Drivers can afford gasoline tax hike

[Ache]

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/06/ ... 99063.html

Drivers can afford to pay higher gasoline taxes to improve their roads, Michigan's top transportation official said while warning more than 125 projects will be delayed if funding is not increased.

State Department of Transportation Director Kirk Steudle on Tuesday estimated motorists would pay an extra 16 cents per week - "a stick of gum" - for every penny increase in the 19-cents-a-gallon gas tax. He urged lawmakers to support a proposal to convert the gas tax to a percentage tax on the wholesale price of gas, which would rise at capped amounts as prices at the pump increase.

The gas tax could be as high as 34 cents a gallon in five to seven years under the plan that has been announced but not yet officially introduced. The tax would drop slightly this year, reach 24 cents in 2010 and rise no higher than 3 additional cents annually in subsequent years.

Steudle said people do not think twice about buying a $2 or $4 cup of coffee once a week or even every day.

"This will break everybody's back? Really? A half-pack of gum is going to break everybody's back? Let's put this in perspective," Steudle told the House and Senate Transportation committees.

[Colorado 12]

I remember paying $4.07 for gas not more than a year ago and if gas prices stay below that I don't think it will keep anyone off the road...

[heroineworshipper]

They'll just collect more entitlements in exchange for going broke buying gas.

[Tyler_JC]

The problem with gas taxes is that they are inherently regressive.

It's a consumption tax on one of the bare necessities of life, at least in the non-urban United States.

How are working class folks in the suburbs going to afford $4/gallon gasoline to get to work?

We should have been preparing them for the eventually hike in gas prices by slowly raising prices over time to encourage an adjustment to a less gas-hungry society.

Now we are forced to rapidly adjust and that rapid adjustment is coming right out of the standard of living of millions of working class Americans.

The average passenger car consumes roughly 550 gallons of fuel per year. Each dollar increase in gas is $550/year in added cost that must come from somewhere.

[deMolay]

What I don't get, is country folk have to pay tax to support urban transit, even tho we don't use it. But are on our own when it comes to gas taxes. You guys are lucky that you don't live in Canada. Right now locally gas is 95cents per litre or 3.80 a US gallon. A full 45 percent is TAXES.

[dunewalker]

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/06/03/ap6499063.html

Drivers can afford to pay higher gasoline taxes to improve their roads, Michigan's top transportation official said while warning more than 125 projects will be delayed if funding is not increased.

State Department of Transportation Director Kirk Steudle on Tuesday...

Easy for him to say---he has a relatively secure government job at a high salary. He forgets that Detroit is part of Michigan. Lots of folks around there might disagree with him.

[dinopello]

Growing suspicion that Gas Taxes will Rise. This could be the spark that ignites the REVOLT !

Seriously, people in the US do not like high gas prices. Somethings going to give.

With soaring debt, rising government spending and the Fiscal Cliff looming at the end of this year, there's growing speculation that State governments could target the gas pumps to gain some revenue to go towards infrastructure funding. It's a battle that no politician wants to take on directly because even the smallest increase tends to ignite the driving public.

"The States got a bit smarter, they are charging a percentage-based sales tax," says Dehaan. "Whenever gas prices go up, States win. It's their cash cow. Look for the Feds to try something similar, but it's not going to go over very well."

[ralfy]

The U.S. has no choice but to cut down heavily on spending. Otherwise, its economic pains will only worsen.

[Arthur75]

The US basically lied to itself with the "first oil shock=arab embargo" joke (when it was a direct consequence of US 1971 production peak, and US diplomacy/majors pushed for a higher barrel price)), dropped Bretton woods, moved to the petro dollar (US army protecting oil routes, oil traded in $), $ reserve currency, debt bubble initiated, OECD nations more or less joining the train.
The only sensible policy would have been an increasing volume based tax on oil/gas over the years (and this to push vehicles, infrastructure in the right direction), but now clearly way too late, collapse on the way.

[dsula]

This could be the spark that ignites the REVOLT !

