Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

urban bus systems

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Pops » Mon 23 Mar 2015, 10:53:48

yellowcanoe wrote:Bus driver salaries are just a small part of what I see as a growing discrepancy between public sector and private sector compensation.

So then the solution is no one makes a good living and we can lower rich folks taxes some more?
The reason public sector wages are higher is there is no owner skimming the profits, raiding the retirement plan, and offshoring the work to a little Chinese girl. Take away government competition for employees and private wages would really fall. But at least we'd have no reason to be jealous of the dumb bus driver.


--
Anyway, on topic, I've recently begun doing some graphics work for a sorta-urban bus system. It is not large, only 10 permanent routes but it is in the San Francisco Bay region so part of the larger scheme. I can say, just from initial impressions, that many of the topics we talk about here are at the forefront of the admin agenda, aside from imminent die off. The system is probably too small to for electrification, and the area growing too much still, but nat gas transition and other "green" topics are common. So is expanding the ridership outside the typical demo — read that as poor folks. This is an intermodal system connecting to BART, ferries, Park 'n Ride and neighboring bus systems.

If I hear anything interesting I'll let you all know
.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Mon 23 Mar 2015, 14:11:40

Pops wrote:
yellowcanoe wrote:Bus driver salaries are just a small part of what I see as a growing discrepancy between public sector and private sector compensation.

So then the solution is no one makes a good living and we can lower rich folks taxes some more?
The reason public sector wages are higher is there is no owner skimming the profits, raiding the retirement plan, and offshoring the work to a little Chinese girl. Take away government competition for employees and private wages would really fall. But at least we'd have no reason to be jealous of the dumb bus driver.


I happen to be one of these public sector workers so I'm not speaking from a position of jealousy. I am also speaking from a Canadian perspective, more specifically Ontario.

The current system is unsustainable. Ontario is only able to continue to support its large public sector by borrowing $10 to $12 billion a year. You've probably seen some of the media stories about how deeply in debt California is. Ontario, with a total debt in the neighbourhood of $300 billion has a much higher amount of debt per capita than California ever did. A lot of good paying manufacturing jobs have been lost due to free trade agreements that enable those jobs to move to the US, Mexico or Asia. Improved productivity has also eliminated a lot of good jobs. When I look at the amount of income my own kids are making and the prospects in general for their generation it is really hard to believe that there will be enough tax revenue to fulfill the pension and health care promises that have been made to my generation. Those who are wealthy are already being taxed at a fairly high rate. So there is no magic bullet. The only way to provide a better deal for the substantial number of private sector workers who do not receive the good salaries and pensions that public sector workers receive is for public sector workers to receive less so that others can receive more.
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Pops » Mon 23 Mar 2015, 14:47:39

I like charts, here are 2

Image

Image


Make it 3

Image


Maybe 4, this one is good too:

Image


Correlation is not causation and yadda yadda, but ...
.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 23 Mar 2015, 15:09:13

Great charts, Pops.

I'm surprised to see that union membership in the US peaked in the late 1950s and has been declining for the last five and half decades now. I would've guessed that union membership started declining after Reagan busted the PATCO union in the 80s or after Clinton signed the NAFTA agreement so that US manufacturing could move their manufacturing plants to Mexico in the 90s, but its clearly a much longer term problem.

Your chart suggests the decline in union membership has been going on for half a century. It must somehow be systemic, rather then result of any individual law or policy from the government. :idea:
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26616
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Mon 23 Mar 2015, 16:05:07

