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US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over heads

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US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over heads

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 12 Nov 2014, 16:11:30

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QINe6ydEvLs#t=14, the nationalist youth gang yells "yankee go home" and puts plastic garbage bags over the US sailors' heads.

Here's what's going on with Turkey: they've been drifting more fundamentalist muslim for a few years now, starting with their current PM, and there's been a lot of protests over that and the moderate muslum Turks don't like this turn to more fundamentalist islam.

So that's the deal, Turkey's been changing. They've also been making some overtures with Putin's Russia in the last year. And they haven't been helping the US with ISIL, either.

Video: USS Ross Sailors Assaulted in Turkey

Navy Statement on Istanbul, Turkey Incident

An incident took place today involving three U.S. Navy Sailors assigned to the Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer USS Ross (DDG 71), which is on a scheduled port visit to Istanbul, Turkey.

The incident, which was recorded on video and posted to the internet, shows approximately 20 individuals, claiming to be from the “Turkish Youth Union,” verbally and physically assaulting the Sailors while on liberty in Istanbul.

The Sailors managed to remove themselves from the situation without sustaining injuries and are safely back aboard USS Ross.

The U.S. Navy is currently working with the Turkish National Police and U.S. Embassy staff to investigate this incident. The U.S. Navy will continue to coordinate with Turkish authorities to review security procedures for future ship visits.

We have enjoyed a strong relationship with Turkey for many years. As NATO allies, we share common interests, and this incident will not diminish that strong relationship. Turkish ports have long been very popular destinations for U.S. Navy ships, and our Sailors have enjoyed the warm hospitality that has traditionally been extended.
http://news.usni.org/2014/11/12/video-uss-ross-sailors-assaulted-turkey
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Re: US navy sailors assaulted by Turkish youth, bags over he

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 12 Nov 2014, 16:31:53

I don't know what ideology the Turkish youth gang was or what their angle is, but anyhow their current PM is more muslim fundamentalist than previous Turkish leadership.

Turkey has remained strong its position regarding Crimea though, they're worried about the Tatars in Crimea, and they have a Joint Strategic Planning Group with the Kiev government:

KIEV — Turkey is planning to send an unofficial delegation to inspect the situation of Crimean Tatars in the Russian-annexed peninsula, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said on Monday.

"Turkey is closely following the situation of Crimean Tatars who are unfortunately being repressed by a de facto administration," Çavuşoğlu said at a joint press conference with his Ukrainian counterpart, Pavlo Klimkin, after attending a Turkey-Ukraine Joint Strategic Planning Group meeting in Kiev.

Ukraine's Crimean Tatars make up roughly 13 percent of the Crimean population. The peninsula opted for annexation with Russia in a referendum on March 16, a vote not recognized by Kiev and Western powers.

"Turkey will never recognize Crimea's annexation," Çavuşoğlu stressed, adding that talks were ongoing with Ukrainian officials to establish ways to help Crimean Tatars.

The minister also reiterated Turkey's support for Ukraine's territorial integrity, including Crimea, and thanked Kiev for the support it had extended to Crimean Tatars.

"Turkey has always supported Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity," Klimkin said, thanking Çavuşoğlu for backing Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko's peace plan to resolve the situation in the eastern part of the country, where the conflict between government forces and pro-Russian separatists has escalated.
http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2014/11/11/turkey-to-monitor-the-situation-in-crimea
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Wed 12 Nov 2014, 16:44:42

Turkey is IS gatekeeper. Nearly all foreign recruits for IS are coming through. Turkey. It has appallingly high public support for Jihad & suicide bombers. Another example of EU folly.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 12 Nov 2014, 17:19:27

Fox news report on it:

A throng of radical Turkish nationalists roughed up a trio of U.S. Navy servicemen in Istanbul on Wednesday, pulling bags over their heads and shouting, “Yankees go home!” in an incident captured on video.

In the video, which was quickly posted on YouTube, a group of roughly 20 men carrying a banner with Turkish founding father Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's face on it pelt the sailors with garbage and paint before surrounding them and pulling bags over their heads.

“Because we define you as murderers, as killers, we want you to get out of our land,” one of the assailants is heard saying. “Damn America!”

The sailors were not injured and were safely back aboard the guided missile destroyer the USS Ross, Capt. Greg Hicks, a spokesman at European Command, told Fox News. The ship had been docked in Turkey following a NATO drill in the Black Sea, according to U.S. officials. The Ross routinely makes patrols in the Mediterranean from its home port in Rota, Spain.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/12/video-shows-turkish-mob-attacking-us-navy-sailors/


USA has problems with *nationalists*, the world over. Nationalists in Russia. Nationalists in China. Nationalists in the EU istelf, the Front Nationale.

These nationalists are fascists. And then we've got the usual gang of religious fascists, in the middle east.

Anti-americanism has consequences. All the Noam Chomsky books, the RT, Ron Paul and Rand Paul's views, they all add up and pile up in the global zeitgeist of anti-americanism to the extreme of we've got Americans over here spouting anti-American views.

It's not helpful, when you tear down the USA -- and you're actually an American, yourself -- then whose side are you on, those nationalist thugs that attacked those US Navy sailor kids? Is that whose side you're on, with your Noam Chomsky books and Ron Paul's views that actually just enable and feed into our country's enemies?

You all need to think about that, if you're an American but anti-American -- whose side are you on, what are you helping to feed into, in the global zeitgeist.

Look at China and that APEC meeting.

Their president made Putin and Obama and everyone else dress up in oriental outfits and kowtow. And the first lady of China didn't look happy at all when Putin put a shawl on her -- she took that thing off really fast and her aides looked alarmed and gave her a jacket. The body language there was that Russia is the junior partner, and you don't put a shawl on the empress. Russia just got to stand closer to the Chinese communist party chairman, that's all.

But China's in charge, and on the rise.

They had a press conference. New York Times reporter asked their president about press freedoms and press access in China. You know what he did? He just took his translation earbuds out and ignored the question. And then he turned to a Chinese state media question, and read a prepared answer off a notecard -- the question was planted to start with.

The whole thing got awkward, and he finally gave a little answer to the American journalist saying some thing like those that have press problems in China need to look to themselves for why they have problems.

And then I read that at some point he praised a popular Chinese nationalist blogger. The blogger writes nothing but horrible anti-US vitriol. Really childish and naive and over the top crazy stuff, like "America treats China like Hitler treated the Jews." That's just insane.

China is *starting* to get a little scary. They have a billion + people. They have that hive mind thing going on over there, you really do not want a billion Chinese whipped up into nationalism, that will be very dangerous.

And you know what? There are no "Noam Chomsky's" in China. They're honest to God nationalists over there, they're on the rise and proud of it and they are getting aggressive. They don't feel guilty or question themselves in the least.

So what's going to happen to us, are we going to read our Noam Chomsky books and self-hate while China and Russia rolls all over us, waving their flags, boisterous and so nationalist and proud?
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 12 Nov 2014, 17:59:38

I know I'm over the top too, my main points I just want to make are:

* Ever since Iraq, anti-Americanism swept the world and unfortunately too many Americans got too anti-American themselves, now we face a world of rising nationalism and fascism, but we've still got too many of our own people stuck in these anti-American views themselves.

Meanwhile, the Chinese don't self-doubt one little bit, and not too many Russians do either. So where does that leave us going forward, we're mired in Noam Chomsky books and self-doubt while these other rising great powers are so proud of themselves. They'll keep talking about Iraq for the next fifty years, meanwhile they'll rack up another twenty Crimeas and South China sea type annexations, and they'll just be proud of it all and not self-doubt one little bit.

* Regardless of where you stand on the issues, you have to recognize that nationalism is sweeping the world. In Russia, in China, in Europe itself with all their nazi-ish Front Nationale far extreme right parties. They're all nationalists. Even Japan has a nationalist PM now. And then there's militant islam in the middle east, and spreading into the west too -- that's fascism too, it's just religious fascism.

