US truckers switching from Diesel to NG

[ralfy]

Re; EROEI for natural gas and this topic, is this helpful, if not related?

"North American Natural Gas Production and EROI Decline"

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3673

[pstarr]

So Plant, your response to my objections is to throw up another distraction. It's easy-peasy for Fiat to announce a carburetor/fuel tank option. Cost nothing but a press release. It won't protect our easy-motoring way of life. A pretty girl under a white catsuit is no answer to what lies ahead. Once compressed, CNG must be handled by trained experts with very expensive equipment. It is unimaginably explosive (even party helium, a scuba tank, is dangerous at 10,000 psi). And so unlike conventional liquid petroleum, CNG can not easily be transported cross-country (where it is needed) and simply be poured from a delivery truck into a service station tank. It would be like driving C4 around town. That is why there are no CNG services (with the exception of several Picken's promotions) outside the dense urban routes, where the pipelines, $1million compressors, and fixed routes are. That's why CNG will never fly, much less truck.

The hapless trucker dumb enough to be suckered by your cute sales scam would be left with his fuel hose limp and lonely in the parking lot. With no CNG service to get his Big Rig log-jammin', that good ole' boy would be a danglin'. (kinda rhymes, don't it?) I wouldn't lie to our brave Truckers. Out in Real America, that Big-Assed "C" stands for Country.. Not CNG

Plant, there is an obvious political dimension to your strident pandering and distractions. Both your pet projects here at PO.com, NG fracting/horizontal drilling and CNG trucks are old, failed technologies gussied up with new promotions, investment programs, and hot chicks, etc. in a desperate attempt to promote "energy independence" that would maintain our happy-motoring forever. It goes along nicely with your Republican hate-filled attacks on President Obama. This is clearly in keeping with the Corporate attack on environmentalism, localism, and real change. Keeping the masses sucking on the fossil-fuel tit ensures that TPTB remain firmly in control.

[Plantagenet]

FIAT commits to build CNG vehicles


Good choice, Fiat babe. Would you like a CNG fill-up now?

A pretty girl under a white catsuit is no answer to what lies ahead.

Maybe not for you, but a pretty girl in a white catsuit lying on top of a CNG-capable Fiat answers quite a few questions about what comes ahead for me.

[Lore]

I've worked for Italian companies for about 25 years. Great people, super on innovation, poor on execution.

[Plantagenet]

I've worked for Italian companies for about 25 years. Great people, super on innovation, poor on execution.

Fiat has been acting like a world-class company recently. They've turned around Chrysler nicely after taking it over in 2009.

Fiat's announcement that they wouldn't build electric vehicles, but instead would develop and build CNG vehicles puts another major auto maker behind CNG.

[pstarr]

I've worked for Italian companies for about 25 years. Great people, super on innovation, poor on execution.

If there is one thing Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Maserati do, it's execute.

[Lore]

I've worked for Italian companies for about 25 years. Great people, super on innovation, poor on execution.

If there is one thing Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Maserati do, it's execute.

As I said great on innovation. One of my former bosses owned a Ferrari, which saw the inside of the mechanics shop more then the sunshine. Most of the Italian execs drove BMW every day to get to the office.

[Lore]

I've worked for Italian companies for about 25 years. Great people, super on innovation, poor on execution.

Fiat has been acting like a world-class company recently. They've turned around Chrysler nicely after taking it over in 2009.

Fiat's announcement that they wouldn't build electric vehicles, but instead would develop and build CNG vehicles puts another major auto maker behind CNG.

Fiat has been here before. They have yet to have much influence over the actual engineering of the Chrysler brand, other then just reintroducing the Dodge Dart. We will see how it does after they bring out the reconfigured Jeep Grand Cherokee with Italian components in 2013.

[Plantagenet]

Fiat... have yet to have much influence over the actual engineering of the Chrysler brand

IMHO, Fiat has already had a huge influence on Chrysler. For many years Chryslers were crappy cars---they were poorly made and poorly manufactured and broke down all the time. Fiat came in and made quality #1---they re-engineered the assembly line to maximize quality control---any problems and they shut down the whole assembly line until it is fixed. Period.

...quality controls aren't new to the auto industry. However, Mr. Betts said that under the Fiat ownership, this is the first time Chrysler has bolstered and expanded its quality controls throughout its manufacturing plants.
--WSJ

The increase in quality is already showing up in a huge increase in sales.

Having a world-class vehicle manufacturer like Fiat commit to CNG vehicles (while ignoring electric vehicles) is a good thing for the future of CNG vehicles. Having Fiat join Honda, BMW, Volvo, GM, and truck manufacturers in bringing out NG vehicles shows a growing commitment to a NG future for vehicles


Fiats are sexy!