If we are to look at charts of unionization rates it really would be helpful to differentiate between public and private sector unionization. Unions are still doing very well in the public sector because they are effective in retaining good salaries and benefits for their members. At the university where I work everyone who is employed full time is unionized and even students who have various types of temporary employment with the university are either already unionized or trying to become unionized. It's an entirely different story in the private sector where unions have been largely ineffective in dealing with globalization. Case in point would be the General Motors EMD Locomotive plant in London, Ontario. When GM got into big trouble a few years back and had to be bailed out by various governments, one of the things they did was sell their EMD division to Caterpillar. When the union contract at the plant in London expired, Caterpillar demanded that the employees take a salary cut which for some employees would have been as much as 50%. The union declined to accept that offer but they stayed on the job instead of going on strike. Caterpillar then locked out all the employees and a few weeks later announced that they were closing the plant and moving all the work to a new plant they had in Indiana. That's the stark reality many private sector unions face -- when the corporation asks for salary concessions the union can either cave in or everyone loses their job. Some private sector workers may be better off if their work cannot be relocated elsewhere, for example nickel miners in Sudbury. But even here globalization has an impact. Nickel workers used to work for INCO, a Canadian company, and if they went on strike INCO lost a significant amount of their nickel production. But now INCO is just part of Vale, a large mining conglomorate that has a lot of nickel mines around the world. The ability of the miners to retain their benefits has been negatively impacted and they were forced to make concessions to Vale after a strike that lasted almost a full year.

The point I am trying to make is that if private sector workers are having their salaries and benefits (especially pensions) rolled back it cannot continue to be all ponies and puppy dogs for those working in the public sector.
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Pops » Mon 23 Mar 2015, 16:10:38

My point is that unions give workers bargaining power.

But lets not derail your thread, or to be more on topic, lets not run it into the bar' ditch.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 19746
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 04:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 24 Mar 2015, 13:47:55

Pops wrote:So then the solution is no one makes a good living and we can lower rich folks taxes some more?
The reason public sector wages are higher is there is no owner skimming the profits, raiding the retirement plan, and offshoring the work to a little Chinese girl. Take away government competition for employees and private wages would really fall. But at least we'd have no reason to be jealous of the dumb bus driver.

Of course. The San Francisco liberal approach / set of assumptions.

Any effort to make government more effective is an excuse to advocate for higher taxes on the wealthy (or whine that someone wants to lower such taxes). You'd think there were no other problems to solve which an effective, cost efficient government might be able to help with. (An odd position from a liberal).

And of course, ANY perceived problem has to be the fault of evil cigar chomping private businesses who are out to scr*w everybody, instead of make an honest living by trading products or services for money. :o
....

While you're at it, why don't you advocate for 99% taxes on businesses, and then you can REALLY whine when virtually all businesses offshore every job they possibly can? After all, there can't possibly be any cause and effect there, right? :roll:

It's especially odd that liberals, who constantly preach jealousness via complaining about "unfair" wages, would jump on someone else for being jealous of a bus driver earning an unrealistically high salary by dint of a government favor (scr*w the taxpayer, buy the votes of the bus driver's union). So which is it? Is protesting "unfair" wages a good thing or a bad thing? Or is it only a good thing when mounting an unwarranted attack on business as being the problem, when (as usual) government supported unions are clearly the problem?

You forgot to blame Fox News, the 1%, the tea party, etc. while you were at it, by the way.

...

It would surely be nice to have a more balanced discussion about government vs. business. (Yes, I was highly biased above -- I did it deliberately in a sarcastic attempt to make a POINT).

How about requiring both sides to be effective and honest? How about holding both sides to the same productive standards? Oh, I forgot. Reasonable rhetoric doesn't inflame the voters on "side X".
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 24 Mar 2015, 13:59:42

Plantagenet wrote:Great charts, Pops.

I'm surprised to see that union membership in the US peaked in the late 1950s and has been declining for the last five and half decades now. I would've guessed that union membership started declining after Reagan busted the PATCO union in the 80s or after Clinton signed the NAFTA agreement so that US manufacturing could move their manufacturing plants to Mexico in the 90s, but its clearly a much longer term problem.

Your chart suggests the decline in union membership has been going on for half a century. It must somehow be systemic, rather then result of any individual law or policy from the government. :idea:

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! You're derailing a very popular far left talking point. When they stop blaming Bush, they start in on Reagan. It's not accuracy -- it's about "the GOP is evil, and unions are good.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 24 Mar 2015, 14:51:46

The point wasn't about how much the driver makes, it's that you get rid of the driver.

Let's say every time you put some guy or gal out of a job you then require that he/she also be executed as well as all of the dependants? :shock:

If not, then how do you expect someone to have a job and be self sufficient?

