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THE International Energy Agency (IEA) Thread pt 4

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: THE International Energy Agency (IEA) pt 2

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 11 Aug 2017, 11:21:28

I'm looking forward to the glut ending and prices going up so the ETP zealots will have their day of reckoning.
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Re: THE International Energy Agency (IEA) pt 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 11 Aug 2017, 12:00:22

"Producers should find encouragement from demand, which is growing year-on-year more strongly than first thought,"

So let's follow the logic: For 2016, the IEA extricated worldwide average demand of was almost 96 million barrels of oil. It also notes the average price of oil that year was $45/bbl.

The IEA notes demand in 2013 was 90.6 million bopd and prices were $90+/bbl.

So demand from 2013 thru 2016 increased 5.4 million bopd and prices fell about 50%. Ya know, it almost seems as if oil prices are not determined by demand. In fact, at least in recent years, demand has been determined by the price of oil.

Wow! Do ya think oil demand might actually decrease if oil prices increase significantly? That seems contrary to the IEA's expectations that future oil demand increases will happen as oil prices increase.
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Re: THE International Energy Agency (IEA) pt 2

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 11 Aug 2017, 15:03:10

So demand from 2013 thru 2016 increased 5.4 million bopd and prices fell about 50%. Ya know, it almost seems as if oil prices are not determined by demand. In fact, at least in recent years, demand has been determined by the price of oil.


you seem to be forgetting the other side of the coin...supply.
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Re: THE International Energy Agency (IEA) pt 2

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 12 Aug 2017, 13:36:03

ROCKMAN wrote:"Producers should find encouragement from demand, which is growing year-on-year more strongly than first thought,"

So let's follow the logic: For 2016, the IEA extricated worldwide average demand of was almost 96 million barrels of oil. It also notes the average price of oil that year was $45/bbl.

The IEA notes demand in 2013 was 90.6 million bopd and prices were $90+/bbl.

So demand from 2013 thru 2016 increased 5.4 million bopd and prices fell about 50%. Ya know, it almost seems as if oil prices are not determined by demand. In fact, at least in recent years, demand has been determined by the price of oil.

Wow! Do ya think oil demand might actually decrease if oil prices increase significantly? That seems contrary to the IEA's expectations that future oil demand increases will happen as oil prices increase.


Oil prices are like every other commodity, there is a balance between supply and demand heavily influenced by price. Not only that oil historically shows an inelastic tendency, when supply goes up prices don't drop very far very fast, but when supply goes down prices shoot up very quickly and stick at higher levels.
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Re: I.E.A. states we have 9 trillion barrels left

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 12 Aug 2017, 17:22:37

shortonsense wrote:
Bas wrote:Wooooohoooo!!! [smilie=5baby.gif]


And to think I had the impression they were becoming more pessimistic in recent years, how wrong I was...


The 9 trillion number has been around awhile, all it requires is a little research and then some addition.

The entire game appears to revolve around the conversion of those resources into reserves, the peakers trying to limit the volumes to the smallest numbers to scare people ( think...climate types and their models ), and the geologists and such noting for the record that there is much more available than most people think. Adding up all the obvious forms can hit 9 trillion barrels, and the IEA is just noticing like the geoscience guys do.


Well now. What do we have here? Yes Mr Short, the number is indeed around 9 trillion. And yes, it doesn't take much to find it. And yes, the peaksters do not think in terms of resource to reserve conversion, as folks like Short repeatedly demonstrate.
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Re: I.E.A. states we have 9 trillion barrels left

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 12 Aug 2017, 17:31:43

pstarr wrote:
shortonsense wrote:
Bas wrote:Wooooohoooo!!! [smilie=5baby.gif]


And to think I had the impression they were becoming more pessimistic in recent years, how wrong I was...


The 9 trillion number has been around awhile, all it requires is a little research and then some addition.

The entire game appears to revolve around the conversion of those resources into reserves, the peakers trying to limit the volumes to the smallest numbers to scare people ( think...climate types and their models ), and the geologists and such noting for the record that there is much more available than most people think. Adding up all the obvious forms can hit 9 trillion barrels, and the IEA is just noticing like the geoscience guys do.
You have made two strategic political/social errors here and you lost any lingering audiance you may have developed at PO.


Oh now this should be good. Pstarr back when he had more neurons and someone who knows information peakers absolutely want nothing to do with, and appears to even been banned for it,

pstarr wrote:By denigrating "climate types" you have cavalierly dismissed the vast majority of educated intelligent middle class readers who understand the threat of global climate change.

Says the driver of a CO2 spewing monstrosity who can't be botherede] to EV. You have no right between clear cutting specation hobbies and CO2 spewing to lecture anyone on this topic. Strike 1 for Mr "I emit CO2 whenever I drive and refuse to stop".

pstarr wrote:You then lost the rest
The US remains one of the world's largest petroleum producers at 6 billion per day.


No Mr "I really didn't know anything a decade ago either", the US doesn't make 6 billion barrels per day. Strike 2 against a banned poster who knew more in a single post then you have demonstrated in the past year or two I've been here now.
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Re: I.E.A. states we have 9 trillion barrels left

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 12 Aug 2017, 17:38:16

shortonsense wrote:
Cloud9 wrote:Good to know I have been worried about nothing. :-D


As incorrect an assumption as the peak oil "we're all going to die" argument itself.

Resource depletion is a real issue, and estimating it, size, effect, and timing, honestly and scientifically, matters.

Unfortunately, a vast majority of the arguments put forth within peaker mythology should not be confused with an actual resource depletion debate.

For a vast majority of the people involved, PO is just a rationalization. For a minority, its an important scientific question. The qualifiers should really be reversed.


Three posts read and this guy, I'm adding to my list of "Mr" references. Eeek gads, I think he's got it!

Mr Short, I'll bet I know why you were banned. Wisdom beyond your time.
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Re: I.E.A. states we have 9 trillion barrels left

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 19:25:39

shortonsense wrote:
And now, with quite reasonable fuel prices since the summer of 2008, what is coming up next? Why, PHEV's and EV's to the regular consumer. And what else? Why...the wind generated electrical capacity to power them.


Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the BEST prognosticator declaration on this website yet. Mr Short spots the upcoming EV buildout, AND the wind generation frenzy, and he did this from the better part of a decade ago.

Does anyone know what happened to someone who obviously knew what was going on, while standing in a pile of doomers who could only ban him in response for being...RIGHT?
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: I.E.A. states we have 9 trillion barrels left

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 19:28:02

rangerone314 wrote:Hoorah! 9 trillion barrels left...

So when does oil production rise to 90 million barrels?


Apparently, just a few years after you made this comment!
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Re: I.E.A. states we have 9 trillion barrels left

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 19:31:31

TonyPrep wrote:
shortonsense wrote:Good thing I specialize in science and critical thinking
Oh boy.

Shakes head in disbelief.


Well Tony, if you can but point out a good prognostication you made back when everyone was screaming at you that it was impossible, I will add you to my Mr. list!!
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The IEA Is Grossly Overestimating Shale Growth

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 19 Nov 2017, 11:11:41


Production
This week, the IEA said that U.S. shale would dominate the oil and gas markets over the next decade, rising to “a level 50 percent higher than any other country has ever managed.” With a “remarkable ability to unlock new resources cost-effectively,” U.S. shale will add millions of barrels of new oil supply by 2025.


The IEA Is Grossly Overestimating Shale Growth
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: The IEA Is Grossly Overestimating Shale Growth

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 19 Nov 2017, 17:22:46

Could be. The thing is near everyone seems to be saying the same thing.

The financial experts all seem to buy in to the same projections.

I think the problem is the boom was so fast and so high it provided the illusion that you just need to inject money and fracking will deliver more oil. Those of us who were around here in 2013 watching were already seeing that a lot of the fracking wells completed in 2013-2015 were of lower quality than average. Granted from mid 2015 to now the quality is way up, but that is because with low prices there is no way to make back the cost with low production wells at $40/bbl.
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Re: The IEA Is Grossly Overestimating Shale Growth

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 19 Nov 2017, 17:40:06

"This week, the IEA said that U.S. shale would dominate the oil and gas markets over the next decade, rising to “a level 50 percent higher than any other country has ever managed."

Actually IEA's estimate is reasonable. It might have said 100 percent higher? Or even 1,000 percent . . . as no other country produces and markets oil (in meaningful amounts) from tight shale using horizontal fracting methods like the US. It appears we are the only ones with disposable income to afford Eau D'Bakken for our tanks.
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Re: The IEA Is Grossly Overestimating Shale Growth

Unread postby dissident » Sun 19 Nov 2017, 18:51:58

pstarr wrote:"This week, the IEA said that U.S. shale would dominate the oil and gas markets over the next decade, rising to “a level 50 percent higher than any other country has ever managed."

Actually IEA's estimate is reasonable. It might have said 100 percent higher? Or even 1,000 percent . . . as no other country produces and markets oil (in meaningful amounts) from tight shale using horizontal fracting methods like the US. It appears we are the only ones with disposable income to afford Eau D'Bakken for our tanks.


For now. Gzaprom et al. are testing out horizontal fracking for the development of the Bazhenov. At present there is no urgency to develop the Bazhenov since conventional supply is good enough. Clearly this is not longer the case for the USA, where the last dregs are being exploited.
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Re: The IEA Is Grossly Overestimating Shale Growth

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 19 Nov 2017, 19:36:22

Absolutely , they are overestimating
Shale bubble
http://shalebubble.org/
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Re: The IEA Is Grossly Overestimating Shale Growth

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 19 Nov 2017, 19:50:19

onlooker wrote:Absolutely , they are overestimating
Shale bubble
http://shalebubble.org/


PCI related stuff, sheer advocacy.
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