Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Fri 11 Aug 2017, 00:03:42

pstarr wrote:To paraphrase Outcast: "if" fusion, "if" anthracite coal, "if" diversification, "if" AGW tax, "if" runaway GW . . . then peak oil doesn't really matter and we can all go back to BAU and the serious business of complaining about those goddamn peakers :-x lol

As usual, your comprehension is lacking.

I was addressing the point that if green energy works out, then FF revenues go to zero. Yeah, that can happen, but to happen fast, a lot has to work out. Including things like fusion, which isn't exactly likely.

But since your mind is a one-way "we're all doomed" rant, I wouldn't expect you to understand anything else better than you understand economics (i.e., at all).
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 3882
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 11 Aug 2017, 19:41:11

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
pstarr wrote:To paraphrase Outcast: "if" fusion, "if" anthracite coal, "if" diversification, "if" AGW tax, "if" runaway GW . . . then peak oil doesn't really matter and we can all go back to BAU and the serious business of complaining about those goddamn peakers :-x lol

As usual, your comprehension is lacking.

I was addressing the point that if green energy works out, then FF revenues go to zero. Yeah, that can happen, but to happen fast, a lot has to work out. Including things like fusion, which isn't exactly likely.

But since your mind is a one-way "we're all doomed" rant, I wouldn't expect you to understand anything else better than you understand economics (i.e., at all).


How is it a one-way "rant" if you keep using "if" and now fusion "isn't exactly likely"?

Also, why insist solely on economics? Because it makes use of credit to measure aspects of human society, it does not effectively describe our situation.
http://sites.google.com/site/peakoilreports/
User avatar
ralfy
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4619
Joined: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 10:36:38
Location: The Wasteland

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 11 Aug 2017, 20:00:41

Bingo, Ralfy with the credit comment. The enormous Debt bubble beyond inflating irrationally asset prices is becoming an ever greater burden on all economic players on this planet ie. everyone. Beyond that in a simple manner it is masking the lack of profitability now evident in most economic activities and in turn making them all less profitable as more and more revenue is needed to service the Debt.
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
User avatar
onlooker
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7775
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 13 Aug 2017, 23:27:52

The lost oil. Produced. But does it pay for itself?

Aug 03, 2017: Oil Price.com
7% of all employment in the US is linked to the oil-and gas industry?
Oil and gas ventures in the United States supported 10.3 million jobs and added $1.3 trillion to the national economy in 2015, the year after the oil price crash, according to a new report by PricewaterhouseCoopers and the American Petroleum Institute (API).

Seems happy? But not so much.

The oil and gas industry is also more (not less energy) intensive then other components like retail, health care, FIRE etc. E&P, distribution, maintenance all requires heavy equipment and fuel. So might fairly surmise that more than 7% of all gas and oil in the US is consumed by to the gas and oil industry. That's lousy net economic-wide eroei. That lost fuel, down the well bore and inside pipe friction, doesn't get to the consumer society. So it's ultimately a drag on the economy. There's that net-energy bugaboo again.
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26117
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 08:30:49

"I was addressing the point that if green energy works out, then FF revenues go to zero." Decrease significantly when/if the alts develop enough. But not zero. Not all ff are used to produce energy: a meaningful amount is used by the chemical and manufacturing industries.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 10547
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 11:39:30

pstarr wrote:
The oil and gas industry is also more (not less energy) intensive then other components like retail, health care, FIRE etc. E&P, distribution, maintenance all requires heavy equipment and fuel. So might fairly surmise that more than 7% of all gas and oil in the US is consumed by to the gas and oil industry. That's lousy net economic-wide eroei. That lost fuel, down the well bore and inside pipe friction, doesn't get to the consumer society. So it's ultimately a drag on the economy. There's that net-energy bugaboo again.

So you expect that gas should show up at the pump for you without any energy or effort being expended to get it there. I say that is rather unreasonable of you. :)
Now if seven percent provides all the energy for the other ninety three percent would that not work out to an ERoEi of about 13 to 1? Instead of that being a "lousy figure" it is in fact quite good for as long as it lasts.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 11:50:20

vtsnowedin wrote:
pstarr wrote:
The oil and gas industry is also more (not less energy) intensive then other components like retail, health care, FIRE etc. E&P, distribution, maintenance all requires heavy equipment and fuel. So might fairly surmise that more than 7% of all gas and oil in the US is consumed by to the gas and oil industry. That's lousy net economic-wide eroei. That lost fuel, down the well bore and inside pipe friction, doesn't get to the consumer society. So it's ultimately a drag on the economy. There's that net-energy bugaboo again.

So you expect that gas should show up at the pump for you without any energy or effort being expended to get it there. I say that is rather unreasonable of you. :)
Now if seven percent provides all the energy for the other ninety three percent would that not work out to an ERoEi of about 13 to 1? Instead of that being a "lousy figure" it is in fact quite good for as long as it lasts.

Do you suffer from reading comprehension as well as a math deficit? I said 'more than 7%'. Robust thermodynamic analysis suggests that energy lost to the oil-extraction business is closer to 50%
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26117
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 13:25:04

pstarr wrote:Do you suffer from reading comprehension as well as a math deficit? I said 'more than 7%'. Robust thermodynamic analysis suggests that energy lost to the oil-extraction business is closer to 50%

So you trot out that same "robust lie" yet again? God you have become tiresome.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7811
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 14:16:43

"Robust thermodynamic analysis suggests that energy lost to the oil-extraction business is closer to 50%". And once more a fine example of not understanding how little energy it takes to drill and produce oil and NG.

But sleep well tonight: as a result of the decrease in oil prices the average EROEI of current efforts has increased significantly...perhaps even doubled. But I assume that "robust thermodynamic analysis" has already indicated that improvement in EROEI.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 10547
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 15:19:58

RM, you would dig the same dirt whether you are paid $5/hour or your standard fee. The overseers whip bites just the same lol
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26117
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 21:40:02

pstarr wrote:The lost oil. Produced. But does it pay for itself?

Aug 03, 2017: Oil Price.com
7% of all employment in the US is linked to the oil-and gas industry?


Upset that clear cut foresty sporting events don't have near the economic effect that those who provide you with all the petrochemicals you desire are able to generate?

Well, there are many more people like you and your petrochemical habit, than people who support your forest clear cutting spectator hobbies.

As far as your normal and perhaps even designed ignorance of net energy, we can all safely ignore that, because you know less about it than you do about oil and gas.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby AdamB » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 21:50:54

ROCKMAN wrote:"Robust thermodynamic analysis suggests that energy lost to the oil-extraction business is closer to 50%". And once more a fine example of not understanding how little energy it takes to drill and produce oil and NG.


It isn't "not understanding" Rockman. In pstarrs case it is mostly just trolling, you do bite when his ilk spouts nonsense, and pstarr always throws this garbage out there. Fact free existence for pstarr is possible because folks like you who can deliver what he wants on time and target, leaving him free to live that existence.

You can't fix him by explaining the real world Rockman.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: Tremendous Oil Shortage is Looming Pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 15 Aug 2017, 09:01:07

"you would dig the same dirt whether you are paid $5/hour or your standard fee." No I wouldn't: I would deliver produce to restaurants because it pays better. LOL. Which I did for a short while during the 80's bust when I couldn't get enough consulting gigs.
User avatar
ROCKMAN
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 10547
Joined: Tue 27 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: TEXAS

Previous

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yoshua and 23 guests