Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 13:50:23


I was brought to the practice of mindfulness more than two decades ago by the death of my first child. Aaron died two months after he was born, never having left the hospital. Shortly after that, a friend introduced me to a teacher from whom I learned the basics of Vipassana meditation: how to breathe mindfully and meditate with “choiceless” awareness. I remember attending a dharma talk in a room full of fifty meditators. The teacher spoke about the Four Noble Truths. Life is inherently unsatisfactory, he said. The ego’s restless desires are no sooner fulfilled than they find new objects. Craving and aversion breed suffering. One of his examples was waiting in line for a movie and then not getting in. I asked: “But what if you’re not suffering because of some trivial attachment? What if it’s about something significant, ...


"The Wisdom of Dark Emotions"
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 3156
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 14:14:35

Adam,

I stared reading this but got turned off pretty quick.

What came to my mind was a TED talk that discussed our basic happiness level and how after 6 months of any major event, good or bad, we pretty much end up back at our prior happiness level.

Which got me to thinking about folks who are all pissed off about some past event. Kind of makes me think they just want to be pissed off and are looking for an excuse.

Was there some particular point you thought was significant in this piece? Why are you linking to it?
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 9398
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby evilgenius » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 18:03:40

I've always held that anger exists to tell you something needs to be done, not for itself. That's one of those dark emotions. It does serve a purpose. It's also so very tempting to let it take over.
User avatar
evilgenius
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2234
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Stopped at the border.

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 18:23:30

Yep Evil. I am sure anger is the most important factor in overcoming addiction, to substances or toxic relationships. Managing it is a hard earned skill though.
SeaGypsy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 9036
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 19:21:03

Newfie wrote:Was there some particular point you thought was significant in this piece? Why are you linking to it?


The news posted at the front door of the website seems to collect commentary that never rarely gets seen because it never ends up inside the forum, two different groups or methods of collecting information maybe?

Seemed like an interesting idea to bring them into the right forum (can't say it was mine though), but I've been surprised at the conversations popping up around them. I mean really, with so much going on in the world that has nothing to do with random number generators, what's wrong with opening up the conversations? Heck, a doomer or two might have an accidental firing of a synapse that triggers an avalanche of thinking and presto! doom of sock puppets! I can hope anyway.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 3156
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 16:10:26

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby evilgenius » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 12:07:27

Many years ago I was watching this guy on a cable access channel. He was talking about men who abuse women. His contention was that those men largely cannot defend themselves verbally against their women. After the situation becomes too built up, they use physical force to speak for them. It makes for kind of a release, as usually those men are so nice to their women during the time immediately after they have hit them that their women become so taken with that behavior over that period and pine for it. What they see in their men during that time causes them to care so much for them that they don't leave them, or stay too long once things get bad again.

Stepping quickly aside from whether it is appropriate for a man to stay in a relationship with a woman who can't appreciate a communicative man, but wants one who worships her the way a penitent man does, we can take a look at this. Those men repeat this cycle. They don't learn to express themselves. They don't learn to communicate what they want. They don't learn how to compromise. Instead, they court anger. Anger dissipates with physical exertion. It doesn't entirely go away, though. If you don't get rid of the reasons for its existence it will come back. It can come back again, too, simply because of buttons, if you will, being pushed. When something that has grown to stand for what makes a person angry is raised or transpires that can be all it takes to get back into full blown anger, without the prior need for continued build up.

It can be tough to realize what traps a person into a cycle. As the cable access guy said, it can be an inability to participate. Sometimes, for me, it can arise because I have given my word and find that it is impossible for me to keep it. If I give my word I don't consider that extenuating circumstances let me out of it. It can be like HAL from 2001 a Space Odyssey. As a result, I don't often give my word. But, getting away from myself and extrapolating this towards others, it is possible for a person to find themselves trapped in situations where they have sort of given an easement, where they have to accept the same sort of situation exists as if they had given their word. People may renege on their word, but they might not upon these situations, resulting in anger. People around them rely upon them so much that they can't be their self, or they feel committed to something when they never had the chance to formally do so. I don't think that anger always expresses itself through outright violence. It can express itself in other destructive ways. It can underlie certain pathological behaviors. At its root it probably wants us to stand up for ourselves, but it can, strangely, direct its force at us as well, in order to try and get that done.
User avatar
evilgenius
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2234
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Stopped at the border.

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 12:24:14

Men have control. They have the y-chromosone, testosterone, size and captive females. As it has always been.

