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US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 27 May 2012, 18:01:16

Its happening.

Truck manufacturers are offering NG versions of 18 wheelers, and trucking companies are converting their US fleet to run on NG.

US truckers are switching from diesel to NG

the shale-gas boom is rippling through transportation. Never before has the price gap between natural gas and diesel been so large, suddenly making natural-gas-powered trucks an alluring option for company fleets, rather than an impractical idea pushed mainly by natural-gas boosters like T. Boone Pickens, the Texas oilman. Railroad operators also are being affected as coal shipments decline.

Many fleet operators, particularly long-haul truckers, remain concerned about a scarcity of refueling stations. Other challenges include the bulky tanks for compressed gas and the hazards of handling liquefied gas. In the past, the volatility of natural-gas prices also hampered wider use.

But today, truck manufacturers are embracing natural gas for everything from bi-fuel pickup trucks like the Chevy Silverado HD to eighteen-wheelers that can burn natural gas either compressed, called CNG, or super-chilled, called LNG. Navistar International Corp., NAV +0.25% Cummins Inc. CMI -1.31% and General Motors Co. GM +1.81% all are courting the market with new natural-gas powered trucks or engines....... in a couple of years, one in three Navistar trucks sold will burn natural gas. "This is not a subsidy-driven market," Mr. Tech says. "It's developing on its own because the economics are compelling."

Companies like United Parcel Service Inc. UPS -0.32% and AT&T Inc. T +0.15% are buying the vehicles. AT&T recently ordered 1,200 Chevrolet Express cargo vans equipped to run on compressed natural gas, which GM said was its largest CNG vehicle order ever.

Ryder Systems began renting out natural gas trucks in California last yea. The response has been so strong Ryder is expanding the program to Michigan and Arizona. And it is introducing them in truck clusters it operates for big box retailers like Staples Inc. SPLS -0.59% and manufacturers including carpet-maker Mohawk Industries Inc. MHK -0.54%


Its a revolution-----the switch from Oil to NG is happening now.

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Mercedes Benz NG 18-wheeler.
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby dsula » Sun 27 May 2012, 18:07:21

Plantagenet wrote:Its happening.

That's impossible. It's our pstarr and several fellow doomers who promised that an investment in NG infrastructure could NEVER EVER possible happen EVER.
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Sun 27 May 2012, 19:11:08

I bet UPS and FedEx would be out of business by now if they had not already switched their fleets to NG.
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby dsula » Sun 27 May 2012, 19:32:05

pstarr wrote: impossible in the US for cross-country travel.

Why is that impossible? And why can't you start small?
There's about a million trucks running Los Angeles to San F. every day (on freeway 5). Is it really so unthinkable to install 3 NG refueling locations? LA, Bakerfield, SF?
Or LA to Phoenix. Or LA to Las Vegas.
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 27 May 2012, 20:24:09

What is impossible is for truckers to stick with diesel----its too expensive now and its just going to get worse.

The smart thing for truckers to do is shift to NG, the smart thing for truck manufacturers to do is to manufacture NG 18-wheelers, and the smart thing for truck stops to do is to add NG pumps.

And thats what happening right now.

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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Lore » Sun 27 May 2012, 20:42:24

pstarr wrote:
dsula wrote:
pstarr wrote: impossible in the US for cross-country travel.

Why is that impossible? And why can't you start small?
There's about a million trucks running Los Angeles to San F. every day (on freeway 5). Is it really so unthinkable to install 3 NG refueling locations? LA, Bakerfield, SF?
Or LA to Phoenix. Or LA to Las Vegas.

Sounds reasonable.


I don't know? Just read that a lot of those that have tried CNG had dumped the concept. Some of which, because they were not able to pack on enough CNG to make it through a normal service period.
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Sun 27 May 2012, 22:00:53

pstarr wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:Image
Mercedes Benz NG 18-wheeler.

