The Outlook for Steady State Economics in 2013

[Graeme]

The Outlook for Steady State Economics in 2013

The Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy (CASSE) has been the leading organization in advancing the steady state economy as a policy goal for nearly ten years. Maybe that’s not saying much, because CASSE has been the only organization focused on advancing the steady state economy. But times, they are a-changin’. Others are sure to come onboard as climate change, biodiversity loss, supplies shocks and other formidable problems are all traced back to too much economic growth. Too much production and consumption of goods and services in the aggregate. Too much population and per capita consumption. Too much GDP. Too much economic activity for the planet and its polities to take.

Predicting the future is risky business. It’s usually unnecessary and there’s a lot of credibility at stake. But it seems perfectly reasonable to predict that, soon, more organizations will start explicitly advocating the steady state economy as the sustainable alternative to economic growth.

For example, after decades of warning readers about the increasing human pressures on waning natural resources, why wouldn’t the Worldwatch Institute start advancing the steady state economy along with CASSE? The Institute’s flagship annual publication, the State of the World, can hardly avoid a focus on economic growth (as the problem) and the steady state economy (the solution) much longer. Avoiding the topic would be like the American Cancer Society avoiding the effects of smoking.

There are also signs that the Gund Institute for Ecological Economics, which graduates more ecological economics students than any other academic institution, will be taking an active role in advancing the steady state economy. There’s nothing wrong with academia weighing in on policy matters after abundant academic analysis has been performed. Who wouldn’t want the input of a medical school on the effects of tobacco, or the input of a physics department on nuclear power? Serious analysis of the alternatives to economic growth, such as occurs at graduate schools, should be brought into public circulation by those same graduate schools and other academic units qualified to do so.

How about political parties? Some Green parties already endorse the CASSE position on economic growth, and a few have adopted the steady state economy in their policy platforms, but surely they and other small parties will start emphasizing the steady state economy more in their campaigns. Only those policies that have substantial emphasis in small-party affairs will graduate to mainstream political affairs. I believe Green and other parties will unite increasingly around the steady state economy as the primary policy for environmental protection, economic sustainability, national security and international stability.

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[Plantagenet]

Steady state economic systems have been tried many times in history.

The Hindu caste system and the peasant class in feudal systems of Medieval Europe, China, and Japan, as well as the serfs of Russia are all examples of systems where people's position and economic future were all "set" when they were born. These economic systems were all about keeping people in their place and ensuring stability.

Of course, the price for such static economic systems was high---they resulted in economic poverty for the vast majority of people, and a tremendous waste of human talent and creativity among the lower classes and lower castes.

Sorry----freedom of opportunity and freedom of thought are much better.


Its a drag being in the lower class in a steady state social and economic system

[americandream]

Steady state economic systems have been tried many times in history.

The Hindu caste system and the peasant class in feudal systems of Medieval Europe, China, and Japan, as well as the serfs of Russia are all examples of systems where people's position and economic future were all "set" when they were born. These economic systems were all about keeping people in their place and ensuring stability.

Of course, the price for such static economic systems was high---they resulted in economic poverty for the vast majority of people, and a tremendous waste of human talent and creativity among the lower classes and lower castes.

Sorry----freedom of opportunity and freedom of thought are much better.


Its a drag being in the lower class in a steady state social and economic system

This will be less of an issue of choice and more one of material compulsion. The trick of course will be in applying modernity beyond the economics of infinite growth which will clearly have to be outside of capitalism or even rudimentary mercantilism, both of which operate on personal incentivisation. The other alternative of course is the choice of freedom to barbarism which may be your preferred option.

[Ibon]

Material compulsion has the singular advantage of breaking through whatever extreme of the polarity divide you find yourself ideologically stuck in. It is in fact the only catalyst toward transition remaining when Kudzu Ape completes his mission of backing himself into the cul de sac of overshoot.

[pstarr]

Steady state economic systems have been tried many times in history.

The Hindu caste system and the peasant class in feudal systems of Medieval Europe, China, and Japan, as well as the serfs of Russia are all examples of systems where people's position and economic future were all "set" when they were born.