Gas went from $0.99 to $4 at the pump within 15 years. No REVOLT in sight. Easily slap on another $5 in taxes/per gallon and not much would happen.

[seenmostofit]

This could be the spark that ignites the REVOLT !

Gas went from $0.99 to $4 at the pump within 15 years. No REVOLT in sight. Easily slap on another $5 in taxes/per gallon and not much would happen.

Amazing how easy that idea is to contemplate, isn't it? Certainly a jump like that would be noticed even by those of us heavily investing in substitution/mitigation/preps for such a scenario, and while the screaming from the unprepared would be nothing but historic, it still wouldn't be TEOTWAEKI. What is the worst that would happen? Americans would start to behave like...Europeans? Drive small cars, bicycle more, live closer to work?

[seenmostofit]

The US basically lied to itself with the "first oil shock=arab embargo" joke (when it was a direct consequence of US 1971 production peak, and US diplomacy/majors pushed for a higher barrel price)), dropped Bretton woods, moved to the petro dollar (US army protecting oil routes, oil traded in $), $ reserve currency, debt bubble initiated, OECD nations more or less joining the train.

Lied to itself? Ummm...no. That same decade saw the President of the most powerful country on the planet was telling us the world was running out of oil and natural gas. Are you saying he was lying to us?

The only sensible policy would have been an increasing volume based tax on oil/gas over the years (and this to push vehicles, infrastructure in the right direction), but now clearly way too late, collapse on the way.

Yeah...collapse on the way...Malthus sure called that one right...except for the timing part. And you have an "IN" on the timing of collapse better than him mayhap? Your birth is a direct consequence of him being WRONG. What will your great great grandchildren say?

[vision-master]

So shorty's idea of collapse is the World will end on 12, 21, 2012....... lsol

[dsula]

This could be the spark that ignites the REVOLT !

Gas went from $0.99 to $4 at the pump within 15 years. No REVOLT in sight. Easily slap on another $5 in taxes/per gallon and not much would happen.

Amazing how easy that idea is to contemplate, isn't it? Certainly a jump like that would be noticed even by those of us heavily investing in substitution/mitigation/preps for such a scenario, and while the screaming from the unprepared would be nothing but historic, it still wouldn't be TEOTWAEKI. What is the worst that would happen? Americans would start to behave like...Europeans? Drive small cars, bicycle more, live closer to work?

I know, I know. During 2008 when local politicians were screaming to suspend gas tax I was writing emails to them asking for an INCREASE in tax. Not that anybody ever listened, but I didn't expect it either.

[seenmostofit]

So shorty's idea of collapse is the World will end on 12, 21, 2012....... lsol

You would have to go ask him, certainly there are Planet Nirubu/X Mayan calendar pole reversal yesterday earthquakes are the punishment for our sins pyramid ratio orbital equation chariots of the gods Harold Camping types around, but I don't buy into that stuff myself.

[dinopello]

This could be the spark that ignites the REVOLT !

Gas went from $0.99 to $4 at the pump within 15 years. No REVOLT in sight. Easily slap on another $5 in taxes/per gallon and not much would happen.

Amazing how easy that idea is to contemplate, isn't it? Certainly a jump like that would be noticed even by those of us heavily investing in substitution/mitigation/preps for such a scenario, and while the screaming from the unprepared would be nothing but historic, it still wouldn't be TEOTWAEKI. What is the worst that would happen? Americans would start to behave like...Europeans? Drive small cars, bicycle more, live closer to work?

What would happen is any politician who had voted for or signed a $5 a gallon tax on gas would be voted out in the very next election, replaced by someone who would then repeal it.

[Arthur75]

Lied to itself? Ummm...no. That same decade saw the President of the most powerful country on the planet was telling us the world was running out of oil and natural gas. Are you saying he was lying to us?

The world isn't the US, the message "the US went through its oil production peak" was never there and more importantly the label "oil embargo" or "Arab embargo" IS the label attached by the vast majority of Americans to the first oil shock.

