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Trans Pacific Partnership

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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 12 Jun 2015, 18:49:46

Pops wrote:wow, blue collar republicans and most democrats joined together to reject the latest transnational corporate takeover of Asia led by Mr. O


I don't think most Ds and Rs voted against the TPP to protect Asia.

They voted against the TPP mainly to protect US jobs. Everybody can now see how Clinton's NAFTA bill helped wipe out US jobs---why make the same mistake again.

And the Ds and Rs voted no because they don't trust BO to negotiate a good deal. Basically, the vote is another repudiation of BO's leadership, especially on the Ds side where BO is supposedly the leader of the D party.

Note also that cowardly Hillary refused to take a public stand on the TPP vote, but in her past statements she has made it clear she's with BO on supporting the TPP.

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HIllary is a big TPP supporter, right along with BO.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 12 Jun 2015, 20:33:55

Pops wrote:wow, blue collar republicans and most democrats joined together to reject the latest transnational corporate takeover of Asia led by Mr. O


Indeed, quite stunning. I'm not often surprised by things, but I am surprised that it looks like this TPP may really go down. Because ALL of the american-based global corporations, were pushing for it, and corporations obviously have enormous power in government.

This is a very, very rare case of voters and people actually thwarting the will of the corporations and 1%. Our Constitution, working as intended. The Senate (always has been / intended to be the house of elites) voting for it, the Executive pushing it, hell I'm sure even the Roberts supreme court probably loves TPP -- but it crashed in the House. They just do not have the votes. From the peoples' chamber, the one closest to the voters, by design.

By the way, Constitution says declarations of war are supposed to come from the House, too, and it was never intended for the executive to just be a King-Emperor with all power in him, Congress just writing blank checks for war and blank checks for whatever trade deals and world government the Executive wants to pass for the next 6 darn years, without ever even telling anyone what the details of any future trade agreements are.

Our government was never supposed to work like that in the first place, well here you see with the House today it working the way it was supposed to, for once. The 99% still has some voice left, after all, against the massive power of all the corporations.

Drudgereport (right wing) has a very nice picture of Nancy Pelosi on the front page and a headline praising her bravery for standing up for America. So yeah, I've seen it all now! 8O

Image
PELOSI SAYS NO TO OBAMATRADE; TAKES BRAVE STAND FOR AMERICA
http://www.drudgereport.com/


Some actually fair journalism (or headline-picking journalistic editing) from Matt Drudge -- because actually this WAS a "brave stand" by Pelosi. Hillary Clinton won't even take a position, just won't say anything at all. But Pelosi is in the House and has a vote and she had to vote on this, one way or another, and as leader the pressure on her was enormous to just vote for the thing and go along with the President.

She had indicated she may have to vote for it. I'm surprised, she has voted against in the end, but that's a good thing -- how COULD she have voted for it, you can't just vote for something that's against every last bit of all your values you've ever been for. From environment to labor.

And Republican tea party in the House -- good for them, too. I'm sure they didn't like all the world government in this TPP and outright ceding sovereignty and a 6 year long BLANK CHECK where Obama and the next president could have done whatever free trade deals they want, with whatever soverignty-ceding world gov they want, and never even tell anyone what is in any of the future deals either, this one fast track covering not just TPP but all future deals as well for the next 6 years.

By the way -- the trans atlantic partnership deal caused a chaos in the EU parliament. Everyone wants to add amendments to it. Well shucks, isn't that nice, Europeans actually GET TO AMEND things and have some democracy in their parliament, regarding the trade deal, while we were not allowed this at all in our congress. Just secret total authority for the president to do whatever he wanted to.

(I'd be okay with trans atlantic free trade, my only issue would be trade tribunals and world government, but the pacific deal is the one that was going to suck many millions more jobs out of the US, at least with Europe you can say that was free trade between equals)

WASHINGTON, June 12 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued the following statement after the House scuttled a trade bill:

“As one of the Senate leaders in the fight against the Trans-Pacific Partnership, I applaud the House of Representatives for the vote today. While the fight will no doubt continue, today’s vote is a victory for America’s working people and for the environment.