Feudal Europe a "steady-state" economic system? Without historic perspective, fogged by your Republican agenda, you see nothing but yourself.
That is mental masturbation. You describe periods of decline, war and conquest.

Do a bit of research before you shoot your mouth off. There are plenty of example of traditional successful steady-state systems that were over-run and destroyed by market monoliths and religious facist states like you adore. Today we can look at Bali to understand a culture that integrates the social, spiritual, agriculture, and technical.

For thousands of years, generations of Balinese farmers have
transformed their landscape to enable the growth of irrigated rice.
Parallel to the physical system of rice terraces and irrigation, intricate
networks of shrines and temples are dedicated to agricultural deities
(Lansing & Kremer, 1993). John Steven Lansing is one of the only
anthropologists to study agricultural practices in Bali. Through
extensive research into Balinese culture, he discovered the cosmology
behind much of daily life, including the organization of water
irrigation systems. Balinese water temples are instrumental, both as
religions markers and as aids to agricultural productivity. In light of
recent disruption in these practices precipitated by political changes
during the Green Revolution in the nineteen sixties, it is important to
understand the interrelation between centuries of Balinese cosmology
and the development of traditional highly effective agricultural
practices.

We need to learn from these systems. Unlike many other ancient and modern societies the Balinese have managed to live on the same ground without committing ecologic suicide and environmental collapse. It is possible.

http://www.hamilton.edu/documents//levi ... rticle.pdf

[Plantagenet]

Steady state economic systems have been tried many times in history.

The Hindu caste system and the peasant class in feudal systems of Medieval Europe, China, and Japan, as well as the serfs of Russia are all examples of systems where people's position and economic future were all "set" when they were born. These economic systems were all about keeping people in their place and ensuring stability.

Of course, the price for such static economic systems was high---they resulted in economic poverty for the vast majority of people, and a tremendous waste of human talent and creativity among the lower classes and lower castes.

Sorry----freedom of opportunity and freedom of thought are much better.

This will be less of an issue of choice and more one of material compulsion.

Yes, well, communists like you have already tried "material compulsion" in Cambodia, North Korea, the USSR and Mao's China, and all it brought was mass famines, gulags, re-education camps and tens of million of state-mandated murders. The communists clearly win first place in the "greatest mass murderers in history" contest....you guys are experts in "material compulsion" but not so good at desiging working economies and free and open societies.

Economic contraction is inevitable in the post-Peak Oil world, but that doesn't mean we will turn to static, closed-minded, and rigidly steady-state societies.

Merry Christmas!

[pstarr]

You two are a matching set, authoritarians from the left and right you hijack threads with the same boring claptrap. You don't understand or even attempt to give lip service to what the article talks about. Ecological design, integrated agriculture/industry, nutrient flow/management, living systems, permaculture is all about local systems.

You reduce everything to your monolithic left/right agenda. Big Communism and Big Capitalism are exactly what has gotten us into the current mess We need to enclose your type in pens, toss in crusts, tokens and tidbits so you, not us, will fight to the death.

[Plantagenet]

We need to enclose your type in pens, toss in crusts, tokens and tidbits ...

We need to provide medical care to you and other mentally ill people, so you don't act out your sick-o fantasies.

[americandream]

Steady state economic systems have been tried many times in history.

The Hindu caste system and the peasant class in feudal systems of Medieval Europe, China, and Japan, as well as the serfs of Russia are all examples of systems where people's position and economic future were all "set" when they were born. These economic systems were all about keeping people in their place and ensuring stability.

Of course, the price for such static economic systems was high---they resulted in economic poverty for the vast majority of people, and a tremendous waste of human talent and creativity among the lower classes and lower castes.

Sorry----freedom of opportunity and freedom of thought are much better.

This will be less of an issue of choice and more one of material compulsion.

Yes, well, communists like you have already tried "material compulsion" in Cambodia, North Korea, the USSR and Mao's China, and all it brought was mass famines, gulags, re-education camps and tens of million of state-mandated murders. The communists clearly win first place in the "greatest mass murderers in history" contest....you guys are experts in "material compulsion" but not so good at desiging working economies and free and open societies.

Economic contraction is inevitable in the post-Peak Oil world, but that doesn't mean we will turn to static, closed-minded, and rigidly steady-state societies.

Merry Christmas!

I did add a qualifier...being that were enough of you to insist on consumption to the limits of this planet and beyond, in the name of freedom and choice, as opposed to engaged debate on modern collectivisation of the remaining resources, then of course, we will all live with the consequences.

Material limits are objective functions of the our planet and our choices are constrained therein. Blubbering on about the dastardly deeds of those who weren't confronted with the choices we will be tends to lose the plot somewhat.

[americandream]

You two are a matching set, authoritarians from the left and right you hijack threads with the same boring claptrap. You don't understand or even attempt to give lip service to what the article talks about. Ecological design, integrated agriculture/industry, nutrient flow/management, living systems, permaculture is all about local systems.

You reduce everything to your monolithic left/right agenda. Big Communism and Big Capitalism are exactly what has gotten us into the current mess We need to enclose your type in pens, toss in crusts, tokens and tidbits so you, not us, will fight to the death.

You cannot render any system with a hint of mercantilism, ecological, The drive to incentivise entrepreneurship tends to shift all mercantile systems into overdrive in terms of accumulation and then towards capitalism.

It would be nice if we could render the sale of pots and pans along with all the other goods in our aisles more sustainable but alas, private gain eventually shifts the profit stakes up the next notch.

Communism is the only viable form of modernity as it removes continuous exchange from the equation and renders exchange a non-profit function of need rather than want.

[Shaved Monkey]

Sorry----freedom of opportunity and freedom of thought are much better.

Surely no one believes that fairytale anymore.... what happens when the supply of carrots run out ?

.
The communists clearly win first place in the "greatest mass murderers in history" contest....you guys are experts in "material compulsion" but not so good at desiging working economies and free and open societies.

lol.... free and open societies
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 603AA4Ev5m
then add the death toll of the British Empire to that and any other you can think off.

[Pops]

I was going to go into a long diatribe about why we won't get a chance to "choose" low or no growth since it is inevitable but this guy does it better.

[vision-master]

Steady state economic systems have been tried many times in history.

The Hindu caste system and the peasant class in feudal systems of Medieval Europe, China, and Japan, as well as the serfs of Russia are all examples of systems where people's position and economic future were all "set" when they were born.

Feudal Europe a "steady-state" economic system? Without historic perspective, fogged by your Republican agenda, you see nothing but yourself.
That is mental masturbation. You describe periods of decline, war and conquest.

Do a bit of research before you shoot your mouth off. There are plenty of example of traditional successful steady-state systems that were over-run and destroyed by market monoliths and religious facist states like you adore. Today we can look at Bali to understand a culture that integrates the social, spiritual, agriculture, and technical.

For thousands of years, generations of Balinese farmers have
transformed their landscape to enable the growth of irrigated rice.
Parallel to the physical system of rice terraces and irrigation, intricate
networks of shrines and temples are dedicated to agricultural deities
(Lansing & Kremer, 1993). John Steven Lansing is one of the only
anthropologists to study agricultural practices in Bali. Through
extensive research into Balinese culture, he discovered the cosmology
behind much of daily life, including the organization of water
irrigation systems. Balinese water temples are instrumental, both as
religions markers and as aids to agricultural productivity. In light of
recent disruption in these practices precipitated by political changes
during the Green Revolution in the nineteen sixties, it is important to
understand the interrelation between centuries of Balinese cosmology
and the development of traditional highly effective agricultural
practices.

We need to learn from these systems. Unlike many other ancient and modern societies the Balinese have managed to live on the same ground without committing ecologic suicide and environmental collapse. It is possible.

http://www.hamilton.edu/documents//levi ... rticle.pdf

pre-history (Inca) water systems...

[pstarr]

VM, I just wish you'd stop attributing human intelligence to Aliens. Can't we be smart all on our own?

A steady-state economy depends on appropriate population control. But as that is off the agenda for both the Republicans and this web site (a violation of COC) I guess the conversation stops here.

[vision-master]

VM, I just wish you'd stop attributing human intelligence to Aliens. Can't we be smart all on our own?

A steady-state economy depends on appropriate population control. But as that is off the agenda for both the Republicans and this web site (a violation of COC) I guess the conversation stops here.

Those water systems may have been build by the Olmec.

NOTE: They look to be African in nature.

[dolanbaker]

VM, I just wish you'd stop attributing human intelligence to Aliens. Can't we be smart all on our own?

A steady-state economy depends on appropriate population control. But as that is off the agenda for both the Republicans and this web site (a violation of COC) I guess the conversation stops here.

My take on the images that VM posted is that advanced technologies pre-existed in the past, As for steady state (or near steady state) usually, it meant that if population exceeded the local areas ability to support it, there was a famine until equibilibrium was restored, or some of the people would leave the region to establish a new "colony" elsewhere.

[Fishman]

VM, been there, seen some of those, didn't get to talk to any Olmec for some reason. Can't find many steady state economies if one studies history, sort of an oxymoron in reality."
"Communism is the only viable form of modernity as it removes continuous exchange from the equation and renders exchange a non-profit function of need rather than want." Perhaps in theory, never in reality

[pstarr]

VM, I just wish you'd stop attributing human intelligence to Aliens. Can't we be smart all on our own?

A steady-state economy depends on appropriate population control. But as that is off the agenda for both the Republicans and this web site (a violation of COC) I guess the conversation stops here.

My take on the images that VM posted is that advanced technologies pre-existed in the past, As for steady state (or near steady state) usually, it meant that if population exceeded the local areas ability to support it, there was a famine until equibilibrium was restored, or some of the people would leave the region to establish a new "colony" elsewhere.

According to wiki infanticide rates in prehistoric times were between 15% and 50% of the total number of births. I suspect those folks were no crueler than us, just smarter. As we run out of earth we will die by the billions with no forethought, planning, program, justice, or mercy. Just chaos and pain.

[Plantagenet]

----freedom of opportunity and freedom of thought are much better.

Surely no one believes that fairytale anymore....

You prefer no education and closed off opportunities, and zero freedom of thought?

.
The communists clearly win first place in the "greatest mass murderers in history" contest....

lol....
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 603AA4Ev5m
then add the death toll of the British Empire to that and any other you can think off.

I clicked through to your linkie, and it was a post by a guy adding up all the deaths in wars, as though all the deaths in WWI and WWII etc. were the fault of the USA. This is a silly way to look at this question. Scholars who look at mass murder don't generally include war dead, because deaths and casualties are part of the war rather than a deliberate policy of state murder. For instance, when Japan attacked the USA in WWII, its a bit of a stretch to "blame" the USA for all the deaths in the war that followed, because the USA was defending itself in the war.

Scholars instead consider mass murders to be actual state-sponsored killings of non-combatants, such as occurred when Hitler rounded up Jews and gassed them at Auschwitz, or Stalin rounded up various classes of people and had them shot or exported to labor camps in Siberia where they died due to malnutrition, or Lenin stripped the Ukrainian kulak farmers of their horses and seed corn, so they all died, or the Turks rounded up Armenians and shot them, or Mao instituted policies that destroyed the existing agricultural system and produced mass famines in China that killed tens of millions.

When you look at state-sponsored murders the big three are:

--61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
--35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese State
--20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State

Making communists far and away the greatest mass murderers in history. The communist numbers are much much larger if you include the deaths due to state-managed famines----these numbers only include people actually murdered by these three totalitarian states.

[pstarr]

But that is not the point of this thread, Planty. As long as you Republicans deny women their reproductive rights, ignore planetary limits, and promote market-place solutions to ecological dilemma, then world population will continue to spiral out of control exceeding natural limits and portending a mass death far worse than any you guys have promoted in the past.