US Administration likes high gasoline prices

[BasilBoy]

Perhaps you 'mericans need to explain to this Caledonian transplant what the average American really is.

The average American doesn't really exist or is irrelevant. It's like judging a place by the average weather - the average hardly ever happens, its either rainy or sunny. There are factions and belief systems and the politicians job at the national level is to triangulate. Even Rick Perry spoke for a faction

Perhaps a more appropriate term is a normal American. Norms certainly exist and the normal American is one that works some ^%#$ job that contributes to trying to keep this house of cards afloat. Some make more money than others but most jobs aren't actually working towards a solution. Rather, they're part of the problem. These normal Americans don't have time to understand what's going on and are often too tired from work that they just throw on the TV and watch the corporate propaganda. They know high gas prices will make their lives more difficult, so they assume high oil prices are bad. If they read that the current President is responsible and they want to exercise their useless right to vote...they just might get off their armchair and vote for any opponent. They then feel like they've helped contribute to a solution when all that they've done is nothing...

[Plantagenet]

Maybe Obama ....is hesitant to deliver impossible promises? Nah. He's a Muslim.

Nah...Obama can pander with best of them.

After all, he spent much of the 2008 campaign promising to lower gasoline prices. Since Obama campaigned in 2008 by promising to lower the price of gasoline, surely its fair for his opponents to point out that gas prices have instead doubled since Obama took office.

[pstarr]

Plant, I have no recollection that Obama "spent much of the 2008 campaign promising lower gasoline prices." References please?

The EIA just concluded that high oil prices are a function of the supply/demand equation, in particular troubles in Syria and Sudan (?) So as the EIA is an Executive Branch adjunct, and at least under the titular authority of Obama, I suppose it is reasonable to conclude that the Obama and his Evil Democrats are guilty of the supreme evil; the TRUTH.

I get so tired of the YAP CLASS blaming anything but peak oil. But It seems we can now discount previous responsible parties; Keystone Pipeline Hippies, Iran, Evil Speculators, fear of an iranian/israeli war, Corrupt Oil Companies, Spineless Environmentalists, Liberal who hate our freedom, et. al. and consider truth. we are burning through our precious oil. How refreshing!

[Plantagenet]

In 2008 while campaigning against high gas prices, Obama boasted about being " the president who will free this nation from the tyranny of oil once and for all.”

Obama read those words from his teleprompter in 2008 with great feeling, but he has utterly failed to deliver on his teleprompter's promises. The tyranny of oil remains in place and today, instead of talking about freeing the US from oil, Obama now boasts about the increasing oil production in North Dakota.

[pstarr]

In 2008 Obama boasted about being " the president who will free this nation from the tyranny of oil once and for all.”

Obama read those words from his teleprompter with great feeling, but he has failed to deliver on his teleprompter's promises.

that was a campaign speech, he didn't say it as you quoted it. Go look it up, or better yet; have one of your fellow republican-operative interns look it up.

[babystrangeloop]

Did TPTB deliberately plant Obama in office because they knew whoever was there would be the fall guy for peak oil? DId they want to put a particular type of face in front of the inevitable conditions?

[pstarr]

Did TPTB deliberately plant Obama in office because they knew whoever was there would be the fall guy for peak oil?

so did the TPTB plant Bush in office during the 2005 C/C peak? or Nixon for the 1972 US peak? But then would TPTB really need a "fall guy?" After all, they are TPTB

[Sixstrings]

The EIA just concluded that high oil prices are a function of the supply/demand equation..

It took a blue ribbon panel to figure that out?

Monetary inflation is another factor though, but at the core is peak oil combined with rising Asian demand -- then the speculators pile in with the free money they get handed from the Federal Reserve.

I suppose it is reasonable to conclude that the Obama and his Evil Democrats are guilty of the supreme evil; the TRUTH.

Well they're not really saying "the truth." The truth is is that we're now at the short end of the globalist free trading bullsh*t stick. The truth is that Repubs and Dems have both sold the nation out with these past decades of offshoring and the bill has come due. The real truth is, "get ready to live like Chinese."

Obama can't really come out and say that, so he just says "it's a world market," and "the Chinese want that oil too."

This is definitely a marked difference in presidential response to high gas prices. I remember Bush, he went over to Saudi and begged and begged -- but didn't come home with any more oil. So now Obama, this is a change basically it's "what can you do, that Indian in Punjab who took your job wants a car." Meanwhile Obama is pushing a Pacific-wide NAFTA, gee thanks let's really kick America while she's down.

