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Universal Basic Income (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 23 Feb 2022, 20:02:50

Pops wrote:....it was Biden's fault


There's no getting around the fact that (1) Joe Biden is president and (2) lots of bad things like repeated foreign policy mistake abroad and inflation here at home are happening because of Joe Biden's stupid policies and his inability to think clearly and speak clearly.

Anyone paying attention could see that Joe Biden is undergoing cognitive decline even before the 2020 election, and its gotten worse since he became president. Putin was paying attention.....Putin knows Biden is senile and incompetent, and so Putin decided this would be a good time to invade Ukraine and start another cold war.

Joe Biden wasn't a smart man before he became senile ----who will ever forget Joe getting caught plagiarizing an entire campaign speech---- but he's really lost a lot of ground since then.

The poor man can hardly speak now. When Joe gives a speech he reads laboriously from a giant teleprompter screen.....stumbling incoherently over worlds of more than one syllable.......and then Joe flees from the podium after his speech mumbling that "they" won't let him take questions now. Even when he does an interview one-on-one with a reporter Joe has to have a teleprompter running to tell him what to say because his little brain just doesn't work anymore.

Image
Joe needs a G I A N T teleprompter screen to tell him what to say even when he's talking one-on-one with a reporter for an interview----the man is an embarrassment!!

Biden has turned the presidency of the USA into a pathetic spectacle.....

SHEESH!
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 24 Feb 2022, 06:55:29

If you know my argument against badly done UBI, then you know how important inflation is to the concept. The money supply depends upon people's economic activity to determine its size. People borrow money to take chances in life. The system evaluates their risks, and loans them money or not. The money supply is determined by that borrowing. That is what UBI can't destroy, or replace. It's supposed to be about taking care of those who don't fit anymore, not replacing the economic driver.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 24 Feb 2022, 15:31:05

Plantagenet wrote:
Pops wrote:....it was Biden's fault


There's no getting around the fact that (1) Joe Biden is president and (2) lots of bad things like repeated foreign policy mistake abroad and inflation here at home are happening because of Joe Biden's stupid policies and his inability to think clearly and speak clearly.

Red font mine, for emphasis.

Ah, the Planty idiocy. Biden didn't cause Covid-19 (which is the primary reason for the inflation spike), any more than people driving BEV's are causing a pandemic of new cancer cases (re your former clams that BEV batteries cause cancer).

But you can't help yourself, re your endless spewing of false political drivel.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 24 Feb 2022, 15:33:54

vtsnowedin wrote:
Pops wrote:you just said it was Biden's fault

Yes for the total decline in domestic production. The Bakken figures are a small part of that but given time he will destroy that production as well. $4.00+ gas is totally his fault and if you are not paying that today wait two weeks.

So it's Biden's fault re Putin invading Ukraine?

So Biden controls the total global oil production for all countries?

Politics spurs pure insanity in so many folks...
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Fri 25 Feb 2022, 14:03:37

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Pops wrote:you just said it was Biden's fault

Yes for the total decline in domestic production. The Bakken figures are a small part of that but given time he will destroy that production as well. $4.00+ gas is totally his fault and if you are not paying that today wait two weeks.


So it's Biden's fault re Putin invading Ukraine?

Absolutely. The Afghanistan debacle emboldened Putin.
So Biden controls the total global oil production for all countries?

Never said that. He has deliberately depressed production here in the USA and that subtracts from the total world supply. Other countries are either unable or unwilling to raise their production to make up the loss of that American oil hence prices rise.
Politics spurs pure insanity in so many folks...

Yes especially among liberal Democrats.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Tue 01 Mar 2022, 22:36:10

Research headed by the University of NSW and released on Wednesday reveals the coronavirus supplement and the JobKeeper program were key factors in pushing the proportion of Australians living in poverty below 10 per cent. It had been 11.8 per cent in 2019.

Research headed by the University of NSW and released on Wednesday reveals the coronavirus supplement and the JobKeeper program were key factors in pushing the proportion of Australians living in poverty below 10 per cent.
It had been 11.8 per cent in 2019.

Charities and social welfare organisations noted a sharp fall in financial pressures early in the COVID recession as the federal government put in place the $1500-a-fortnight JobKeeper wage subsidy and the coronavirus supplement, which was worth $550 a fortnight to people on welfare payments including JobSeeker.

The impact of the various COVID-19 support measures on overall incomes was evident in the research, with only high-income earners suffering a fall in after-tax incomes in 2020.