The trade deal pushed by corporate America and Wall Street is the continuation of disastrous trade policies which have cost us millions of decent-paying jobs as large corporations shut down in this country and move to low-wage countries abroad. We need a new approach to trade, an approach which benefits the working families of our country, and not just the CEOs of multi-national corporations. The House vote is an important step in the right direction."
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-trade-bill_--


Bernie Sanders: Hillary’s TPP Stance a Cop-Out

"I do not understand how someone can be a major candidate for president of the united states and not have an opinion on an issue."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFZ6xcaGOnQ


(be aware though folks, this thing will still probably get pushed through somehow. There's a lot of Kabuki theater in Washington -- on unpopular votes, they bargain with each other for who can get to vote against something and then who has to actually vote for it. Safe seat people taking the unpopular vote, etc. People in riskier seats allowed to vote no, etc. That's why things always "just barely" pass, it's not really "just barely," they plan it all out.

The thing will likely still pass, they're just going to keep coming right back to the house with this thing trying every angle possible, they'll figure some way / trick to get it through.

A Pelosi may get to vote "no" but only for show, kabuki theater, if it's been figured out how to ram the thing through in some other way.

A lot of times in legislatures, there will be a lot of drama and just a big show about fighting something, and THEN they vote for it and you see it pass by "one" or a "few" votes.

Or, another thing they do is make some cosmetic change that really is not a change at all, like with the spying thing and changing the Patriot Act to the USA Freedom Act and then they make it looks like they did something different and then vote for it, but really it's not different at all.

However -- I think once they do finally ram this thing through with some trick, it will be at the cost of quite a bit of bitterness and populist backlash. It could strengthen the populist wave, going on right now, even more. Another thing, by the way, that could defeat these trade deals are actually the OTHER countries. Maybe this can get this pushed through in congress, but actually not those OTHER foreign governments, in the end.

Really, nobody likes to lose sovereignty, it means legislators handing over eco and GMO food and food safety and labor standards and everything, over to the new tribunals.)

And P.S. to Republicans -- this TPP thing is world government stuff, with the tribunals. Republican base is always against world government new world order stuff. If we're ever gonna have a world government, then at least have a EU style parliament with representatives that the people can vote for, but not a world government of secret trade tribunals with magistrates that nobody ever voted for or knows who the heck they are.

TPP could have all kinds of rights infringement on Republican base voters, that they would not like -- who knows, it could get into gun rights, etc., really anything. Because the trade tribunals have the power to regulate all trade and practices across the board in all the countries.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Sun 14 Jun 2015, 13:30:41

This article sums up what's probably going to happen next:

So what happens next? Probably, Obama calls up Pelosi and says, “OK, please pretty please do me this solid,” and then Democrats and Republicans get in a huddle and work out some more compromises, and Republicans agree to only cut a few hundred million dollars from Medicare, and Democrats say, “Fine, but can we also raise taxes on the rich?” and Republicans say, “Hahahahahahaha, good one!” and Democrats say, “Yeah, we know,” and then there is a slightly modified deal, and the House passes it and then the Senate passes it, and then that’s that. Secret trade deals for President Obama and whoever follows him (Hillary, it’s gonna be Hillary). And then the Republicans, whose besties will be making money like crazy with more offshoring, will complain about the loss of American jerbs to China. Or maybe Obama just says, “Screw you guys, I’m going home,” and resigns, because what is even the point anymore? Yeah, probably that.

Read more at http://wonkette.com/588295/democrats-be ... fvZBJLJ.99
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 14 Jun 2015, 13:35:30

I don't think President Obama is at all likely to leave officer before Januray 20, 2017. Other than that all I see is the same old pols doing the same old shuffle trying to keep BAU running through the next election so they can get themselves re elected.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Pops » Sun 14 Jun 2015, 15:32:23

I disagree, sub.

Some Rs are going against their corporate donors and voting for the best interest of the people who actually voted them into office, the blue collar, R voting folks who stand to lose their jobs so the owner's can make a few more bucks. I think that's a somewhat big deal because the normal rhetoric of the right is the more money the owners can suck up the better.

Not so much the Ds who typically are less free trade and more pro labor to begin with, especially the farther left you look, but still, going against the party's POTUS is notable. On the right side of the Ds of course, the Clinton/corporate wing obviously supports O, deregulation, free trade and whatever makes the owners richer (while maintaining their P/C image of course). HRC is about as concerned about the middle and below as Mitty was or likely Jeb is.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 14 Jun 2015, 16:54:08

The press is really oversimplifying what is going on with the TPP. For instance there isn't one bill being voted on---there are TWO separate bills that must pass.

The TPP bill was split into two parts for the house vote---the main "free-trade" bill of the TPP and a sub-bill called the TAA. You wouldn't know it from the press coverage but the "free-trade" part of the TPP has already passed the house. Yes, the "free-trade" portion of the TPP has already passed, people. In spite of what the press said, the Ds didn't defeat the TPP---they don't have the votes due to the strong R majority in favor of free trade in the house and the Rs voted the TPP through.