To be clear, Mitt Romney is no alternative -- what Obama has been doing are REPUBLICAN polices. Republicans and corporatist Democrats, they're are *exact same thing*, they're globalist free trade dealing offshoring capitalists.

I get so tired of the YAP CLASS blaming anything but peak oil.

I agree. I've been noticing some recognition of peak oil, just read an article that mentioned "oil supplies that can barely keep up with rising world demand." They don't come out and say the words peak oil but it means the same. Funny thing by the way is that demand in the US is DOWN BIG TIME and yet the prices keep climbing.

I think the US is heading for a Greece situation, where we'll be suffering and suffering but nobody really cares -- it's a Chinese century now, their demand will continue to rise even if we Americans are all pushing rickshaws. There's nothing we can do, no matter how much we cut back demand will keep growing from the rest of the world, as Obama said "it's a world market." Romney wants that keystone pipeline but guess what -- the oil would still be exported.

[pstarr]

"get ready to live like Chinese." if we are lucky. The Chinese, previously conservative communists, are better suited for an energy-constrained post-peak world with an infrastructure still vastly less dependent on gas-guzzling automobile. Our great tragedy is we discovered and built around cheap oil first. american empire is over. the world will be a safer place when americans wake up to the truth.

[babystrangeloop]

Did TPTB deliberately plant Obama in office because they knew whoever was there would be the fall guy for peak oil?

so did the TPTB plant Bush in office during the 2005 C/C peak? or Nixon for the 1972 US peak? But then would TPTB really need a "fall guy?" After all, they are TPTB

1. Nixon during the 1971ish US peak - nobody had ever seen anything like it before. How could anyone know the need to plant a fall guy?
2. Bush during the 2005 C/C peak - who better to plant than a someone who could play the theatrical games and entice the wealthy and had some basic understanding about oil?
3. Obama in 2008 - who better to take the fall than a black man?

[Plantagenet]

what Obama has been doing are REPUBLICAN polices.

Don't be silly. Obama is the leader of the DEMOCRATS. His energy policies are DEMOCRATIC policies---thats why they are supported by Democrats and opposed by Republicans.

Take the KeystoneXL Pipeline, for example....the DEMOCRAT policy is to block the pipeline and the tens of thousands of jobs it would bring, while Republicans support it.

[pstarr]

Why would tptb even need a fall guy? they are wealthy powerful and believe they are immune to consequences. plus tptb did not cause peak oil, are not to blame, and therefore wouldn't need to waste their times creating diversions.

[pstarr]

what Obama has been doing are REPUBLICAN polices.

Don't be silly. Obama is the leader of the DEMOCRATS. His energy policies are DEMOCRATIC policies---thats why they are supported by Democrats and opposed by Republicans.

Take the KeystoneXL Pipeline, for example....the DEMOCRAT policy is to block the pipeline and the tens of thousands of jobs it would bring, while Republicans support it.

bush invaded iraq for oil. obama got us out.

[Sixstrings]

Take the KeystoneXL Pipeline, for example....the DEMOCRAT policy is to block the pipeline and the tens of thousands of jobs it would bring, while Republicans support it.

Plant, just like Obama says oil and gasoline too IS A WORLD MARKET. The pipeline is intended to get the oil to the gulf coast refineries -- not gas into your car. From there IT'S A WORLD MARKET.

But some critics of the pipeline are questioning this claim, saying much of the oil could end up as gasoline and diesel fuel exported to Europe and Latin America.

“The oil industry will sell their product where they will get the best price for it, (and) markets for diesel, in particular, are much more profitable abroad,” said Steve Kretzmann of Oil Change International, a clean-energy group opposed to the pipeline. “Those are growing markets. That’s what we base the assertion that this is primarily an export pipeline on.”
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_f2e54343-51ba-57e7-89bd-a2656901ba62.html

We need a Pro-America political party, we need to get away from the elite controlled Republican-Democrat cabal, it's Republicans and Clinton "New Democrats" -- essentially Republicans -- who wrecked everything.

Also..

A lot of the pipeline opposition is actually local, farmers and ranchers. People don't want this pipeline going through their land, sheesh from Canada to Louisiana that's a long one can you imagine the mess? And you know what, we can just bring the oil down there by train or better yet build refineries closer to the supply without a continent-spanning crude pipe.

Bottom line.. the core issue here is that we offshored our industrial base that's WHY there's insatiable demand coming out of Chindia. Doesn't matter how much we drill or refine, China and India have 2.5 billion people and all the other growing countries wan the oil and gas too.