* We may, at some point, have to put the Noam Chomsky books and self-doubt away. There are enough anti-Americans out there in the world, we don't have to add to it ourselves.

In a world of rising nationalism, with Russians and Chinese being so proud, we may have to find some pride again ourselves.

I'm no nationalist or fascist, but if liberty comes under assault and you've got to pick some kind of nationalism, then I think fascism for liberty is the best of all options. Extremist muslims have their values and ideology behind it all, and we've got ours too -- free speech, human rights, constitutional rights, democracy, elections, doing the right thing. Being the good guys but not doormats either that are just going to get run all over.

If nothing else it's just real politik and you've got to get behind your flag at some point, if you've got much of the rest of the world waving their flags and shouting "Damn America" like these Turkish nationalists.

And another thing about China -- Obama gave big concessions to them, he promised extending visas for Chinese from one year to ten years, and for students from one year to five years. Which I guess is okay, unless they're just looking to colonize -- hopefully get their students over here and we can talk some sense into them. :lol:

But while this APEC was going on, at that very moment the Chinese were also hacking the US postal service comptuers. :roll:

EDIT: I've got CNN on now, Wolf Blitzer is talking about "did China steal the technology for their new stealth jet," and "is China behind the recent destruction of the US weather forecasting system."

Guys it's just one thing after another, Russia and China, we're getting pushed around so much -- hacked, our tech stolen, our copyrighted intellectual property stolen, our "American exceptionalsim" derided -- while at the same time these very same people, Russians and Chinese, are puffing themselves up with so much nationalism and pride.

I don't know anymore, it just seems like we're pushed around all over the place and we never respond. Obama just goes to China and gets at the back of the line to kowtow to them, and worst of all he wore that crazy outfit. What was that about. Look, I like samurai outfits but if our president visits Japan they don't make us dress in traditional kimonos -- we are not Japanese.

I think that outfit thing was sending a message of dominance. Obama shouldn't have even gone over there, to start with. Or, if you go then wear a SUIT -- to send a message right back to them. Wear a suit and be independent and dignified and polite and talk to the other leaders in the Pacific and offer an alternative to Chinese leadership.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 12 Nov 2014, 18:49:17

Back on topic to the thread, more from the Foxnews report:

The Kurdish fighters in Kobani are linked to the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, a Turkish guerilla group that is hated by many inside Turkey.

“We find it ugly and disturbing and we condemn that attack, executed by what appeared to be thugs on the street," Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren said Wednesday. "We are working closely with Turkish authorities to have this investigated and to get to the bottom of exactly what happened. These attackers bring great discredit upon the Turks and the Turkish reputation for hospitality which I think is well known.

No travel warnings have been issued for Turkey and there are currently no travel restrictions for U.S. troops. A spokesman for the Turkish embassy in Washington had no comment on the incident.


So maybe that's what this is about. Because the US supports the kurds, in Syria.

Well.. what nationalist thugs in Turkey do not understand is that stuff is complicated in the world, things aren't so simple as the average man on the street sees them whether that's in Istanbul or Kansas.

We have a national defense interest in Syria. ISIS is doing attacks from Australia to Britain to the US. They were beheading Americans.

IF TURKS DON'T WANT US ARMING KURDS, then nato ally TURKEY could have rolled that big army they've got right on into Syria and help us out with this. Turkey won't do it, so all we've got are the kurds. What else are we supposed to do, somebody's got to fight ISIS other than Russia's man in Syria that nerve gasses people.

Things are just complex and complicated, and of course a Turkish nationalist youth gang does not understand that. But whatever, it is what it is, Turkey you are with us or not with us and if you don't like it that kurds have stepped up to be with us then the US will just have to dock its navy ships in Ukraine or somewhere we're better liked. And American tourists and businessmen stay out of Turkey.

My prediction: Turkey's gov is actually with us, they'll track those thugs down and they'll be prosecuted.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 12 Nov 2014, 20:50:00

Some updates on this:

* That nationalist group went looking for US sailors, on purpose

* They wanted to make a propaganda thing with that video and get a response out of the sailors or a fight; the sailors handled themselves perfectly though. The nationalists just look like thugs, which is what they are, they didn't get any propaganda out of those sailors.

* Hopefully they get prosecuted and see the inside of a dark turkish prison. You can't assault people on the street like that, no matter who they are, and just tape it and put it on youtube.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby AndyA » Wed 12 Nov 2014, 21:20:56

Must be time to liberate Turkey next? Hard to understand why they don't want US troops in their country, after all there are plenty of Turkish troops in the US.

30 years ago this would never have happened, an American could go anywhere in the world and people would love them for being American, yet America managed to burn through most of that 'good will' in record time and now there is a growing anti American sentiment, resulting in attacks in any way people can manage. Even some americans are starting to realise how they are getting fucked over by their own leaders whose actions show a complete dedication to corporate interests and total disregard for average people.

I also noticed this stunningly ignorant quote above "The peninsula opted for annexation with Russia in a referendum on March 16" though we are starting to get to the stage where at least the fact that there was a vote is being mentioned.
If you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against. The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease. -Sen-ts'an
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 13 Nov 2014, 03:20:10

Sixstrings wrote:USA has problems with *nationalists*, the world over. Nationalists in Russia. Nationalists in China. Nationalists in the EU istelf, the Front Nationale..

Ukrainian Svoboda nationalists?
Of course, Americans are not nationalistic. :lol:
Sixstrings wrote:These nationalists are fascists. And then we've got the usual gang of religious fascists, in the middle east.
And of course, you are not including our favourite middle east tribe who are born with entitlements due to their bronze age genetic ancestry.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby GHung » Thu 13 Nov 2014, 10:47:54

Sixstrings:
"Is that whose side you're on, with your Noam Chomsky books and Ron Paul's views that actually just enable and feed into our country's enemies?"


Unlike (seemingly) most Americans, some of us don't subscribe to binary thinking. Your "either/or", "us-or-them" way of thinking is the typical way many Americans go out into the world; the kind of hubris that brings about the sort of behavior we see in this article. It makes it hard for those of us who want to go abroad and actually learn something. The greatest mistake Americans make is thinking they can 'fix' the world, and that they have the right to do so. Reeks of fear, really.

@AndyA who said "30 years ago this would never have happened, an American could go anywhere in the world and people would love them for being American..."

I have to call you out on this one, Andy. I travelled in 42 countries before my 30th birthday, mainly in the late 70's and 80's, and encountered anti-Americanism in many places. Outside of western Europe and Australia, the most American-friendly place I went (studied) was the USSR. Later, while in the service, the one place we felt totally safe was Israel. In the Middle East/ Persian Gulf, we always watched our backs, and were instructed to do so, to watch our behavior while on liberty. I expect that these sailors were told to do the same during their "cultural briefing", prior to going ashore. Even then, we were subject to abuse as Americans. I'm a bit baffled, considering current events, that Turkey was chosen as a liberty port.

Those of you who think it's 'the rest of the world's fault' that Americans get treated this way have either 'been nowhere/done nothing', or didn't learn much there.

I love my kids at least as much as I love my country, but I never hesitate to call them on bad behavior and bad choices. It's time Americans gave themselves and their nation some tough love. Nationalism isn't conducive to situational awareness.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 13 Nov 2014, 16:25:18

Just an update on this.

In my above post I mentioned how Turkey in the last few years made a swing to more fundamentalist muslim (by Turkish standards), with the election of their current government.

But it turns out this nationalsit gang aren't fundy muslim, they're secularists opposed to the fundy muslims.

So isn't that ironic, we've got right and left both disliking us in Turkey.

And it was the secular crowd that attacked these sailors!

Per CNN, the "bags" they put over the sailors heads was supposedly in reference to a Turkish pow that got a bag put over his head by US soldiers in Iraq, at some point back in the old Iraq war or something. I don't know the details on that, I'm sure if a Turk ran afoul of US soldiers in Iraq then that Turk was probably on jihad.

But anyhow that's what CNN said.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 13 Nov 2014, 16:45:25

Keith_McClary wrote:Ukrainian Svoboda nationalists?
Of course, Americans are not nationalistic. :lol:

...