The second bill that was split off from the TPP called the TAA is what didn't pass. The TAA has to pass the house or the house bill won't match the provisions of the TPP bill that has already gone through the Senate---

The TAA authorizes the government to borrow money to spend ca. 2 billion dollars to retrain US workers who lose their jobs from the effects of the TPP. Thats an easy "no" vote for the Rs. Obama was counting on the Ds to vote for it, and he actually skipped a golf game and went to a meeting of the Dem caucus in Congress to beg for votes for the TAA (but being Obama, he said it was all about himself---he demanded Ds vote for the TAA for show their loyalty to him). Right after obama spoke, Nancy Pelosi got up and said she was voting no....and that gave her D caucus space to repudiate obama, vote no with her, and sink the TAA and along with the entire TPP.

So its mostly up to the Ds now. Most of the Rs are going to vote against the TAA and that will sink the TPP. That only way it will pass is if Obama and Hillary twist arms and get the Ds to vote for it and Boehner twists arms and makes more of the Rs vote for it. The whole thing is set up so Ds can vote for the TAA and then claim it was a vote to help workers.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 14 Jun 2015, 22:17:21

Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton said drug companies that would benefit from a Pacific trade pact should sell their products to the U.S. government at a discount in her strongest comments yet on an issue that has divided her party.
...
She said that U.S. drug companies that stand to boost foreign sales from the deal should be required to give bulk discounts to government programs like the Medicare health plan for the elderly.

"Our drug companies, if they are going to get what they want, they should give more to America," she said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/ ... W220150615

That is bizarre. The purported objective of these trade deals is that companies should get equal treatment everywhere. Foreign governments are not supposed to demand special deals for their healthcare systems. (Also, aren't some of the major drug companies foreign based or owned?)
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 15 Jun 2015, 22:17:05

CNN has come up with a list of 45 separate times that Hillary endorsed the TPP before she declared for president and started ducking the question.

I guess Hillary thinks Ds are so dumb they' won't be able to remember the dozens of times in the past when Hillary endorsed the TPP and instead will stare in wonderment as Hillary says she can't decide about the TPP now. :)
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 17 Jun 2015, 14:15:37

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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 17 Jun 2015, 21:33:31

TPP Is Not A Trade Fight — It’s A Fight For Democracy

White House spokesperson Josh Earnest dismissed it as a procedural snafu, and it was — but not in the way he meant.

The “it” was the stunning vote last week in the House of Representatives that wrecked that high-balling freight train called the Trans-Pacific Partnership. TPP is the global trade scam that was being railroaded through Congress, carrying an unbelievably odious load of freight that would give more power to Big Pharma, Wall Street, Walmart, Big Oil frackers, Silicon Valley monopolists, agribusiness giants, climate change deniers, job exporters, exploiters of labor and other multinational corporate elites.

None other than President Obama was running this locomotive, and GOP congressional leaders Mitch McConnell and John Boehner were the chief freight handlers. With the full corporate establishment onboard the TPP, its passage was a done deal. Except for one unforeseen obstacle: you. And you. And you. In other words, the American people!

The more you learned about what the TPP is carrying, the more you realized what a raw deal it is for your democratic rights, your jobs, income, health, environment, food, etc. — so the more involved you got in the StopTheTPP.org movement. “You The People” rose up in nearly every congressional district, and even though the national media didn’t notice you, Congress did. Thus, the done deal derailed — to the shock of Corporados and their politicos, nearly 70 percent of the House voted with the people against the Trans-Pacific Partnership.


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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 17 Jun 2015, 22:06:26

I think I need to comment about this. First, hip hip hooray, a few and far between victory by the people. Second this is truly emblematic of the insane institutions and people we have at the helm who despite the precarious state of the planet and world economy are STILL seeking their own aggrandizement to the peril of the future, the planet and all life on it. AMAZING.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Thu 18 Jun 2015, 13:42:25

Wow.

The House voted to resurrect the centerpiece of President Obama’s trade agenda Thursday, six days after his fellow Democrats dealt him a dramatic setback after a months-long lobbying effort.

Thursday’s 218-to-208 vote to grant Obama “fast track” authority to negotiate trade deals — including the controversial 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership — is a win for the president, but it is not yet a victory.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... tics_pop_b
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 18 Jun 2015, 16:09:33

Here is the legislative trick they're using to get obama's TPP bill passed. They're going to hide the TAA part of the TPP bill in an unrelated bill, so the Ds can sneakily vote for it.

