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Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Moderator: Pops

Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby Pops » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:57:02

From No Apology; The Case for American Greatness.

“In recent years, there’s been a view in Washington that we should simply “let the market work” by taking a hands-off approach, rather than adopt a proactive and comprehensive set of energy policies. That prescription is exactly the right one in most economic sectors, but it falls short when it comes to energy. And it ignores the fact that we have policies in place right now that distort how the energy markets function.”

“Our own policies interfere with free-market mechanisms. We subsidize domestic oil and gas production with generous tax breaks, penalize sugar-based ethanol from Brazil, and block investment in nuclear energy. Our navy assumes the prime responsibility for securing the oil routes from the Middle East, effectively subsidizing its cost. Thus, we don’t pay the full cost of Middle East oil, either at the oil-company level or at the pump.” (232)

“Market economists also identify a number of externalities – real costs that aren’t captured in the price of fuel – the most frequently cited of which are the health-care costs of pollution and the climate costs of greenhouse gases. There is a further externality: potentially leaving the next generation in the lurch by using so much oil and energy ourselves – domestic and imported – that our children face severe oil shortages, prohibitively expensive fuel, a crippled economy, and dominion of energy by Russia and other oil-rich states. No matter how you price it, oil is expensive to use; we should be encouraging our citizens to use less of it, our scientists to find alternatives for it, and our producers to find more of it here at home.”

“Many analysts predict that the world’s production of oil will peak in the next ten to twenty years, but oil expert Matt Simmons, author of Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy, presents a compelling case that Middle Eastern oil production may have already reached its peak. Simmons bases his contention on his investigation into the highly secretive matter of the level of reserves in the Saudi oil fields. But whether the peak is already past or will be reached within a few years, world oil supply will decline at some point, and no one predicts a corresponding decline in demand. If we want America to remain strong and wish to ensure that future generations have secure and prosperous lives, we must consider our current energy policies in the light of how these policies will affect our grandchildren.” (233)

http://www.policymic.com/articles/12342 ... itt-romney h/t Leanan

Discuss politely.

.
“Quite simply, we are looking at the highest average price since the age of oil began.”
-- Daniel Yergin

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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 11:25:39

Points for honesty.
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby dissident » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 12:24:32

So, if he wins we can expect Darth Chaney style foreign wars to grab oil resources?
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 13:21:24

I'm starting to like this guy............ lol
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 13:34:53

I wonder, how military solution to peak oil would look like?
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 13:53:04

It would look like the present.
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 13:56:14

What's the old saying?> "We all know politicians lie; it's when they start telling the truth you have to really worry".
Just watching the news from the US last night now, Romney getting a speech from Netanyahu about why the USA should attack Iran. I was glad to see no positive body language from the potential new POTUS, who remained quiet.
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby autonomous » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 13:56:26

Do you think the red states will buy into Romney's "radical" views on climate change, peak oil and automobiles of the future?

Romney wrote:“I shared my own dream for a super-efficient commuter vehicle. It would be a lightweight, two-passenger car in which the occupants rode tandem – one behind the other instead of side by side. These much narrower vehicles would allow for the addition of more highway lanes at very little cost, reducing traffic and commuting times. I tried out my idea on Brian Schweitzer, Montana’s no-nonsense governor. “Mitt, you’d be real smart not to ever mention that again,” he said to me with a slight smile. “People will think you’ve lost it.” (Page 235)


2010: No Apology; The Case for American Greatness, Mitt Romney
Putting the finishing touches on my latest book: "Awaken the Luddite Within"
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby dinopello » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 13:59:24

Whoever wrote that for him seems aware of the situation. Unfortunately, Matt Simmons seemed to have had some kind of breakdown before he passed so referencing him I'm not sure wins credibility.

Anyway, I hope but do not expect that a vigorous and in-depth discussion of this will be had by the candidates. It would be really cool if they could have a moderated round table debate with each candidate able to bring in their expert advisors.

I would be very surprised if Romney defended the passage quoted in the OP. It's making the case for higher oil prices and lower defense spending, two things he explicity is campaigning the opposite. But I guess it wouldn't be the first time where he is on all sides of an issue.
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby Pops » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 14:04:06

It is hard to tell what this means. Are those just a couple of paragraphs whoever wrote the book plugged in from some outline and Romney glanced over and signed off on? Or is that a daring statement full of political risk for a "severe conservative"?

(I don't usually swear but I'll make an exception) I'd shit if a candidate for anything other than the Green Party uttered that second paragraph anywhere but in the middle of the required champaign book. Why have we not heard this before now?

Our own policies interfere with free-market mechanisms... dominion of energy by Russia and other oil-rich states
Now that rings true but talking about "externalities" like pollution, global warming and resource depletion!

Or maybe this is the key phrase:
Thus, we don’t pay the full cost of Middle East oil, either at the oil-company level or at the pump.