“The COVID-19 pandemic has taught us that poverty and inequality are not an inevitable state of being. They grow because government policies allow them to, and in many cases, directly increase them,”

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 5a0jd.html
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 05 Mar 2022, 10:34:53

In America, the issue is about what the minimum wage should be. Not the official minimum wage, but the one arrived at by the market for jobs. Tensions are flying because $10 an hour suddenly just doesn't cut it anymore, and the established norms over what to pay aren't keeping up. Market forces are at work. Per usual, the Fed is getting involved. It's about time. We'll see if they have any more enlightened things to do than ever before, or if they can just cram the square peg into the round hole. It's worked before.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 05 Mar 2022, 11:12:00

Shaved Monkey wrote:“The COVID-19 pandemic has taught us that poverty and inequality are not an inevitable state of being. They grow because government policies allow them to, and in many cases, directly increase them,”

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 5a0jd.html

The problem is that the government cannot keep making those extra payments indefinitely. The tax bill will come due and the same class of people getting the payments now will pay it in taxes or lost opportunity later.
A one time program during a short term crisis is one thing but a never ending program is quite another.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 06 Mar 2022, 01:16:14

evilgenius wrote:In America, the issue is about what the minimum wage should be. Not the official minimum wage, but the one arrived at by the market for jobs. Tensions are flying because $10 an hour suddenly just doesn't cut it anymore, and the established norms over what to pay aren't keeping up. Market forces are at work. Per usual, the Fed is getting involved. It's about time. We'll see if they have any more enlightened things to do than ever before, or if they can just cram the square peg into the round hole. It's worked before.


The problem with this theory is pretty basic. Person A living in NYC or LA has living expenses an order of magnitude greater than person B living in small town Kansas or the northern tier where there are more square miles of grazing land than humans present. In between you can have situation where if you live on the south side of Eight Mile road you are in Detroit with one set of expenses and if you are on the north side of the road you are in the suburbs with very different expenses and condition. Life is not all on one set in the very geographically diverse USA and having a federal minimum wage can be a boon in poor regions but an insult in more expensive regions. One size does NOT fit all situations. Even a state wide minimum wage has a similar effect because rural life and city life are very different. A lot of small town employers would quickly go out of business paying city wages but on the flip side the rents and expenses in the rural zones are much lower so a lower wage is still a living wage.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 06 Mar 2022, 06:56:24

Other then rent and parking fees what things do you think are cheaper in the rural areas? Gas, automobiles, appliances, cell phones, cable bills, hamburger?
The idea that the country dweller can live on the cheap is far from true.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby Pops » Sun 06 Mar 2022, 11:18:24

Housing is a third and transportation a quarter of the average budget, so working from a home in the country, in the middle of the country can be vastly cheaper than living in the city or near and commuting, Let alone living on the coasts.

The trade off is lower wage, fewer amenities and if you still work in the city, no savings on transport.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 06 Mar 2022, 12:49:07

Pops wrote:Housing is a third and transportation a quarter of the average budget, so working from a home in the country, in the middle of the country can be vastly cheaper than living in the city or near and commuting, Let alone living on the coasts.

The trade off is lower wage, fewer amenities and if you still work in the city, no savings on transport.

Housing in the country is less, but not free and you often have to pay your own utilities and provide for water and septic on your own dime. Also country living for working people often contains a long daily commute to work in a private car which will run you $250 a week for a 50 mile one way commute all cost including gas considered. So housing drops to a quarter and transportation becomes a third so it can be close to a wash except salaries are less in the country which is why people move to the cities or at least they used to.
Now if you want to live in a tar paper shack in the Mississippi delta and grow or hunt for all your food you might achieve a "vast savings" but the chances are slim you would want to do that. :)
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 06 Mar 2022, 12:58:01

vtsnowedin wrote:Other then rent and parking fees what things do you think are cheaper in the rural areas? Gas, automobiles, appliances, cell phones, cable bills, hamburger?
The idea that the country dweller can live on the cheap is far from true.


What Pops said. When my mother retired to rural Missouri in 1989 her property taxes went from $300/year in Michigan rural farm country to $14.00/year in rural farm country. There was no cable TV in either location and cell phones had not been mass distributed yet but the landline phone was about half the cost. Insurance for her car fell from circa $600/year to $100/year because risk of accident was so much lower and costs for repairs was significantly lower because mechanics wages was significantly lower.

I could go on but hopefully my point is pretty clear by now.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 06 Mar 2022, 13:34:18

Tanada wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Other then rent and parking fees what things do you think are cheaper in the rural areas? Gas, automobiles, appliances, cell phones, cable bills, hamburger?
The idea that the country dweller can live on the cheap is far from true.


What Pops said. When my mother retired to rural Missouri in 1989 her property taxes went from $300/year in Michigan rural farm country to $14.00/year in rural farm country. There was no cable TV in either location and cell phones had not been mass distributed yet but the landline phone was about half the cost. Insurance for her car fell from circa $600/year to $100/year because risk of accident was so much lower and costs for repairs was significantly lower because mechanics wages was significantly lower.

I could go on but hopefully my point is pretty clear by now.

Well you don't have to pay for services you don't get but I paid $3376 in property taxes last year and $1363 to insure two vehicles with two senor drivers with average driving records. Electricity runs about $125 a month, Land line phone $125 Two cell phones $135, Dish TV $140 and the usual two trips to the super market $225 each . Oil changes at Jiffy lube $50 to $85 depending on oil type. Repair costs a re significantly higher because winter and spring mud seasons inflict dramatically higher wear and tear on the cars undercarriage not to mention the road salt on the state roads. And then there is the beer ,wine and spirits budget about, $275 a month. :oops:
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby Doly » Wed 09 Mar 2022, 17:35:07

Life is not all on one set in the very geographically diverse USA and having a federal minimum wage can be a boon in poor regions but an insult in more expensive regions.


