Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 12:04:13

"Brazil says to export more oil in 2014 than it will import" from Reuters, on of the largest international news services, repeated by all mainstream media. It is a lie.

He is the lead paragraph from said story:
May 20 Brazil will export more crude oil in 2014 than it will import, Magda Chambriard, director general of Brazil's oil regulator, the ANP, said on Tuesday.

If her prediction comes true, the oil-trade surplus will be Brazil's first since 2012, when the country exported $20.3 billion of crude oil and imported $13.4 billion, according to Brazil's commerce and trade ministry.


Nowhere is it explained that Brazil (while one of the great oil producers) is also a net oil importer. The country actually produces 2.6 million barrels a day, and consumes just over 3 million barrels per day.

Why? How? What's up? For the same reason the US is often described an exporter of oil . . . the world refineries have to blend (distillates, the individual components of oil) to create final product. So Canada produces heavy tar-sands gunk, the Bakken produces light natural gas liquids aka propane etc. The US/Canadian trade in blending components goes back an forth.

Here is an example of how the lie is promulgated in a pro-industry web site ([urlhttp://peakoilbarrel.com/world-oil-production-2/#more-15362]link[/url]):
Image
Here is the truth:
Image
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26292
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 12:46:38

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/american ... d=17536852
http://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/04/tapping- ... speed.html
http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... -gasoline/
Okay lets douse the irrational exuberance of 100 years of US oil and gas by looking at "Venezuela, Home to World’s Largest Oil Reserves, Runs Out of Gasoline
A little bit of prevaricating here. They forgot to ask if these various reserves are economically recoverable? Somewhat important question 8)
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
User avatar
onlooker
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7953
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 13:42:28

It says right in the text you quoted it is a prediction. Yet you twisted it into a statement of fact. Seems you are the liar here pstarr. And why are you digging up 3 year old articles? Are you that desperate to prove a media conspiracy?
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Illinois

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 14:03:29

onlooker wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/Business/american-oil-find-holds-oil-opec/story?id=17536852
http://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/04/tapping- ... speed.html
http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... -gasoline/
Okay lets douse the irrational exuberance of 100 years of US oil and gas by looking at "Venezuela, Home to World’s Largest Oil Reserves, Runs Out of Gasoline
A little bit of prevaricating here. They forgot to ask if these various reserves are economically recoverable? Somewhat important question 8)


They are economically recoverable. Otherwise they wouldn't be reserves. The amusing part is, they might not be TECHNICALLY recoverable by idiots, which appears to be the real problem here.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 3156
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 14:08:36

The headline and the article and the oil minister and you all lie by/via omission.

Congrats Kub! You have joined the other amateurs on my ignore list. See ya.
. .don't want to be ya'
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26292
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 14:11:03

AdamB wrote:
onlooker wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/Business/american-oil-find-holds-oil-opec/story?id=17536852
http://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/04/tapping- ... speed.html
http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... -gasoline/
Okay lets douse the irrational exuberance of 100 years of US oil and gas by looking at "Venezuela, Home to World’s Largest Oil Reserves, Runs Out of Gasoline
A little bit of prevaricating here. They forgot to ask if these various reserves are economically recoverable? Somewhat important question 8)


They are economically recoverable. Otherwise they wouldn't be reserves. The amusing part is, they might not be TECHNICALLY recoverable by idiots, which appears to be the real problem here.


Oh, they are technically recoverable all right. They've still got some light oil, and of course the huge reserves of heavy oil.

The problem in Venezeula isn't the oil. The problem is the communists and socialists running the Venezuelan economy. These idiots intentionally modeled their economy on Cuba----a place where the one of the richest countries in latin American has been turned into one of the poorest, and where average wage is about a dollar a day and even toilet paper has been in short supply until recently. Sure enough, the Veneuzelans are well on their to duplicating economic conditions in Cuba.

Cheers!
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 20512
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 14:24:16

"They are economically recoverable. " Says who the Ministry of Truth Lies. And for your information Adam reserves are proven ie.Proven reserves are those reserves claimed to have a reasonable certainty (normally at least 90% confidence) of being recoverable under existing economic and political conditions, with existing technology"
and Unproven. Think you may need further internship
Last edited by onlooker on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 14:39:20, edited 1 time in total.
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
User avatar
onlooker
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7953
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 14:34:20

pstarr wrote:Congrats Kub! You have joined the other amateurs on my ignore list.
If only. You have promised me such treasures before but then failed to deliver.
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Illinois

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 15:21:53

onlooker wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/Business/american-oil-find-holds-oil-opec/story?id=17536852
http://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/04/tapping- ... speed.html
http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... -gasoline/
Okay lets douse the irrational exuberance of 100 years of US oil and gas by looking at "Venezuela, Home to World’s Largest Oil Reserves, Runs Out of Gasoline
A little bit of prevaricating here. They forgot to ask if these various reserves are economically recoverable? Somewhat important question 8)