Maybe this is simply more Drill Baby?
“Quite simply, we are looking at the highest average price since the age of oil began.”
-- Daniel Yergin

The only substitute for cheap energy is expensive energy. -- Me
Make a plan and work it. -- Me again
¡Where the heck are the pitchforks! www.MoveToAmend.org
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 14:12:11

It's definitely doublespeak. Plenty of wriggle room in some positive, some not so, directions.
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 14:13:02

autonomous wrote:Do you think the red states will buy into Romney's "radical" views on climate change, peak oil and automobiles of the future?

Romney wrote:“I shared my own dream for a super-efficient commuter vehicle. It would be a lightweight, two-passenger car in which the occupants rode tandem – one behind the other instead of side by side. These much narrower vehicles would allow for the addition of more highway lanes at very little cost, reducing traffic and commuting times. I tried out my idea on Brian Schweitzer, Montana’s no-nonsense governor. “Mitt, you’d be real smart not to ever mention that again,” he said to me with a slight smile. “People will think you’ve lost it.” (Page 235)

2010: No Apology; The Case for American Greatness, Mitt Romney


Mitt seems to be think if the 1950's Messerschmitt microcars

http://microcarmuseum.com/tour/messersc ... 955-2.html

http://vintagemicrocar.com/images/micro ... adster.JPG
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 15:25:30

block investment in nuclear energy

by not providing free liability insurance and free waste disposal and guaranteed electricity revenues.

But relax, this was written way back before the Game Changing breakthroughs. :roll:
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They seem to believe that if they say "Bakken, Brazil, offshore, tar sands, technology" enough times in a row, it will make $100-a-barrel oil go away.
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby Pops » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 15:38:01

Keith_McClary wrote:But relax, this was written way back before the Game Changing breakthroughs. :roll:

True.
“Quite simply, we are looking at the highest average price since the age of oil began.”
-- Daniel Yergin

The only substitute for cheap energy is expensive energy. -- Me
Make a plan and work it. -- Me again
¡Where the heck are the pitchforks! www.MoveToAmend.org
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby dinopello » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 16:11:02

Pops wrote:Or maybe this is the key phrase:
Thus, we don’t pay the full cost of Middle East oil, either at the oil-company level or at the pump.

Maybe this is simply more Drill Baby?


Yes, interesting. If I were invested in Canadian tar sands, for example - I would welcome less US subsidy in keeping Middle East Oil cheap (by keeping the region stable and the shipping lanes safe) and I would be for building the pipeline from Canada to Port Arthur for export. An unstable supply from ME and a means to get (the much more expensive to produce, but rather plentiful) candian tar oil to market would pay big dividends to an investor in Canadian oil and and other source of expensive to extract oil. I wonder if Mitt's "blind trust" is aware of this ?
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby Fishman » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 16:55:39

Probably every president (including soon to be president Romney) since at least Clinton has know about peak oil. Advisors in private have surely laid this out. No president or potential will make this a direct part of their campaign.
Obama, the FUBAR presidency's second term
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 06 Aug 2012, 18:15:34

vision-master wrote:I'm starting to like this guy............ lol


:lol:

He sounds more liberal than Obama. Should I vote for him? He's even got that line saying market forces isn't always the answer (only liberals say that, no conservative would ever utter that), and he's talking about how gas doesn't reflect the full cost involved in damage to the environment. Again, only progressives talk like that.

Book was written in 2010. So that means it was written in 2007-2008. Hm. This wasn't during his Massachusetts liberal days.. I forget if he was a liberal or severely conservative in the '07 primary.

Anyhow he's disavowed all this liberal stuff, he's severely conservative now.
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby Ferretlover » Tue 07 Aug 2012, 15:27:32

I wonder who did write that speech? All the talking heads speak about how he has to be given a script.
Romney wrote:“I shared my own dream for a super-efficient commuter vehicle. It would be a lightweight, two-passenger car in which the occupants rode tandem – one behind the other instead of side by side.

LOL He's probably considering how many more cars he could get on the new garage elevators if they were that small. Two-seater: ond for him and one for the chauffer(sp?)!
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 07 Aug 2012, 15:35:40

Its nice that MIttie gets Peak OIl, but chances are we are going to re-elect Obama----and he's too stupid to figure it out.

The global economy is premised on expansion, where what we face is contraction
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Unfortunately, the Fed can't print oil
---Ben Bernanke (2011)
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Re: Romney: Peak Oil is Nigh

Unread postby Pops » Tue 07 Aug 2012, 15:46:37

Another deep and insightful post, Plant. Salute!
“Quite simply, we are looking at the highest average price since the age of oil began.”
-- Daniel Yergin

The only substitute for cheap energy is expensive energy. -- Me
Make a plan and work it. -- Me again
¡Where the heck are the pitchforks! www.MoveToAmend.org
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