“We’re as clear as we can be: TAA and TPA both need to pass. We’ll see what happens and what the House does, and hopefully everybody will come to their senses,” said Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.).... the plan is to take the popular African trade bill — which has been slightly altered by the House and needs Senate consideration — and amend it to include the worker training funds....

Fewer than 100 Republicans are willing to vote for TAA funding, so Obama .... needs about more 80 Democrats to switch from no to vote yes on the Africa bill (now containing the TAA bill) along with the Congressional Ds who already have voted for the TAA and the TPP
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 19 Jun 2015, 15:28:23

Nothing to see here, just the usual shenanigans from the politicians appearing to do something and doing something else, advocating for the people all the while undermining them, creating confusion and deception and ultimately voting against the peoples interest and in favor of the corporations interests.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Pops » Fri 19 Jun 2015, 15:38:52

Yeah crap, I had a glimmer of optimism there for a minute...
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 19 Jun 2015, 16:35:46

Pops wrote:Yeah crap, I had a glimmer of optimism there for a minute...

Yep Pops they almost had us fooled there. :shock:
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Sun 21 Jun 2015, 22:50:35

Great article on the TPP and Obama's presidency in general.

...Obama has done everything he can to keep the details of the TPP and TTIP under wraps. When you realize that the TPP would “affect the lives of millions of Americans, their jobs, their quality of life” (as Diana Johnstone recently noted on CounterPunch), the secrecy is astounding: U.S. Congress persons and some of their staff can see the TPP’s text only if they agree not to take notes or discuss the details in public!

It is also no wonder that Obama wants Congress to give him “fast-track authority” to force a yay or nay Congressional vote on the TPP, with no time for careful consideration and no chance for revisions. Under fast-track rules, there’s no chance for delays or alterations. The pact must be voted up or down in a very short time-frame. “The idea,” Baker noted, “is that with the bulk of the business community promising large campaign contributions to supporters and threatening to punish opponents, most members of Congress would find it difficult to vote no.”


http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/06/19/ ... s-melting/
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 25 Jun 2015, 19:12:04

Well, well, looks like now our merry band of servants of the people, yes Congress has decided to help fund the TPP, by cutting Medicare. hmm well they say they need too so that we can re-train some workers displaced by TPP. Is the reader still following this circular logic courtesy of a merry band. Yes TPP displaces American workers and we cut Medicare to help this despicable legislation pass. Oh but don't fret we will re-train you so you can be more competitive with your Chinese counterparts. Of course be prepared to take a big pay cut. :cry: :P
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 26 Jun 2015, 07:49:02

$200 MILLION WENT TO HOUSE MEMBERS TO PASS FAST TRACK – HERE'S WHO TOOK THE CASH

John Boehner (R-OH) received $5.3 million for a "yea" vote and was the highest paid legislator.

Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) received $2.4 million for his "yea" vote.

Paul Ryan (R-WI) received $2.4 million for a "yea" vote and came in at the third highest paid legislator.

Pat Tiberi (R-OH) follows Paul Ryan, coming in the fourth spot having received $1.6 million for his "yea" vote.
http://www.occupy.com/article/200-million-went-house-members-pass-fast-track-%E2%80%93-heres-who-took-cash
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 26 Jun 2015, 08:06:26

onlooker wrote:Oh but don't fret we will re-train you so you can be more competitive with your Chinese counterparts. Of course be prepared to take a big pay cut.


Lot of IT jobs will be going to China, Asia, and India. Lot of jobs going to Vietnam -- who can compete against twenty cents an hour?

Any kind of office work -- going to India. If it can be one on a phone, it's goin' to India. If it can be done with a keyboard and computer screen and internet connection -- it's goin' to India.

X-rays -- read over the internet, by an Indian radiologist.

The fact of the matter is, that Indians can do anything we can do. There's 500,000,000 indians that would love a job and do not even have access to a toilet, they are so poor.

How are we going to compete with this? Immigrants still streaming over the southern border, too, and jobs still going to latin america from previous trade deals.

I just wonder how it will all stay afloat. Folk won't have a job to afford cable tv in the first place, to ever get a chance to call customer service and get somebody in India on the telephone.

Neat site you linked, by the way, onlooker. Bernie's always talking about corporations stashing their money in the caymans, I noticed this article on the site you linked:

Caymans Exposed: Tax Havens Lucrative for Big Finance, Leave Only Crumbs for Locals
Being a tax haven isn’t all it is cracked up to be.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/06/caymans-exposed-tax-havens-lucrative-for-big-finance-leave-only-crumbs-for-locals.html
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