[Lore]

Fiat... have yet to have much influence over the actual engineering of the Chrysler brand

IMHO, Fiat has already had a huge influence on Chrysler. For many years Chryslers were crappy cars---they were poorly made and poorly manufactured and broke down all the time. Fiat came in and made quality #1---they re-engineered the assembly line to maximize quality control---any problems and they shut down the whole assembly line until it is fixed. Period.

...quality controls aren't new to the auto industry. However, Mr. Betts said that under the Fiat ownership, this is the first time Chrysler has bolstered and expanded its quality controls throughout its manufacturing plants.
--WSJ

The increase in quality is already showing up in a huge increase in sales.

Having a world-class vehicle manufacturer like Fiat commit to CNG vehicles (while ignoring electric vehicles) is a good thing for the future of CNG vehicles. Having Fiat join Honda, BMW, Volvo, GM, and truck manufacturers in bringing out NG vehicles shows a growing commitment to a NG future for vehicles

IMHO, and others, they have a long way to go. Let's not forget that Fiat also sets squarely in the EU mess. NG will remain a side show for most of these companies for many years to come.

J.D. Power and Associates ratings for nearly all of the higher volume Chrysler vehicles – Chrysler 200, 300, and Town & Country, Dodge Avenger, Durango, and Charger, and the Jeep Compass, Liberty, and Grand Cherokee – continue to lag behind comparable models from Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota, and Honda on key metrics like powertrain dependability, body/interior dependability, and feature/accessory dependability. 

Making improvements upon the “Old” Chrysler will not translate into a prolonged period of above-average market share when the competition is continuously touted for their absolute levels of quality.
http://beta.fool.com/gibbstom13/2012/04 ... sler/3324/

[Plantagenet]

NG will remain a side show for most of these companies for many years to come...

Possibly----it depends on how quickly oil prices go up due to peak oil. As oil prices go higher, alternative fuels like NG become more attractive.

Some trucking lines are converting parts of their fleets to NG now.

[Lore]

NG will remain a side show for most of these companies for many years to come...

Possibly----it depends on how quickly oil prices go up due to peak oil. As oil prices go higher, alternative fuels like NG become more attractive.

Some trucking lines are converting parts of their fleets to NG now.

Yes, and as more try to switch to less expensive alternatives, the prices of those will also go up accordingly. Simple law of supply and demand.

I would also add, that on an energy equivalent, NG gives you about 70% of the value of oil.

[Plantagenet]

Mack Trucks announces two new models for 2013 that run on Natural Gas

Mack Trucks to run on NG


New Mack NG trucks hitting the road in 2013 will do their part to help in the fight against peak oil

[Plantagenet]

While the feds continue to tout costly electric cars, state goverments plan switch from gasoline to NG

state governments starting to switch fleets to NG

This will facilitate state by state growth of NG gas stations.

[pstarr]

Here's an idea planty! Try acting like a "scientist" instead of a partisan republican "consumer".

Show us some "progress," data demonstrating an ongoing and active conversion to NG; ie. historic conversions, past, current, and projected conversion. Those numbers should demonstrate when NG use will increase enought to mitigate the ongoing decline of conventional crude production and the depletion of reserves. Yeah, that kind of stuff. Not press releases. okay? thanks

[peripato]

Here's an idea planty! Try acting like a "scientist" instead of a partisan republican "consumer".

Show us some "progress," data demonstrating an ongoing and active conversion to NG; ie. historic conversions, past, current, and projected conversion. Those numbers should demonstrate when NG use will increase enought to mitigate the ongoing decline of conventional crude production and the depletion of reserves. Yeah, that kind of stuff. Not press releases. okay? thanks

Indeed, what a laff. There's only about 15 million NG/CNG powered vehicles in the entire world as of last year and most of them, retain the ability to use, or even require the use of ordinary everyday petrol!

[Pretorian]

I've seen trucks working on NG decades ago.

[dsula]

I've seen trucks working on NG decades ago.

Where? In Pretoria?

[Plantagenet]

NG vehicle sales are increasing rapidly, and are projected to reach 15 million vehicles PER YEAR globally by 2015 (sales estimate is trucks and cars combined). Key vendors dominating the NG market space include Fiat S.p.A., Ford Motor Co., Suzuki Motors Corp., Volkswagen AG,. Honda Motor Co. Ltd., Toyota Motor Corp., Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, Mercedes-Benz, Renault S.A., Capacity of Texas Inc., Cummins Westport Inc., Freightliner, Volvo, Weichai Power Co. Ltd., Altech-Eco Corp., Fuel Systems Solutions Inc., GNC Galileo S.A., Kraus Global Inc., Magneti Marelli S.p.A., and Bosch Group


Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/02/468522 ... rylink=cpy

[Pretorian]

I've seen trucks working on NG decades ago.

Where? In Pretoria?

No , I've seen those trucks in Soviet Union. Gasoline was ridiculously cheap , so obviously it wasn't an act of desperation.