Of course so-called 'reserve' measure was always at least financial and finally economic/political measures. Just consider various classifications: '','proven reserves', 'proven developed', 'proven undeveloped', ). Then there is 'probable reserves' p50's, known accumulations with a 50% confidence level of recovery. Of course the Russian have their own system (as do the SA's) But then it all changed in 2009 to make it easier to scam Kub, Plant and the rest
Until December 2009 "1P" proven reserves were the only type the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission allowed oil companies to report to investors. Companies listed on U.S. stock exchanges must substantiate their claims, but many governments and national oil companies do not disclose verifying data to support their claims. Since January 2010 the SEC now allows companies to also provide additional optional information declaring 2P (both proven and probable) and 3P (proven plus probable plus possible) provided the evaluation is verified by qualified third party consultants, though many companies choose to use 2P and 3P estimates only for internal purposes.

More crap headlines! Yippie! More oil! Yippie! More paid interns. Welcome Kub. I'd recommend you going back to ditch digging. There's a better future.

But all that is not the issue here. It's about API grading lies. We all know that conventional crude, the medium grades so valuable for refining into gasoline and diesel peaked back in 2005 (with a possible bump in 2011). The rest of the crap super heavy from Canada and super light from Bakken Permian et al are subgrade crap petroleum that must be blended. And guess what? Volume, density, btu's are lost in that process. Hence the discrepancy between EIA refinery input/output data. EIA lies also. Who knew?
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26292
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 15:40:45

pstarr wrote:More crap headlines! Yippie! More oil! Yippie! More paid interns. Welcome Kub.
Wow. At least last time your "ignore" of me lasted a few days. This time you couldn't even go 1 post without mentioning me.
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Illinois

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 15:59:46

If we're going to debate the oil dynamics in Brazil why don't we use some current f*cking numbers. LOL. Also when reading about Brazil don't forget that Petrobras IS NOT the only company producing and exporting oil in the country. But it is the only oil importer. From Feb, 2017:

Reuters - Rising output from Brazil's sub-salt offshore oil fields is allowing state oil company Petrobras to export record volumes of oil and import less light crude for its refineries. Rising output from sub-salt, an area off the coast of Rio de Janeiro which has lighter oil than the Brazilian average, helped Brazil cut its crude imports to the lowest level since the 1990s last year while exports set a record in January.

Brazil's sub-salt production rose to 1.26 million barrels per day (bpd) in December, equivalent to 46 percent of the country's total output - up from 34 percent a year earlier. Mastella said that as a result the percentage of Brazilian oil used in Petrobras' refineries had reached 91 percent, up 10 percentage points over the past five years. "The properties of the oil from the sub-salt encourages both its use in Petrobras' refineries in Brazil and for exports, as it has a higher commercial value," Mastella said in an emailed response to questions.

Brazilian imports fell to their lowest level in 19 years in 2016, data from the Trade Ministry showed this month. Crude imports fell to roughly 65 million barrels (178,000 bbls per day) in 2016 (nearly half of their 2015 level). Part of that was due to a 4.5% fall in domestic fuel consumption amid Brazil's worst recession on record. Figures from energy regulator ANP showed that oil exports from Brazil set a monthly record in January of roughly 1.26 million bpd.

Rising sub-salt production helped Brazil significantly increase exports. The IEA expects Brazil's 2017 output to rise 230,000 bpd on the year to 2.84 million bpd. While Petrobras has forecast its output will slip by 3.5 percent this year to around 2.07 million bpd due to delays in projects coming online, that should be compensated by rising output from other producers.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 10625
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby Cog » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 16:19:30

pstarr wrote:The headline and the article and the oil minister and you all lie by/via omission.

Congrats Kub! You have joined the other amateurs on my ignore list. See ya.
. .don't want to be ya'


You are rapidly running out of people to debate. :lol:
User avatar
Cog
Anti-Matter
Anti-Matter
 
Posts: 9479
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Metro-East Illinois

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 17:12:12

RM, I never suggested that Brazil issn't one of the few growing oil regions, or that its' ultra deep and presalt might not some day make a difference (still holding our breath's on presalt after 10 years). We could go on and on and on . . . but the salient point is that Brazil is (and will remain so) a rich country (like the US) that will always import oil. Until it can't. Brazil (like the US) will never ever be a member of OPEC. Brazil and the US will always consume more petroleum than each produces. See Jeffrey Brown's ELM. It's a model. Science. That remains really nifty :)

But that is not the point of this thread. It is about deception . . . intentional misdirection . . . by the oil industry and the coterie of interns and low-level flacks that now populate this joint.
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26292
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 17:22:14

pstarr wrote:We could go on and on and on . . . but the salient point is that Brazil is (and will remain so) a rich country (like the US) that will always import oil. Until it can't. Brazil (like the US) will never ever be a member of OPEC. Brazil and the US will always consume more petroleum than each produces.
Did you even bother to read Rockman's quote? Exports of 1.26 million bpd of crude vs crude imports of 178,000 bpd.

