[dissident]

can you imagine civilian targets not being hit during WW2 ?

hell
we'd still be fighting

who produces the weapons for the soldiers to keep fighting ?
who produces the food?
who produces all the military hardware?
are the roads that the supplies are sent on separate for military and civilian?

if you are going to fight a war
then damn it FIGHT A WAR !
and end it as soon as possible

The US and its pals had over one year to bomb this "legitimate" target yet they waited until the SAA, thanks to Russian assistance, is on he verge of retaking Aleppo. There is no comparison to WWII and it is tiresome to hear the endless comparison to WWII from politics to military action. This is not 1943.

BTW, the US bombed the Aleppo electricity plant after Russia started its campaign against the Salafi nest in Syria.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/10/13 ... s-strange/

[dissident]

:roll:

Yeah, the propagandist bootlick blowhard Cog is screaming about propaganda. What a loser.

[Cog]

:roll:

Yeah, the propagandist bootlick blowhard Cog is screaming about propaganda. What a loser.

[Satori]

"This is not 1943."

LOL

someone ALWAYS says "it's different this time"

learn from the past or repeat your mistakes

[Keith_McClary]

No problem. After "Mission Accomplished", when we get to the "Nation Building" phase, US taxpayers can pay Halliburton or some other Corp to build a new water plant.

[Satori]

Haliburton build a water plant ?

WTF ???

it would be cheaper for the locals to drink imported French champagne

[SeaGypsy]

Or use oil to burn seawater fresh like millions of other dumb Arabs.

[ROCKMAN]

"Haliburton build a water plant ?" Much more likely would be done by a Chinese company IMHO.

As far as who bombed what I hope I'm not overestimating the ability of our military: I would like to think the US govt has continuous AWAC coverage over the entire theater. That's assuming they were so ordered to by the current administration. Besides being able to read the IFF signals (BTW the AWACS Next Generation Identification Friend or Foe (NGIFF) recently completed the first installation of the new AN/UPX-40 system) they can also track (and RECORD) the flight paths of every aircraft in the region. If the AWACs were on station then the US govt knows exactly who did what.

[dissident]

"This is not 1943."

LOL

someone ALWAYS says "it's different this time"

learn from the past or repeat your mistakes

BS. The US and its pals are not facing anything like Hitler in terms of military and economic resources. They are facing their own creation called ISIS (aka Daesh). While in 1943 there was real bombing of German targets there is now the phony pretend bombing theater. Supposedly the US was reluctant to bomb the thousands of ISIS oil trucks because it could hurt the environment. So tell me again how is this comparable to 1943.

[Sixstrings]

BS. The US and its pals are not facing anything like Hitler in terms of military and economic resources. They are facing their own creation called ISIS (aka Daesh). While in 1943 there was real bombing of German targets there is now the phony pretend bombing theater. Supposedly the US was reluctant to bomb the thousands of ISIS oil trucks because it could hurt the environment. So tell me again how is this comparable to 1943.

Just so you know diss, we have some presidential candidates that want to defeat ISIS. Jeb Bush is one.

Radical islam is a major threat to Russia as well, which I'm sure you know.

Radical islam is a threat to both countries, whereas Russia and the US aren't really even a threat to each other.

The trouble with everything is that the US has a allied bloc already and then Putin came in and wants to make a bloc with Iran.

It's not good. That deal Russia has with Iran, Putin bears a lot of blame because he has picked his pet shia muslims.

The three dimensional chess games ought to stop, and Russia and US work out the best deal that both can work out so that both countries can keep a lid on / defeat radical islam.

I don't know what's going to happen in the future. If Russia cannot compromise, and the US bloc give some too, then the only other answer is a "Jeb Bush" policy in the end and maybe it will be "Jeb Bush" in the end that goes in there and handles it and anyone that's in the way, will just have to get out of the way, because this radical islam has to be defeated.

ISIS is the worst but it's not like those Russian-backed / Iranian-backed shia hezbollah militias are a whole lot better.

edit: just to note, not looking to pick an argument with you dissident. If it were up to me, Russia would be offered the best deal that's possible. The West ought to be holding out Crimea recognition and lifting sanctions, if Russia worked with the coalition in Syria and proved that it really will and then if like after a year Russia's really on board, then lift sanctions and recognize crimea.

There is SOME deal that could be made, between Moscow and Washington, but none of us besides Kerry and Lavrov etc. really know what the behind the scenes sticking points are.

Regarding Russia and the US, one thing to always take heart in is just that the two work together well and trust each other on serious matters. US already has an alliance, and then Russia is trying to build an alliance / sphere / bloc -- but neither side ever wants to fight the other.

A place like Turkey is different, Turkey is a regional power on the rise and therefore may be more risk taking and confrontational. (as is Russia)

Ultimately, Russia should be glad Turkey is in NATO -- the US will keep Turkey in line.