[Plantagenet]

Plant, just like Obama says oil and gasoline too IS A WORLD MARKET. The pipeline is intended to get the oil to the gulf coast refineries -- not gas into your car. From there IT'S A WORLD MARKET.

Every bit of oil is already in the "WORLD MARKET". If China wants to go to Alberta or Cushing Oklahoma or Seattle or New York or Texas and buy oil they can do so right now. If the US wants to go to Saudi or Beijing and buy oil we can do that now as well. The Pipeline doesn't change that a bit.

All that Obama and the Democrats do by blocking the US pipeline is destroy US jobs building the pipeline, and destroy the jobs of US workers who would have had high paying jobs at the US refineries.

[pstarr]

Plant, just like Obama says oil and gasoline too IS A WORLD MARKET. The pipeline is intended to get the oil to the gulf coast refineries -- not gas into your car. From there IT'S A WORLD MARKET.

Every bit of oil is already in the "WORLD MARKET". If China wants to go to Alberta or Cushing Oklahoma or Seattle or New York or Texas and buy oil they can do so right now. If the US wants to go to Saudi or Beijing and buy oil we can do that now as well. The Pipeline doesn't change that a bit.

All that Obama and the Democrats do by blocking the US pipeline is destroy US jobs building the pipeline, and destroy the jobs of US workers who would have had high paying jobs at the US refineries.

so this discussion is not really about obama and the democrats wanting high oil prices? Apparently you just changed the subject once again to reflect your anti-obama obsession. i always assumed it was republican union-busting that destroyed the american working class, and stole their high-paying jobs.

[Sixstrings]

Every bit of oil is already in the "WORLD MARKET". If China wants to go to Alberta or Cushing Oklahoma or Seattle or New York or Texas and buy oil they can do so right now. If the US wants to go to Saudi or Beijing and buy oil we can do that now as well. The Pipeline doesn't change that a bit.

We're getting somewhere, you just admitted the gasoline wouldn't necessarily go to the US. And the oil going through the pipe is still priced at world market price -- that price is still going up and up.

Even if we get most of that Canadian oil, then the Chinese will just buy the Saudi oil it all washes out Plant. The core issue here, the crux of all this, is more worldwide demand than we have worldwide supply. The pipeline doesn't solve that. A pipeline moves oil it doesn't grow it. May as well let the Chinese buy it out of Vancouver and we'll keep buying it from the Saudis, it makes no damn difference so why have a pipeline ruining good farm and ranch land and possibly the water tables across the whole frickin' continent?

All that Obama and the Democrats do by blocking the US pipeline is destroy US jobs building the pipeline, and destroy the jobs of US workers who would have had high paying jobs at the US refineries.

Those are temporary jobs, what do you do with the workers after it's built? *shrugs*

You're still avoiding the crux of all this, our industry has been offshored to Asia -- building a pipeline here makes no difference, it's a world market, the industry and growing demand is still outside the US. US demand will continue to fall as the US continues to fall, meanwhile the "worldwide market" price will keep going up even if, as I said, every American is reduced to pushing a rickshaw that price is still going up.

[careinke]

And you know what, we can just bring the oil down there by train or better yet build refineries closer to the supply without a continent-spanning crude pipe.
[/b]

Interesting. I wonder what the efficiency would be for train transport vs a pipeline? Also, if I understand correctly, the opposition to the pipeline, is primarily to protect the aquifer under the pipeline. Is a train full of oil safer than a pipeline? How about a refinery built on top of the aquifer?

[pstarr]

And you know what, we can just bring the oil down there by train or better yet build refineries closer to the supply without a continent-spanning crude pipe.
[/b]

Interesting. I wonder what the efficiency would be for train transport vs a pipeline? Also, if I understand correctly, the opposition to the pipeline, is primarily to protect the aquifer under the pipeline. Is a train full of oil safer than a pipeline? How about a refinery built on top of the aquifer?

that is how it is done already and why cushing sells at a discount. the additional cost of hauling (by train or truck) the oil out is factored into the trading price, and hence it is cheaper.

[Tanada]

[Those are temporary jobs, what do you do with the workers after it's built? *shrugs*

News flash!! All construction jobs are temporary jobs. The workers will just move on to the next project which there are plenty of waiting on the back burner for funding.

I also think the worry about the aquifer is overblown. They will not be pumping finished gasoline through the line but a very heavy crude. Much easier to clean up in the event of a spill.
Considering how much energy it takes to get this bitumen free from it's sandstone base this will always be oil with a high marginal cost but we may soon be down to oils in this price range so adding unnecessary cost to it makes no sense and we may soon not have the option of replacing it with Saudi or any other ME crude.