This is the dilemma of efficiency. You out a seamstress out of work and call her a welfare mom. :cry:

There's honor in work, and no, a robot can't replace a driver when a passenger needs help, or is unruly, or sick, or drunk and threatening. And no, bus drivers are not over paid for a dumb job. They have to interface with an often hostile and crude and uncaring public, often working split shifts covering 10 or 12 hours for a an 8 hour pay check.

Never been one, I wouldn't make it, too tough a job. I'd end up in jail with blood on my hands.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18458
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 24 Mar 2015, 15:19:47

Newfie wrote:The point wasn't about how much the driver makes, it's that you get rid of the driver.

Let's say every time you put some guy or gal out of a job you then require that he/she also be executed as well as all of the dependants? :shock:

If not, then how do you expect someone to have a job and be self sufficient?

This is the dilemma of efficiency. You out a seamstress out of work and call her a welfare mom. :cry:

As though when the automobile made buggy whip makers obsolete, NO jobs were made available over time through the improved transportation technology, to replace them.

Give me a break.

Now, I'll be the FIRST (as a taxpayer) to say government needs to get off its collective ASS and make education for young, old, and especially newly unemployed:

1). Available.
2). Of top quality.
3). Affordable, and geared toward practical job skills.

And government is falling down for not doing that effectively (though, typical of big government, there is a harde of mish-mashed complex and ineffective programs that are supposedly geared towards education. Bolstering teachers' unions and overpaid university power brokers among them (though buying votes instead of furthering quality education is too often the purpose of such efforts).

But acting like boo hoo, every time technology changes jobs are ONLY lost is just silly. It may buy you more votes amongst the poorly educated, but do you really expect anyone else to believe you?
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 24 Mar 2015, 20:56:39

No, I do not expect people to believe me.

But think about doing some careful analysis and some math. See where it leads.

I suppose I deserved you reproach for my heavy handed post. None the less, the hard facts are on my side.

Here is a guy who know something about math, he got it mostly right, and was a pretty good explainer.

A short read....

http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18458
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Tue 24 Mar 2015, 23:16:52

One point being missed here is that while improving productivity so you need fewer workers makes sense from the perspective of an employer it makes no sense at all in a world with finite resources. As we are now encountering resource limits, efforts to improve productivity will only result in more unemployed people.
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby kanon » Wed 25 Mar 2015, 00:52:31

I was not trying to start a labor vs. management argument! The point is the automated bus makes more sense than the automated car and doesn't have the expense of a driver, making it seem more affordable. The corporations have a multitude of weapons against labor and have been using them effectively for decades. Labor has apparently earned a reputation for stupidity and impotence -- they even voted for Reagan! Caterpillar probably still owns the shuttered factory -- why are they not required to sell it? -- because the fired workers might buy it. Why do unions insist on ridiculous benefits and higher pay for members than non-union workers get? -- they need a privilege to justify themselves.

I think anyone who wants to argue about management vs labor should first describe the monopoly, subsidies, special financing, tax breaks, bribery, and gangsterism of management before they even mention labor. For those on the labor side, they should first describe the excessive benefits, paralyzing work rules, featherbedding, and gangsterism of unions. I really do not see the point of having a favorite parasite.

And don't forget, most if not all major industries would lose money if they had to clean up their own mess.

I sympathize with the points made by Pops and agree he gave some very good graphs. I just do not believe unions are capable of improving things for the 99% and are only effective in protected, monopoly, or privileged situations. Corporate oligarchs have moved much of the valuable stuff out of that arena and unions are not creating any opportunities, competition, or political pressure.

In the context of urban transportation, the public transportation systems are under constant attack from highway contractors, auto industry, oil companies, politicians, etc. Not to mention graft, corruption, inflated equipment costs, managerial incompetence, and, yes, grasping unions. Therefore, the attraction of simplifying things (if only an illusion), plus lower costs, intimidate labor, embrace "progress," and get a new ally, will probably lead to some attempts to employ automated buses in the future.
kanon
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri 24 Oct 2014, 09:04:07

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 25 Mar 2015, 07:54:05

yellowcanoe wrote:One point being missed here is that while improving productivity so you need fewer workers makes sense from the perspective of an employer it makes no sense at all in a world with finite resources. As we are now encountering resource limits, efforts to improve productivity will only result in more unemployed people.