Crude imports fell to roughly 65 million barrels (178,000 bbls per day) in 2016 (nearly half of their 2015 level). oil exports from Brazil set a monthly record in January of roughly 1.26 million bpd.
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Illinois

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 11 Apr 2017, 10:22:06

onlooker wrote:"They are economically recoverable. " Says who the Ministry of Truth Lies.


Feel free to read what the definitions are for yourself.

More learning for everyone! This for those who can read...

http://www.spe.org/industry/docs/Petrol ... m_2007.pdf

this one for those to whom pictures make more sense...

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=17151

The idea that peak oilers don't even know the basics of this stuff isn't just disconcerting, it demonstrates why their opinions on the topic are laughable.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 3156
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:57:54

There is no one left for us to talk to onlooker (: All the idiots and interns are on our ignore list. Sad :(
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26292
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 12 Apr 2017, 16:02:54

Why don't we just look at hyped bullsh*t the MSM puts out all by itself that confuses the public, such as:

"Russia is on the verge of taking control of a US oil company. In a crazy twist of international events, Russia's state-owned oil company Rosneft might end up owning Citgo, a US energy company based in Houston, Texas. This isn't a direct takeover. Instead, it hinges on the ability of Venezuela's state-run oil company to pay back its Russian loan. The Venezuelan company owns Citgo, which was used as collateral for the loan.

Members of Congress and senators warned that it could be a big problem for US national security if Russia gets a hold of Citgo. "We are extremely concerned that Rosneft's control of a major US energy supplier could pose a grave threat to American energy security, impact the flow and price of gasoline for American consumers, and expose critical US infrastructure to national security threats," a bipartisan group of senators led by Republican Marco Rubio of Florida and Democrat Bob Menendez of New Jersey wrote Monday in a letter to US Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin."

Oh my Dog! Those Russians might ship a lot of Citgo's refinery products out of the US and endanger our ENERGY INDEPENDENCE!!! Yep, export it along with with the rest of the almost 5 million bbls per day of products we already export. And guess what: some of that 5 mm bbls per day is already being exported to Venezuela:

"U.S. refining firm Citgo Petroleum is sending more products to its parent company, Venezuela's PDVSA, to compensate for problems in the South American country's domestic network, according to sources and Reuters data.

State-run PDVSA has shipped some 190,000 barrels per day (bpd) of crude to Citgo this year, but since the third quarter Citgo has sent a large volume of refined products to Venezuela in exchange to help the cash-strapped oil firm, the data show.

From August to mid-November, PDVSA has received three or four cargoes per month of U.S. products from Citgo of about 300,000 barrels each, including gasoline blend stock, diesel and naphtha, according to Thomson Reuters vessel tracking and trade flows data. That is up from five cargoes for the entire second half of 2015."
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 10625
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby copious.abundance » Thu 13 Apr 2017, 21:50:48

The date of the article is Tue May 20, 2014. It was a prediction for year-end totals for 2014, one that did not come true. A prediction that doesn't turn out to be true is not a "lie." A lie is a misrepresentation of a fact. Predictions aren't facts, they're just ... predictions.

If I predict it's going to rain tomorrow, and it doesn't, am I a liar? No, I just made a bad prediction.

P-the-starr doesn't even know what a lie is. No wonder he believes some of the stuff he believes. :roll:
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
User avatar
copious.abundance
Anti-Matter
Anti-Matter
 
Posts: 9519
Joined: Wed 26 Mar 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Cornucopia

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 14 Apr 2017, 11:05:50

c-a: But a prediction, whether it comes true or not, that tries to hype a situation that's of little practical relevance is still propaganda. As pstarr said: "...that is not the point of this thread. It is about deception . . . intentional misdirection."

For instance, I've saw a prediction that you weren't going to drown a litter of kittens. Hope that doesn't come true, you bastard. LOL.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 10625
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Oil industry lies promulgated by a willing US media

Unread postby kublikhan » Fri 14 Apr 2017, 13:17:15

But was it intentional misdirection? Brazil became a net oil exporter last year. Seems to me that they were just a bit early on their prediction as it did ultimately come true:

BRAZIL'S PETROBRAS SAYS IT BECAME NET OIL EXPORTER LAST YEAR

Also, BP's data includes biofuel consumption, which is not even oil:
*Consumption of biogasoline (such as ethanol), biodiesel and derivatives of coal and natural gas are also included.
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Illinois

Next

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 22 guests