You missed where she said, "She expects fastest adoption among fleets that can run on CNG and return home each night but is skeptical about long-haul trucking."

Which has been precisely my point all along, from the beginning, since we started these pointless pissing contests. CNG has alway been practical for fixed circuitous urban routes but impossible in the US for cross-country travel.

Interesting its an Aldi truck
All Aldi stores are less than an 8 hour round trip from a distribution centre so a truck driver can do it in a shift.
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Lore » Sun 27 May 2012, 22:10:01

Shaved Monkey wrote:
pstarr wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:Image
Mercedes Benz NG 18-wheeler.

You missed where she said, "She expects fastest adoption among fleets that can run on CNG and return home each night but is skeptical about long-haul trucking."

Which has been precisely my point all along, from the beginning, since we started these pointless pissing contests. CNG has alway been practical for fixed circuitous urban routes but impossible in the US for cross-country travel.

Interesting its an Aldi truck
All Aldi stores are less than an 8 hour round trip from a distribution centre so a truck driver can do it in a shift.


Simple solution then, everyone just has to build 8 hour round trip distribution centers from their oulets to make CNG work for them.
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 27 May 2012, 23:04:57

Lore wrote: everyone just has to build 8 hour round trip distribution centers from their oulets to make CNG work for them.


Thats one approach. I can't imagine any company doing that, but good try.

A better idea is to add NG to existing truck stops along the US interstate highway system so NG trucks can travel long distances and refuel along the way-----and thats what is actually happening now.

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Flying J truck stops across the USA are now adding NG
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 28 May 2012, 02:06:21

pstarr wrote:The NG Genie will build NG pipelines alone interstates


You think every gas station is connected to a pipeline?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! :roll:

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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby dinopello » Mon 28 May 2012, 11:19:52

It certainly is beneficial currently, that the entire Washington DC Metro area bus fleet has been running on CNG for over a decade. A decision that at the time was derided by the troglodites as a waste of money (it was mostly being put forth as an environmental benefit of less local emmissions).

As more heavy vehicles are converted to CNG, the price pressure on diesel comes down helping those users as well. I wonder what the assumptions are regarding future prices as these conversion decisions are being made. Does anyone out there think NG prices can go any lower than they are now or at we at the lowest price they will ever be? How extensive will the fracking and extracting have to be to increase production as the demand increases over the next few decades?
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 28 May 2012, 12:58:13

dinopello wrote: I wonder what the assumptions are regarding future prices as these conversion decisions are being made. Does anyone out there think NG prices can go any lower than they are now or at we at the lowest price they will ever be? How extensive will the fracking and extracting have to be to increase production as the demand increases over the next few decades?


NG prices can't go much lower----the E & P companies are going bust at these levels. Chances are the price of NG is going back up.

But NG doesn't have to stay at these low price levels to be attractive to trucking companies and truckers ---- it's price just has to stay lower than diesel.

And that seems likely to continue.

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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 28 May 2012, 13:33:57

pstarr wrote: work up those numbers for us.


Don't be so lazy. Read the graph and work it out the pricing for yourself.

You'll find that NG is much cheaper then diesel.

Thats why truckers are switching to NG trucks, truck manufacturers are bringing out NG models, and truck stops are adding NG pumps across the USA .

Get it now? :)

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NG use for transport is increasing rapidly in the EU, Brazil, and Asia, as well in the USA
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Re: US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 28 May 2012, 14:05:16

pstarr wrote: How many watts/btu's/$'s does it cost to compress the equivalent BTU's NG to replace liquid petroleum.


How many dollars does it cost to refine petroleum to gasoline and diesel? How many more to transport it by oil tanker from Kuwait to a terminal in Texas and load it on a tanker truck and truck it up to a truck stop in Ohio built on top of the Marcellus Shale, one of the largest NG fields in North America?

Wouldn't it make more sense just to use the NG found in Ohio to power trucks in Ohio?

Face facts: NG is cheaper. :)
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