That's right, we already have an unemployment problem, efficiencies only make it worse.

But it seems terribly hard for most to understand.

For example, I heard a news report (NPR) about how some company was creating new jobs, by building robots, which would put people out of work. The reporter was just oozing over the great thing it was to create new jobs, but never once mentioned the loss of jobs.

Elsewhere on this forum (CA drought) I mentioned the oft cited knock on effect of creating jobs. You've heard it, if we bring In this factory it will create 100 new direct jobs and 250 indirect jobs. I noted that the converse is also true, eliminating 100 factory jobs would take down 250 related jobs. Someone came back and said that was not true, it doesn't work that way. That statement does not stand a prima facia analysis. Maybe the jobs stay, but then they are being propped up by the tax payers.

To take that argument to absurdum, we can primary sector jobs, then the related jobs, the scrub the primary sector jobs, but start the factory up again, and create more secondary jobs, then shutter the factory while keeping the secondary jobs, and repeate the cycle until you have full employment, where no one produces anything.

Come to think of it, it starts to sound like the current US economy. 8O :-D
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18458
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby kanon » Wed 25 Mar 2015, 10:04:16

Newfie wrote:Elsewhere on this forum (CA drought) I mentioned the oft cited knock on effect of creating jobs. You've heard it, if we bring In this factory it will create 100 new direct jobs and 250 indirect jobs. I noted that the converse is also true, eliminating 100 factory jobs would take down 250 related jobs. Someone came back and said that was not true, it doesn't work that way. That statement does not stand a prima facia analysis. Maybe the jobs stay, but then they are being propped up by the tax payers.

That is part of the picture, I agree. There is also a flux of activities so the connections between jobs and a particular capital investment is not always clear.

My concern is not so much with jobs as it is with resources. I may be mistaken, but I think public transportation can offer mobility for most urban people using far less resources than private automobiles. Using less resources should result in less cost, which should benefit people who have less money, in theory. Transportation has always been expensive, so how it is organized is important.

More theory, IMHO: It is not really jobs that matter, but activities. This sounds silly now, but jobs are really important in a money economy, whereas roles or activities are important when money is either unavailable or unimportant. If there will be no more "economic growth" or even contraction, then we should deploy resources to support activities that are, at least, benign. This has to be worked out in the social order, but even if we don't know what the social order will be we can see the most likely resources or infrastructure that can be maintained.
kanon
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri 24 Oct 2014, 09:04:07

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 25 Mar 2015, 16:25:44

Newfie wrote: None the less, the hard facts are on my side.

Here is a guy who know something about math, he got it mostly right, and was a pretty good explainer.

A short read....

http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html

Um, thanks for the cite, but I'm a bit confused.

1). This is philosophy, not math. Bertrand Russell is, to my knowledge, better known for his writings on philosophy than his math.

2). Though I agree with much of what he wrote, this is 2015, NOT 1932. As a guy who made his living mostly from manipulating symbols via a computer, and only occaisonally telling people what to do, I completely disagree with his assertion about the two kinds of labor. (For me, the best part of the job was doing the technical work, and the worst part was having to tell people what to do -- i.e. keep a team organized and productive enough to get management to leave the team alone). i.e.

First of all: what is work? Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relatively to other such matter; second, telling other people to do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid.


If we're going to use vague (incorrect, IMO) assertions such as the one I highlighted in red as an example of the "hard facts" that are on your side -- we may as well discuss angels and how many can dance on the head of a pin.

Oh, and my work involved manipulating information, including actually creating new information from other information, by automating the means (a computer program). Russell couldn't have even imagined computers (not his fault), but this also makes the text in his quote I highlighted in blue completely incorrect, as now (and in the future, I expect) there are more basic types of work, due to advancing technology -- and IMO, "good" work, not just drudgery.

