[deMolay]

I thought they said the GREATEST RECESSION was over. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... lapse.html

[patience]

Read that. They seem to think that Japan is on the brink because of their debt ratio. If Japan can hold on for a little while, the US may run its' debt up to exceed Japan's 270% of GDP.

[deMolay]

Debt to GDP Levels Indicate Government Bankruptcies. http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/debt-to- ... -bankrupt/

[Novus]

The solution is nationalization of the currency. Take the power of the printing press back from the private bankers and give back to the people. The world ultimately has to abandon capitalism or civilization as we know it will end.

[mos6507]

The world ultimately has to abandon capitalism or civilization as we know it will end.

In favor of what?

[cipi604]

The world ultimately has to abandon capitalism or civilization as we know it will end.

In favor of what?

Good question. I think we already know the answer, but nobody cares.

[eastbay]

The solution is nationalization of the currency. Take the power of the printing press back from the private bankers and give back to the people. The world ultimately has to abandon capitalism or civilization as we know it will end.

That's what I'm talking about. Capitalism requires expansion and expansion is no longer on the table. So what's remaining?? But the answer can really anger some so we have to tip toe when dealing with this Most Important Issue. One step at a time.

[Homesteader]

The world ultimately has to abandon capitalism or civilization as we know it will end.

In favor of what?

Nobody is "in favor" of it, however IMO it will be replaced by collapse. Our worldwide culture is hooked on captalism and it will mainline it to the bitter, unavoidable yet obvious conclusion.

Who, even among us here, are going to volunteer giving up the chance to grow our wealth and "get ahead", whatever form that may take? What corporation is going to voluntarily not grow? Not strive to increase profits? Not win the race?

Darwin and Malthus are smiling.

[dsula]

The solution is nationalization of the currency. Take the power of the printing press back from the private bankers and give back to the people. The world ultimately has to abandon capitalism or civilization as we know it will end.

That's what I'm talking about. Capitalism requires expansion and expansion is no longer on the table. So what's remaining?? But the answer can really anger some so we have to tip toe when dealing with this Most Important Issue. One step at a time.

Capitalsim does not need expansion. Capitalism referrs to a system where assets and profits are privatly owned vs. owned by the state/society. That has nothing to do with expansion.

[pedalling_faster]

The solution is nationalization of the currency. Take the power of the printing press back from the private bankers and give back to the people. The world ultimately has to abandon capitalism or civilization as we know it will end.

the outcome is fairly predictable. the US prints the currency and the currency devalues by an additional 50%. that solves a lot of the problems related to credit derivatives, since it puts a floor under real estate prices. all those Chinese investors & other foreign investors can buy the overbuilt inventory - as they are currently doing.

of course, the US is still heading from a $12 trillion debt to a $20 trillion debt by the end (or middle) of Obama's second term, if he stays in office that long.

raising interest rates tends to increase the value of the currency, but it also adds to the debt at a humongous rate. since the debt isn't being re-paid, the interest is being added to the principle. at 3.5%, that's a current rate of $420 billion a year.

maybe someone with more caffeine can figure out what the national debt curve will look like for the time-frame 2009-2050. once the interest on the debt gets to $1 trillion a year, the math is easier. lets say that happens in 2020. so then by 2050, the debt is $30 trillion higher - $50 trillion.

that's official debt, not including all the promises & load guarantees made.

in other words, what we flush down the toilet in the morning is worth more than those 2050 $. at least the humanure has the ability to fertilize our gardens.

[deMolay]

Good post Pedalling Faster. The Wall is approaching and we are accelerating.

[rangerone314]

I would argue in favor of a form of free market economics that is different from the expansion-oriented form of capitalism that we have now.

A lot businesses go through a cycle.

Birth. Growth. Stability. Decline. Death.

Example of decline is "Blockbusters" and growth is "Netflix".

New technology and new ideas means new companies and the collapse of old ones. In the future, the only economic expansion will be in new companies.

I.e. a zero sum game. Without cheap energy or population expansion, no room for zombie hanger-ons like AOL or Blockbusters.

As new ideas and technologies come, capital still needs to be reallocated to more efficient or current businesses.

[hillsidedigger]

Sustainment implies a static economy although some can grow while others decline.

[rangerone314]

Sustainment implies a static economy although some can grow while others decline.

Exactly.

[Homesteader]

Capitalsim does not need expansion. Capitalism referrs to a system where assets and profits are privatly owned vs. owned by the state/society. That has nothing to do with expansion.

Tell that to the capitalist corporate captains.

[Carlhole]

The solution is nationalization of the currency. Take the power of the printing press back from the private bankers and give back to the people. The world ultimately has to abandon capitalism or civilization as we know it will end.

That's what I'm talking about. Capitalism requires expansion and expansion is no longer on the table. So what's remaining?? But the answer can really anger some so we have to tip toe when dealing with this Most Important Issue. One step at a time.

We don't no need no f---ing teep toe. Tell them like eet is, right-weenger! We need Fidel, mang!

[mattduke]

The bond vigilantes turn their attention to France. German bonds are the last outpost.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-0 ... cline.html

[mattduke]

The German chancellor Angela Merkel and French president Nicolas Sarkozy have called for a total European ban on naked short-selling of government bonds.

In a joint letter to European commission president Jose Manuel Barroso, the leaders of Europe's two biggest economies urged the EU to ban trades where investors bet a certain stock or bond will fall in value when they don't hold that stock or bond itself.

"Naked short-selling should be prohibited to refrain European markets from suffering a new wave of severe turbulence," the two presidents said.

God they are dumb.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010 ... el-sarkozy

[eXpat]

Well, the story is as follows: apparently some french activists that are/were disappointed with the effect of the protests so far, want to do something more drastic, in this case, they are organizing a Bank Run on Dec 7th.
Here are the links:
http://www.alterinfo.net/STOP-BANQUE-Le-7-decembre_a50988.html?com

http://stopbanque.blogspot.com/
Interesting to say the least, i don´t think they will make any impact in the banking system, but is interesting to see that the unwashed masses want to make a dent in the system.

[Sixstrings]

Interesting idea. Usually things like this are hard to organize, but with all the unions in France they might make an impact. Of course, I assume the European Central Bank can just make up the shortfall. It's all fiat money.. the government can just print more and then take it back out of the economy when the protest is over and folks deposit in banks again.