So anyhow, that's what's going on, there's realpolitk sphere of influence clashing / regional powers trying to build a sphere and expand, combined with the real problem and threat of radical islam.

[frankthetank]

They vaporized a bunch of doctors in Afghanistan....destroying some pipes/pumps is nothing.

[Cid_Yama]

One, the Western Coalition is out to topple Assad. Russia is there to keep Assad in power.

Two, by international law, The only nations authorized to make airstrikes in Syria, are those that have the permission of Syria. And Russia just declared you will coordinate with them or you are not welcome over Syria.

So it is up to the West to join Russian efforts, not the other way around.

Frankly, I would like to see a coalition aircraft enter Syria without permission, and get an S-400 up their tailpipe. It will put them off their high horse, and back in line with International Law.

[AgentR11]

Which begs some interesting what-ifs. If we accept that the S400 can kill modern F15/F16 (likely); do we continue the exercise with the F22s. Can we sustain the F22s long enough to last for the duration of the conflict until F35s become regularly available and ready for combat.

If we do use the F22s, and the S400 proves its ability to find and kill them, we've just wrecked a huge level of our "moxy" as it were. Not to mention every non NATO country in the world is suddenly going to find itself desperate to buy Russian radar.

If the F22 is fired upon by S400's but not killed, its unlikely the F22 can make the kill on the S400 unit itself so it leaves you still in the position of having to spend an enormous amount of money to drop a couple bombs on a couple ISIS trucks in the middle of the desert. But do you then try to make the S400 kill with a barrage of cruise missiles sufficient to overwhelm the S400 itself and its close-in point defense companions; that'd be a bucket ton of cruise missiles.

Its a lose-lose-lose all the way through the outcome matrix for the US, and either a win or a nuthin for Russia.

Thus, the best thing to do with Syria is to find a different game to play.

[jjhman]

I'm normally defensive against the obvious anti-American extremism I see on this site. However this morning's paper had a comment by John Kerry that struck me as outrageously stupid. He said that we could have peace in Syria only a few months after deposing Assad. I guess he hasn't noticed that in evey country in the middle east and north Africa (except Tunisia) absolute chaos and Islamic extremism followed a brutal dictatorship.

I'm starting to think that there can be no peace in that region without brutal dictatorship.

[AgentR11]

They're "brutal" because they're constantly engaged in intertribal warfare. Its a feature of the culture and supported by their religion, or at least how they derive their religion to support their violence.

Any dictator in the region is going to be "of" a certain sub group. Everyone not in that sub group is going to feel disenfranchised. Their preachers then rile them up; they go get some rifles, and its off to war. Evil Dictator responds by blowing them up in whatever is the most efficient way; which causes that tribal band to play the woe-is-me victim card; get riled up again; rile up a neighbor band, and do it again. My take is that Bob the Merchant is doohickey-bad doesn't really care much, as long as his shop doesn't get looted by the riled up band, and doesn't get blown up by the dictator trying to fight the riled up band. So when the dictator is winning the fight, the cities actually look pretty good, modern, clean, functional, well lit. But elections... kinda questionable. lol.

[Keith_McClary]

They're "brutal" because they're constantly engaged in intertribal warfare. Its a feature of the culture and supported by their religion, or at least how they derive their religion to support their violence.

Any dictator in the region is going to be "of" a certain sub group. Everyone not in that sub group is going to feel disenfranchised. Their preachers then rile them up; they go get some rifles, and its off to war. Evil Dictator responds by blowing them up in whatever is the most efficient way; which causes that tribal band to play the woe-is-me victim card; get riled up again; rile up a neighbor band, and do it again. My take is that Bob the Merchant is doohickey-bad doesn't really care much, as long as his shop doesn't get looted by the riled up band, and doesn't get blown up by the dictator trying to fight the riled up band. So when the dictator is winning the fight, the cities actually look pretty good, modern, clean, functional, well lit. But elections... kinda questionable. lol.

Bah. Post WWII, the region was all about secular nationalism, but that was seen as a threat and systematically suppressed by the West. Divide and conquer.

[AgentR11]

You stopped reading at the word "religion" didn't' you. My whole message is about secular, TRIBAL, nationalism.

[Cog]

So besides this Iranian source, has the US government admitted to bombing this water plant yet? I can not find a news source that says that.

[AgentR11]

Why in the world would we want to admit to that. Admitting it means you have to pay to fix it. Just deny, it goes away. Proof isn't even relevant.

[Keith_McClary]

You stopped reading at the word "religion" didn't' you. My whole message is about secular, TRIBAL, nationalism.

The secular nationalist movement had little use for tribalism. They wanted a modern centralized state.