And of course, you are not including our favourite middle east tribe who are born with entitlements due to their bronze age genetic ancestry.


Keith -- the difference between our views is that I am more conservative.

Conservatives tend to like people that like them in return, and don't attack them.

While liberals are apologists and enablers. That's about what it comes down to.

Ukrainian "svboda" aren't flying nuclear bombers in the Gulf of Mexico. Whereas the Russian Federation has announced they're going to start doing that; and their government is cheered on by Russian nationalists.

So look, what side am I supposed to take -- Ukrainians aren't flying bombers off my front porch, but Russians are.

Ukrainian Svboda haven't sent warships down to Australia to bully them.

I've read the very long wiki on svoboda -- and don't laugh, wiki is actually a great source to get an objective take on a subject. I've read their platform (I ain't gonna go to their websites, but I read it on wiki). I've read about their evolution over the years, how they were a lot more "nazi" years ago and now it's not really like that. They moderated a lot and went more mainstream.

I read their platform -- keith, it's just conservative stuff same as you see in Canada or US.

I don't see any outright nazi things coming from them, if you can show that then make that case.

Show me the gangs of svboda thugs in Kiev beating up gay people and posting it on youtube.

Show me some journalism that shows anything they've done to jews.

Show me some journalism on this that shows it's a big problem, like we see about Russia, and if I see that and it looks like as big of a nazi problem as what is in Russia, THEN I WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT THAT. And definitely stop supporting them, if they were really a "bunch of nazis" and donig horrible things to minorities, I'd be the first to write my congressman and say to not give them any support.

But it's just not the case. They're not even as bad nazis as what Russia has, in Russia they actually get those laws passed, in Russia their minorities really are getting bad harassed and attacked.

But even IF Ukrainian far hard right were as bad as Russian right wing, the fact still remains that in Ukraine they only get 5% of the vote.

The line you're pushing is just not true, it's the Russian propaganda line, it's not right you can't keep saying it that Ukraine is a bunch of nazis. Meanwhile you are blind to what hard right nationalists in Russia do, and now look at these secular rightist nationalists in Turkey attacking Americans.

Nationalists, nationalists everywhere -- in Russia, in China, in Turkey.

And yes Keith, among our allies too -- a small element in Ukraine, and you know Japan has a nationalist PM now did you know that? And yes, Israel has a nationalist bent but they've also got a massive liberal wing too.

The world's gone nationalist, wake up Keith look at your own country of Canada and Stephen Harper -- I have never, in my whole life, ever seen such tough talk and toughness coming out of Canada. Of all places.

Bottom line on it -- world is full of nationalists lately, some are a lot worse than others, and some are really about the same as our Republicans over here. Some are out to get us, some are our friends.

If Ukrainian nationalists aren't beating up their minorities or passing laws like that, and also they aren't attacking Americans, then we need all the friends we can get cuz otherwise there's other nationalists out there that have it out for us.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 14 Nov 2014, 01:54:58

Sixstrings wrote:Keith -- the difference between our views is that I am more conservative.

Conservatives tend to like people that like them in return, and don't attack them.
That's why the Iranian conservatives don't like you.

Sixstrings wrote:And yes, Israel has a nationalist bent but they've also got a massive liberal wing too.
Not lately. If ever. They are just as ethno-religious nationalist as they were in 1948 when they ethnically cleansed the Christians and Muslims in 1948.

Sixstrings wrote:The world's gone nationalist, wake up Keith look at your own country of Canada and Stephen Harper -- I have never, in my whole life, ever seen such tough talk and toughness coming out of Canada. Of all places.
It's all talk, amplified by taxpayer funded TV propaganda. He has a majority government only because the the opposition vote is split between the other parties.

Sixstrings wrote:Bottom line on it -- world is full of nationalists lately, some are a lot worse than others, and some are really about the same as our Republicans over here.
Who want to bomb anyone who stands in the way of American "interests" (they never specify what "interest$" means).

Sixstrings wrote:If Ukrainian nationalists aren't beating up their minorities or passing laws like that, and also they aren't attacking Americans, then we need all the friends we can get cuz otherwise there's other nationalists out there that have it out for us.
That's the problem - all the friends you can get are corrupt thugs and, as the saying goes, patriotism (= nationalism) is the last resort of a scoundrel.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 14 Nov 2014, 05:48:02

Keith_McClary wrote:That's the problem - all the friends you can get are corrupt thugs and, as the saying goes, patriotism (= nationalism) is the last resort of a scoundrel.


Oh Keith.. I think it's cool, those Canadian pilots defending the skies in Lithuania. What's wrong with some national pride, when it's for the right thing, for liberty, for our values that actually matter and are actually different than some of what goes on in Russia, and nationalist totalitarian China. Where a journalist can't even dare to pose a question, to the communist party chairman.

I support the underdog, the vulnerable, the defenseless, people that have gotten the shaft and treated wrong for so long. The downtrodden. People at the bottom with nowhere to go but up, if only they can escape an oppressor holding them down; it's an epic story, it's good vs. evil, it's Poland and Solidarity. It's Yeltsin standing on that tank, back before Russia lost its way. It's the Ukrainians today, in 2014.

It's the students in Hong Kong, protesting for the free elections they were promised.

It's the Latvians -- who can hear their story, and not be moved, and not want to ensure they remain independent:

KGB, torture and Soviet terror: why Latvia worries about today’s Russia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kksq7Rlt5-o


The only objective person I've ever seen on this forum is Dorlomin, who doesn't post much but that was nice to see, not just another "Noam Chomsky" lefty but a lefty that has REAL values and applies them across the board.

Whereas someone as yourself can't get past "Israel," you're so stuck on Israel, and of course bad ole' USA, meanwhile you can't find anything bad to say about Russia or China -- if you really cared about lefty human rights, as I do, you'd be concerned about some things going on in Russia.

But you aren't.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Withnail » Fri 14 Nov 2014, 08:53:57

Sixstrings wrote:My prediction: Turkey's gov is actually with us, they'll track those thugs down and they'll be prosecuted.


Seems you've at least got the message that it's corrupt governments and their security apparatus you rely on in your vassal states, not the ordinary people.

Any sign of any arrests? It's not like the Turkish activists were hiding their identities.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 14 Nov 2014, 13:41:16

Sixstrings wrote:Whereas someone as yourself can't get past "Israel," you're so stuck on Israel,
No, it's just that when you prattle endlessly about human rights and international law you conspicuously don't mention the "elephants in the room", Saudi Arabia and Israel.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby misterno » Sat 15 Nov 2014, 01:09:47

Calm down guys

This is just a minor event

Several years ago American Soldiers put bags over turkish soldiers' heads in north Iraq

so this event is just a revenge that is all.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sat 15 Nov 2014, 23:06:27

Sixstrings wrote:* We may, at some point, have to put the Noam Chomsky books and self-doubt away. There are enough anti-Americans out there in the world, we don't have to add to it ourselves.

In a world of rising nationalism, with Russians and Chinese being so proud, we may have to find some pride again ourselves.

I'm no nationalist or fascist, but if liberty comes under assault and you've got to pick some kind of nationalism, then I think fascism for liberty is the best of all options.
You know Six, the way you have to keep telling people "I'm not a fascist" is sort of like someone that keeps saying "I'm not gay!" At some point you should just come out of the closet, because you aren't fooling anyone.
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Re: US navy sailors assulted by Turkish youth, bags over hea

Unread postby careinke » Mon 17 Nov 2014, 01:21:58

Six,

When I was in Turkey for Provide Comfort (Dropping food to the Kurds at the end of Desert Storm), the PKK were Kurds sneaking into Turkey from Northern Iraq.

As a matter of fact I watched Turkish F-4s bomb the Kurds (PKK) in Northern Iraq. Then about two hours later we ran an airdrop to them giving them food. One of the weirdest days of my life.

Anyway, I doubt the PKK is mad at the US for supporting the Kurds.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
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