But a minimum wage is still a floor that can be useful. Nobody is telling any employer that they must pay their employees the minimum wage, just that they can't pay less than that.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 10 Mar 2022, 05:53:36

Doly wrote:
Life is not all on one set in the very geographically diverse USA and having a federal minimum wage can be a boon in poor regions but an insult in more expensive regions.


But a minimum wage is still a floor that can be useful. Nobody is telling any employer that they must pay their employees the minimum wage, just that they can't pay less than that.

Yes by definition, but it can only work well if it is worldwide so the employer can't ship the job over seas to some fifty cent a day sweatshop.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 10 Mar 2022, 07:27:48

Tanada wrote:
evilgenius wrote:In America, the issue is about what the minimum wage should be. Not the official minimum wage, but the one arrived at by the market for jobs. Tensions are flying because $10 an hour suddenly just doesn't cut it anymore, and the established norms over what to pay aren't keeping up. Market forces are at work. Per usual, the Fed is getting involved. It's about time. We'll see if they have any more enlightened things to do than ever before, or if they can just cram the square peg into the round hole. It's worked before.


The problem with this theory is pretty basic. Person A living in NYC or LA has living expenses an order of magnitude greater than person B living in small town Kansas or the northern tier where there are more square miles of grazing land than humans present. In between you can have situation where if you live on the south side of Eight Mile road you are in Detroit with one set of expenses and if you are on the north side of the road you are in the suburbs with very different expenses and condition. Life is not all on one set in the very geographically diverse USA and having a federal minimum wage can be a boon in poor regions but an insult in more expensive regions. One size does NOT fit all situations. Even a state wide minimum wage has a similar effect because rural life and city life are very different. A lot of small town employers would quickly go out of business paying city wages but on the flip side the rents and expenses in the rural zones are much lower so a lower wage is still a living wage.


The way it works in America is that the states which are not on top see their populations hollowed out. America is like that, it has a lot of movement between regions. America is not a country where everybody grows up in a place and spends their entire life there. Some people do. Enough don't.

As a result, poor states stay poor. Since there is no official story to the movement, as well, it is like the people voting. The successful states tend to stay successful. They tend to gather large populations of people. There is more going on in them economically. There is a critical mass of diversity that promotes a level of growth that, sometimes, has a greater rate of growth than what the background rate would be without that stimulation. That sort of thing is iffy, though. It can be restricted by politics, and the dampening effect that Cretinism can have upon such a thing.
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 10 Mar 2022, 10:27:36

evilgenius wrote:
The way it works in America is that the states which are not on top see their populations hollowed out. America is like that, it has a lot of movement between regions. America is not a country where everybody grows up in a place and spends their entire life there. Some people do. Enough don't.

As a result, poor states stay poor. Since there is no official story to the movement, as well, it is like the people voting. The successful states tend to stay successful. They tend to gather large populations of people. There is more going on in them economically. There is a critical mass of diversity that promotes a level of growth that, sometimes, has a greater rate of growth than what the background rate would be without that stimulation. That sort of thing is iffy, though. It can be restricted by politics, and the dampening effect that Cretinism can have upon such a thing.

That must be why all those people are moving out of New York.
The Empire State’s July 1, 2020 population of 19,336,776 was down 126,355, or 0.65 percent, from the estimated level of a year earlier, the estimates indicate. In both absolute and percentage terms, New York’s population drop in 2019-20 was the biggest among 16 states.

https://www.empirecenter.org/publicatio ... n-decline/
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Re: Universal Basic Income (merged)

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 12 Mar 2022, 11:48:48

vtsnowedin wrote:
evilgenius wrote:
The way it works in America is that the states which are not on top see their populations hollowed out. America is like that, it has a lot of movement between regions. America is not a country where everybody grows up in a place and spends their entire life there. Some people do. Enough don't.

As a result, poor states stay poor. Since there is no official story to the movement, as well, it is like the people voting. The successful states tend to stay successful. They tend to gather large populations of people. There is more going on in them economically. There is a critical mass of diversity that promotes a level of growth that, sometimes, has a greater rate of growth than what the background rate would be without that stimulation. That sort of thing is iffy, though. It can be restricted by politics, and the dampening effect that Cretinism can have upon such a thing.

That must be why all those people are moving out of New York.
The Empire State’s July 1, 2020 population of 19,336,776 was down 126,355, or 0.65 percent, from the estimated level of a year earlier, the estimates indicate. In both absolute and percentage terms, New York’s population drop in 2019-20 was the biggest among 16 states.

https://www.empirecenter.org/publicatio ... n-decline/

That's exactly why. Markets work in both directions. This one, also, doesn't care about politics. Well, it sort of doesn't. Everything people do is complicated. Nothing happens in a vacuum. The Dakotas are an example of how it works the other way too.
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