As automation progresses we may be able to (and need to) have some kind of standard government payment for people who don't work due to lack of demand. I'm not denying that. I'm just not at all convinced that Russell's 83 year old ruminations about work, production, Communism, etc. should reasonably be cited as the "hard facts", much less anything like the final words on the subject.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby kanon » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 22:22:59

The Houston Metro transit reimagining project seems to be moving forward. It is an effort to do a major transformation of the bus system. It looks like the "hub and spoke" model is being replaced with a "grid" model. The promise is "simpler, faster, more frequent service." Also in the mix is a BRT (bus rapid transit) project in the Galeria uptown business center (still pretty central). There is an interview on this at Talking Headways Podcast: Cowboys on Light Rail which included the idea that the transit authority should actually care about riders -- amazing -- mentioning such things as pedestrian access to bus stops and getting to destinations.

It seems the bus route reconfiguration has less opposition than the BRT. This editorial Metro votes notes the different receptions for the projects. I suspect the bus route change will actually be more important than the BRT since it will likely increase costs and ridership. If you are not a car lover, Houston is a giant high-tension traffic snarl. I would expect bus ridership to increase significantly if the new route design is really good. But the BRT will probably get the continued attention as there is expensive real estate and urban transit concepts in play.

There was an initial attempt to place light rail on the BRT route, but that idea was abandoned and, in fact, there is a requirement that the BRT route are prohibited from being "light rail ready." There will be dedicated bus lanes. Rail-divisions-loom-over-Uptown-bus-project.
The $192.5 million project will use dedicated bus lanes - one in each direction - in the center of Post Oak to ferry travelers between a future transit center in Bellaire to the Northwest Transit Center near Interstate 10. Seven stops are planned, enabling a rider to take a Metro park and ride bus from suburban lots to the Bellaire or Northwest centers, and then use rapid transit to get into the Uptown area.

Metro will buy and operate the buses. Uptown is overseeing construction, which will retain three lanes for vehicles in each direction on Post Oak by adding the bus lanes in the center.

Analysts estimated that more than 19,000 people would use the line daily by 2018, provided officials build a $45 million portion that includes dedicated bus lanes in each direction along Loop 610. Without the Loop 610 lane, about 14,100 are expected to hop aboard daily.


One BRT critic said "All of the signs point towards the . . . BRT line being yet another taxpayer disaster, . . ." Uptown bus rapid transit line.

My reading between the lines is the rail partisans and the highway partisans were forced into a compromise on the BRT concept. Hopefully it will not become an unloved stepchild of the transportation lords.
kanon
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri 24 Oct 2014, 09:04:07

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 22:56:32

Re: Bertrand Russell

From wiki

He now started an intensive study of the foundations of mathematics at Trinity. In 1898 he wrote An Essay on the Foundations of Geometry which discussed the Cayley–Klein metrics used for non-Euclidean geometry.[91] He attended the International Congress of Philosophy in Paris in 1900 where he met Giuseppe Peano and Alessandro Padoa. The Italians had responded to Georg Cantor, making a science of set theory; they gave Russell their literature including the Formulario mathematico. Russell was impressed by the precision of Peano's arguments at the Congress, read the literature upon returning to England, and came upon Russell's paradox. In 1903 he published The Principles of Mathematics, a work on foundations of mathematics. It advanced a thesis of logicism, that mathematics and logic are one and the same.[92]
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18458
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 23:03:31

@outcast re Russell

I agree, his is not the last word on the matter, and I too find reason to quibble with some of his conclusions, but my quibbles are different from yours.

I was introducing that article as an intro to discussing the matter, a starting point if you will. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

It's late, I'm tired. For the moment just accept this, for many years I thought my work HDG meaning And benefited mankind, although I did find myself revisiting the topic on occasion. Later I took a more distant and comprehensive view of what I did for a living and decided it was meaningless.

I'm glad you find meaning in your toils.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18458
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: urban bus systems

Unread postby SolarDave » Fri 03 Apr 2015, 04:06:11

I'm thinking the future looks more like "Self-driving car meets Uber" ...

If you look at the cost of the public transportation systems in this thread (hundreds of millions) the alternative of a fleet of self-driving cars with some smart dispatch software and user apps could make a lot more sense - and individuals could play too. I work at home. I could "rent" my car to such a scheme and never miss it. With smart software it would be here when I needed it and earning money for me at all other times.
100% of the electricity needed for this post was generated by ME.
http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen/green_virtual_gym.html
Posted from a Pedal Powered Computer
User avatar
SolarDave
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu 19 May 2005, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Conservation & Efficiency

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests