[Lore]

This thread seems to be running under the constant assumption that Wal-Mart is the cheapest, it is not and this has been proven in many price studies. And if you factor in the gas and the work time lost traveling to a distant Wal-Mart and waiting in line forever vs. going in and out of an Aldi's or dollar store the comparison gets even worse. The internet (Ebay, Amazon) consistently beats Wal-Mart- even with shipping costs. Ever tried to return something at Walmart? Usually 20-30 minutes you could be working and earning salary.

That is exactly why Walmart cannot win, with its everyday, everlow prices. Being cheap has no bottom. There is always someone out there that will take the business for a nickel less.

The reason Apple has succeeded is because it places a premium value on its product that the public recognizes and is willing to pay for.

[dsula]

The reason Apple has succeeded is because it places a premium value on its product that the public recognizes and is willing to pay for.

What you mean succeeded? Do you argue that walmart did NOT succeed? Holy shit, it's probably more successful than anybody. Is it good for the nation? Good for small towns? Maybe not, but that's another story.

The reason apple succeeded is the same reason walmart succeeded. They both offer a product people want to buy, although in both cases I don't understand why. On one side it's useless cheap Chinese crap, on the other side it's more expensive useless cheap Chinese crap. We conclude: people like to buy crap.

[efarmer]

Good thread, what we eat, and wear, and consume is a tangible and personal choice. I divorced last year at 59 due to the rotten economy taking it's toll
on our Mom and Pop venture and have become a big fan of Dollar General. They seem to do some of what made Walmart great, but they skip asking the local government for tax abatements and public money to open a smaller store. They have a mix of Asian goods and American and goods from the Canada, America,Mexico, and South America products we should really push to compete with Asia and in fact challenge them. I am also a business owner and designer and manufacturer of electronics, in my own business with building and employees in my 24th year. I try to buy American when I can, I try to by built in America but avoid built somewhere with an American brand. I do like the idea of global trade because it avoids global warfare by replacing it with global competition. Unfortunately when our Congress are whores for sale, they have to represent whom will generate the biggest campaign donations with the best cloak of secrecy to hide where they get what they sell to pony up their homage bucks. I still find American products outside automotive to be
more bang for the buck if available at a non mall or WM or dumb consumer
outlet. We make good stuff, we have good people, we have good soldiers, and good infrastructure, and good land and cities. We just have a government at the Federal Level that is as fucked up as a football bat. Know your neighbors and your locals and your local law enforcement folks and sheriff folks. These are all still fine for the most part. The FEDS are mostly bought and lost. I am sure we can fix this with bottom up effort over the long term, do not expect them to do you many favors in the interim in Washington, they don't depend on us or work for us, so I don't blame them for ignoring us and giving themselves a good raise when they can't seem to agree on anything for those of us who voted to send them to where they were eunichs for global donations to guard the money harem for those who can afford to hire them on. Don't let liberal and conservative make a binky to stick in your mouth so you can suck on fantasy
instead of lack of representation. Having said that if you need one, tune in to Fox or MSNBC and get a nice binky and form your dream and double down into a great slumber. My extreme filter take on this thread is that if you are buying goods for prices that you could not tolerate the labor in your own craft or skill to render equivalently, you are subsidizing the erosion of your own income with a time lag introduced by the labor force involved before the effects impact your own world. It is a bubble, and I only like them on pear shaped women's backsides, and champaign.

[dinopello]

We conclude: people like to buy crap.

My neighbor was showing me a garden hose splitter he bought that already had a pinhole leak near one of the connections. We both lamented the fact that even if you want to pay whatever it costs to buy high quality stuff that will last forever there is no place you can go. Everyone sells cheap crap (charging different prices). We'd like to see a store that sells expensive stuff that is the best made stuff from wherever it is made best.

[Lore]

The reason Apple has succeeded is because it places a premium value on its product that the public recognizes and is willing to pay for.

What you mean succeeded? Do you argue that walmart did NOT succeed? Holy shit, it's probably more successful than anybody. Is it good for the nation? Good for small towns? Maybe not, but that's another story.

The reason apple succeeded is the same reason walmart succeeded. They both offer a product people want to buy, although in both cases I don't understand why. On one side it's useless cheap Chinese crap, on the other side it's more expensive useless cheap Chinese crap. We conclude: people like to buy crap.

The jury is still out about Walmart as to the original OP. Their gross profit margins on merchandise is also lower then Apple, 24.6 compared to 37.5, with a lot more overhead.

[Lore]

We conclude: people like to buy crap.

My neighbor was showing me a garden hose splitter he bought that already had a pinhole leak near one of the connections. We both lamented the fact that even if you want to pay whatever it costs to buy high quality stuff that will last forever there is no place you can go. Everyone sells cheap crap (charging different prices). We'd like to see a store that sells expensive stuff that is the best made stuff from wherever it is made best.

You can buy quality. For example, I get clothes from Filson, they will fix and repair anything you get from them. The stuff is made so well, you can hand it down to the next generation after you gave it daily use. There is a shoemaker just North of me that will put custom shoes or boots on your feet and resole them free for life.

The problem is people are convinced they need more stuff, by commercial advertising even if its crap, rather then purchase things that will last.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Since corporate profits are way up, that shouldn't be a mystery.

In the real world, where facts count (instead of ideological wishful thinking) corporate profits are up because of trends like:

1). Employers are using more automation and less labor.
2). Employers are continuing to offshore to cheaper labor and fire first world labor.

How does this fit your fantasy that employers become wildly profitable by paying higher wages? If this is such a great recipe for corporate success, why don't YOU start a corporation and pay street people, say, $10,000 per week? You should be a billionaire in no time if you're theories are correct.

(Hint: don't hold your breath expecting that to happen).

[dolanbaker]

We conclude: people like to buy crap.

My neighbour was showing me a garden hose splitter he bought that already had a pinhole leak near one of the connections. We both lamented the fact that even if you want to pay whatever it costs to buy high quality stuff that will last forever there is no place you can go. Everyone sells cheap crap (charging different prices). We'd like to see a store that sells expensive stuff that is the best made stuff from wherever it is made best.

Generally if you want quality stuff, they you really need to go to the "commercial" retailers, people who sell to the trade.
For example tools form the same supplier as the construction companies use or kitchen appliances from the same company that fitted out the local hotel. That stuff is designed to last as it will do more work in a year than most domestic stuff does in a decade.

[dinopello]

We conclude: people like to buy crap.

My neighbour was showing me a garden hose splitter he bought that already had a pinhole leak near one of the connections. We both lamented the fact that even if you want to pay whatever it costs to buy high quality stuff that will last forever there is no place you can go. Everyone sells cheap crap (charging different prices). We'd like to see a store that sells expensive stuff that is the best made stuff from wherever it is made best.

Generally if you want quality stuff, they you really need to go to the "commercial" retailers, people who sell to the trade.
For example tools form the same supplier as the construction companies use or kitchen appliances from the same company that fitted out the local hotel. That stuff is designed to last as it will do more work in a year than most domestic stuff does in a decade.

Yes, good advice. I do that for tools and some other items. I guess we were wondering of there was enough of a market for a chain that marketed that they have the best quality stuff from around the world - rather than the cheapest stuff.

[dolanbaker]

We conclude: people like to buy crap.

My neighbour was showing me a garden hose splitter he bought that already had a pinhole leak near one of the connections. We both lamented the fact that even if you want to pay whatever it costs to buy high quality stuff that will last forever there is no place you can go. Everyone sells cheap crap (charging different prices). We'd like to see a store that sells expensive stuff that is the best made stuff from wherever it is made best.

Generally if you want quality stuff, they you really need to go to the "commercial" retailers, people who sell to the trade.
For example tools form the same supplier as the construction companies use or kitchen appliances from the same company that fitted out the local hotel. That stuff is designed to last as it will do more work in a year than most domestic stuff does in a decade.

Yes, good advice. I do that for tools and some other items. I guess we were wondering of there was enough of a market for a chain that marketed that they have the best quality stuff from around the world - rather than the cheapest stuff.

The problem is that it makes sense for the manufacturers to make crap! so they can sell more of it than the durable stuff, which in many cases cost only about 10-20% more than the crap to make.

They sell for about twice the price as well.

[dsula]

The problem is that it makes sense for the manufacturers to make crap! so they can sell more of it than the durable stuff, which in many cases cost only about 10-20% more than the crap to make.

They sell for about twice the price as well.

I don't think that's the problem. The problem is for you and me to figure out what is quality and what not. It's probably easy with a pair of shoes, maybe with a screwdriver. But it gets progressively more difficult and almost impossible once the product is complex.
What do I do if I want to buy a digital camera that actually lasts longer than 3 years on average? Even if it exists, I won't be able to tell. What about a harddrive? A printer? So most of the time you simply go for the cheapest, because if you pay more you don't know if you buy quality or getting screwed.

[dolanbaker]

The problem is that it makes sense for the manufacturers to make crap! so they can sell more of it than the durable stuff, which in many cases cost only about 10-20% more than the crap to make.

They sell for about twice the price as well.

I don't think that's the problem. The problem is for you and me to figure out what is quality and what not. It's probably easy with a pair of shoes, maybe with a screwdriver. But it gets progressively more difficult and almost impossible once the product is complex.
What do I do if I want to buy a digital camera that actually lasts longer than 3 years on average? Even if it exists, I won't be able to tell. What about a harddrive? A printer? So most of the time you simply go for the cheapest, because if you pay more you don't know if you buy quality or getting screwed.

The problem with most consumer electronics is "planned obsolescence", in other words, it's old before it expires or in the case of some cheap printers, they build in a suicide chip that kills the machine after a certain number of pages are printed. With the rapid advances in technology, I often find that kit (even the cheapest stuff) rarely fails, it just becomes "legacy" and no longer usable with newer equipment, a printer with a parallel or serial lead being a good example.

Perceived obsolescence is also a big problem if you don't want to look "out of date".

[Lore]

Since corporate profits are way up, that shouldn't be a mystery.

In the real world, where facts count (instead of ideological wishful thinking) corporate profits are up because of trends like:

1). Employers are using more automation and less labor.
2). Employers are continuing to offshore to cheaper labor and fire first world labor.

How does this fit your fantasy that employers become wildly profitable by paying higher wages? If this is such a great recipe for corporate success, why don't YOU start a corporation and pay street people, say, $10,000 per week? You should be a billionaire in no time if you're theories are correct.

(Hint: don't hold your breath expecting that to happen).

No fantasy, just the facts of the tape.

You're making a false comparison. Walmart workers for the most part are retail workers, not manufacturing related help. You can't outsource a Walmart associate.

[Keith_McClary]

Walmart Admits that its Business Model Requires Employees to Depend on Food Stamps

In their annual report, filed with the Security and Exchange Commission last week, the retail giant lists factors that could potentially harm future profitability. Listed among items such as "economic conditions" and "consumer confidence," the company writes that changes in taxpayer-funded public assistance programs are also a major threat to their bottom line.
The company writes:

Our business operations are subject to numerous risks, factors and uncertainties, domestically and internationally, which are outside our control … These factors include … changes in the amount of payments made under the Supplement[al] Nutrition Assistance Plan and other public assistance plans, changes in the eligibility requirements of public assistance plans …

[Plantagenet]

In their annual report, filed with the Security and Exchange Commission last week, the retail giant lists factors that could potentially harm future profitability. Listed among items such as "economic conditions" and "consumer confidence," the company writes that changes in taxpayer-funded public assistance programs are also a major threat to their bottom line.

Food stamp dependency is at record levels in the US

Millions of people who receive food stamps shop for food at WalMart.

If money for food stamps is cut back, then the millions of people on food stamps who shop at Walmart will spend less at WalMart.

Isn't that obvious?


easy peasy

[Lore]

Walmart Admits that its Business Model Requires Employees to Depend on Food Stamps

In their annual report, filed with the Security and Exchange Commission last week, the retail giant lists factors that could potentially harm future profitability. Listed among items such as "economic conditions" and "consumer confidence," the company writes that changes in taxpayer-funded public assistance programs are also a major threat to their bottom line.
The company writes:

Our business operations are subject to numerous risks, factors and uncertainties, domestically and internationally, which are outside our control … These factors include … changes in the amount of payments made under the Supplement[al] Nutrition Assistance Plan and other public assistance plans, changes in the eligibility requirements of public assistance plans …

Honest wages are not outside their control.

[Plantagenet]

Honest wages are not outside their control.

When unemployment is high, wages are going to be depressed.

We've basically had a jobless recovery for the last five years. Low wages at Walmart are just a symptom of the sustained weakness in the US economy we've seen during the Obama administration.

[dolanbaker]

It's always amusing to see just how quickly people blame the puppets for their problems, rather than looking at the puppet masters.

[Lore]

Quite right, at least here in the US its become the corporate plutocrats.

[phaster]

Only about half of Walmart workers are covered by its health care plans, in part because the costs may be too high. While the company decided to expand health care coverage to part-time workers in 2006, it has since reversed course.

Thats an unintended consequence of Obamacare. Now that the federal government has mandated that part-time workers need not be covered by Obamacare health insurance, employers across the US are cutting hours and benefits for part-time workers so they correspond to the Obamacare definition of part-time workers.

FWIW heard another economic argument that might explain why many state and local politicians wanted the "Affordable Care Act" (AKA Obamacare). Basically its a way for municipal governments that have not funded their own health care plans, to dump their current/past workers into another system (thus kicking the can down the road for another three years - which is the time period that that the federal government is said to be picking up the tab)

The more I look at the problem, the more I see things are not going to end all that well...