Society has more control. Men need society. We have culture, tradition and laws. But we need men. As it has always been.
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26304
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 13:21:34

pstarr wrote:Men have control. They have the y-chromosone, testosterone, size and captive females. As it has always been.

Society has more control. Men need society. We have culture, tradition and laws. But we need men. As it has always been.


So says the guy calm man who exalts the virtue of anger in his sig.
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby Cog » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 14:05:06

There are times righteous anger is justified.
User avatar
Cog
Anti-Matter
Anti-Matter
 
Posts: 9481
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Metro-East Illinois

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 15:06:58

Cog wrote:There are times righteous anger is justified.


I take it this is what you had in mind?

Image
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 15:15:47

asgy, no need to get your panties all bunched up. Cog has his outlets: guns and MRE's. You might want to find a more gentle release? Computer games dirty pictures or even an education?

This is place is good for that. You can learn all about the oil industry and human ecology. Failing that, have you tried knitting?
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26304
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby asg70 » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 15:18:18

pstarr wrote:This is place is good for that. You can learn all about the oil industry and human ecology. Failing that, have you tried knitting?


Condescension, much???

Are you even capable of posting without lobbing a cheap insult?

There's reason to hold both you and Cog in contempt. You're two peas in a pod in a way.

BTW, as for learning, try watching the video on my sig. It contains inconvenient truth for peak-oil die-hards such as yourself, hence you avert your eyes. Much better to perversely gloat over the ashes of wine suburbia while continuing to deny the AGW that caused it.
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby Cog » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 17:15:39

asg70 wrote:
Cog wrote:There are times righteous anger is justified.


I take it this is what you had in mind?

Image



I knew Godwin's law would prevail in the end. Congrats man.
User avatar
Cog
Anti-Matter
Anti-Matter
 
Posts: 9481
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Metro-East Illinois

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 01:52:23

AdamB wrote:
Newfie wrote:Was there some particular point you thought was significant in this piece? Why are you linking to it?


The news posted at the front door of the website seems to collect commentary that never rarely gets seen because it never ends up inside the forum, two different groups or methods of collecting information maybe?

Seemed like an interesting idea to bring them into the right forum (can't say it was mine though), but I've been surprised at the conversations popping up around them. I mean really, with so much going on in the world that has nothing to do with random number generators, what's wrong with opening up the conversations? Heck, a doomer or two might have an accidental firing of a synapse that triggers an avalanche of thinking and presto! doom of sock puppets! I can hope anyway.


Thanks.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 9398
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 04:23:32

Probably none of us would be on this forum if not for some dark emotional reaction to it's core subject. Others have reacted very differently. I doubt even the relative utopians here haven't been through some very dark reflections at some stage.
SeaGypsy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 9036
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 07:16:07

Cog wrote:There are times righteous anger is justified.


Cog,

Just a bit of editorial comment, not criticism.

When you make an open ended comment, such as this, it is probable that someone will interpret it in a unintended manner. Such comments are useful if you are intending to draw someone out. But mostly they just add to concussion and miscommunication.

It's far better to add some descriptor to put the comment on context. Otherwise you are just throwing the board into turmoil.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 9398
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 11:20:40

Cog wrote:There are times righteous anger is justified.

Yes, Cog, but God says that He is slow to anger, and quick to forgive. That would suggest that God's anger only comes after careful deliberation. And, after taking everything into account, when a piece of what has caused that anger changes, somebody repents maybe, the anger no longer holds sway. That would make anger more of a tool, not a reason to act. Can you say that about your comment? It's open ended, so I have no idea.
User avatar
evilgenius
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2234
Joined: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Stopped at the border.

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 17:11:36

Anger is a reactionary emotion. I would be more concerned with Hate. To me wisdom means controlling one's impulsive reactionary emotions. But it also means to chose positive emotions for the sake of one's own happiness and the harmony of those around you and who you interact with. If people tried to have more positive emotions more often, I also think all of us would get along much better.
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
User avatar
onlooker
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7964
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 17:20:45

Anger is a normal human emotion, coded into our genes. It's a valuable tool to communicate unease pain and fear.
Image
We scowl to send message like any great ape. Is it time to change my signature :-D 8)
Haven't you heard? I'm a doomer!
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 26304
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: The Wisdom Of The Dark Emotions

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 17:28:03

How the cornies must look when we taunt them hehe.
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
User avatar
onlooker
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7964
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Next

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests