking distance. The river might be brackish, but further upstream it's fresh. I guess he's imagining an America with an India-like concentration of people.. given our size that would mean two billion.

Lots of good info on the water though, for one thing I didn't know something like 19 million Americans get sick from their water every year. On the other hand, if it's that bad here then how do the Mexicans and Indians survive? Their water is a lot worse.

He also pointed out that our treatment plants just aren't designed to filter a lot of stuff out. So we're taking in pharmaceuticals, all kinds of crap. Even fish has caffeine in it now, which comes from our human waste ultimately making it's way into lakes and rivers.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby scas » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 18:50:47

I just watched the show. I actually found it quite interesting, it reminded me of Sir Martin Rees' Our Final Century. Worth a watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qF26MbYgOA

Odd that they didn't mention CC. I know they're all aware of it. Maybe its because they said its 20-30 years in the future. Psychological distancing?
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Xenophobe » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 19:51:08

Sixstrings wrote:
Xenophobe wrote:The Terminator guy seemed a bit sci-fi,


I forget his credentials, but I seem to recall the AI guy is a scientist actually working in this field, not an amateur doom flake. I think the whole panel were mainstream experts except for Kunstler and Ruppert (correction: the nuke doom guy is the editor of TOR books).


Yup...the sci-fi guy had credentials. I thought he was a bit sci-fi though. Why they get amateurs like Kunstler and Ruppert in there to talk about oil though, makes you wonder.

Sixstrings wrote:
so yeah, the water guy at least came across as reasonable.


He also pointed out that our treatment plants just aren't designed to filter a lot of stuff out. So we're taking in pharmaceuticals, all kinds of crap. Even fish has caffeine in it now, which comes from our human waste ultimately making it's way into lakes and rivers.


I thought that was an interesting point as well. Hadn't heard it before.
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 20:31:46

Found a youtube link that appears to be the whole program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSpLUpiMkj0

It's posted by a Ron Paul supporter.. I have no idea why he has a "propaganda" warning pasted on the video. :?:
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Re: History Channel's "Prophets of Doom," featuring Mike Rup

Unread postby Xenophobe » Sun 30 Jan 2011, 20:43:59

Sixstrings wrote:Found a youtube link that appears to be the whole program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSpLUpiMkj0

It's posted by a Ron Paul supporter.. I have no idea why he has a "propaganda" warning pasted on the video. :?:


For the peak oil part of course.
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