So yes, the US has indeed lied to itself for more than 40 years and continue to do so, simple historical fact.

[seenmostofit]

Lied to itself? Ummm...no. That same decade saw the President of the most powerful country on the planet was telling us the world was running out of oil and natural gas. Are you saying he was lying to us?

The world isn't the US, the message "the US went through its oil production peak" was never there and more importantly the label "oil embargo" or "Arab embargo" IS the label attached by the vast majority of Americans to the first oil shock.

Just because the rest of the world is/was ignorant of the US production peak isn't America's fault, certainly our President was ringing the alarm bell in 1977, and Nixon was certainly hinting after the same thing years earlier. And of course the embargo gets factored in, it was going on, but so were the claims of running out, back then the embargo and American dependence on foreign crude was quite the running out scenario. That it didn't pan out any better than the others isn't my fault, blame those who keep claiming we are running out.

So yes, the US has indeed lied to itself for more than 40 years and continue to do so, simple historical fact.

Crap Arthur, learn some history about us Americans talking about this stuff before you make stuff up. Peak oil for the US was being declared by the heads of US federal geologic agencies as far back as 1919. You don't get to pretend anyone was lying about anything when officials were running around talking about this stuff before you were BORN. You can claim that silly foreigners refuse to learn some of the history of US resource depletion and thought they were being lied to until they became less ignorant, but again that isn't Americas fault.

[ColossalContrarian]

Any increase in gas prices would probably hurt local businesses but in the form of a tax, it would provide a cushion and give local communities a chance to invest in rail and natural gas solutions.

[Arthur75]

Just because the rest of the world is/was ignorant of the US production peak isn't America's fault, certainly our President was ringing the alarm bell in 1977, and Nixon was certainly hinting after the same thing years earlier. And of course the embargo gets factored in, it was going on, but so were the claims of running out, back then the embargo and American dependence on foreign crude was quite the running out scenario. That it didn't pan out any better than the others isn't my fault, blame those who keep claiming we are running out.

lol, I'm not talking about the "rest of the world" I'm talking about AMERICANS

Have you ever heard of James Akins ?
Never saw him mentioned here although about oil, though to find a more key US guy :
- He is the guy that audited US capacity for Nixon further to 1971 US peak. This was a rather secret thing not meant to be publicized in the press. The results : we are in a very serious mess (and results also provided to OECD
- He was then US ambassador to Saudi Arabia, then fired from US diplomacy in 1975
- The consequence of US peak was that the western majors NEEDED higher barrel price, in order to start more expensive plays : Alaska, GOM, North Sea (and in the process keep a higher market share or in other words "less dependency on foreign oil"(does that ring a bell ?)
- The US diplomacy PUSHED FOR the price rise, and Akins in particular in a 1972 Algiers meeting
- The so called "embargo" was a complete non event (in real oil market terms, it was clearly one in Public relations terms) : it lasted 3 months, only towards a few countries (Holland in Europe), and wasn't even effective from Saudi Arabia to the US : tankers kept on going from KSA through Bahrain to the US (Army in particular in Vietnam). Some repub senators started to raise strong voices against the arabs about the embargo, Akins asked the permission to tell them what was going on, he did, they shat up, there was never any leak, Akins very specific about that in interviews below (part 2) for instance :
http://parolesdesjours.free.fr/petrole.htm (a bit after 19:30, this doc only in French and German, but interviews should be understandable)
- The so called embargo was however very practical for :
* The US putting the "blame" on the Arabs/OPEC, covering the true extend of the problem to its "citizens"
* Arab producers and Saudi Arabia in particular, showing the "arab street" that they were doing something "for the palestinians"

Anyway "That it didn't pan out any better than the others isn't my fault, blame those who keep claiming we are running out."
You obviously are one of these airheads that never truly looked at the figures, and of course know even less about the history around them, so no need to lose time.

If you know a bit how to read "in between the lines", you can also read below :
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~twod/oil ... pr1973.pdf