The US Governmental Accountability Office (GAO) Thread (merg

[JPL]

Government is about to step in. It will get ugly.

What, more that it did in the last century you mean? That's not possible.



Without oil, these pictures will start to rest where they belong - in the history books.

JPL

[Twilight]

Pathetic. They're boasting about asking questions, yet reproduce claims such as the IEA's projection without analysis. This is what these people think. This is what these other people think. These people are doing that. No attempt to dig into the data. Sure it's crap, but it's not that crap. Peak in 2040 would need the past to have looked different. Peak in 2020 needs the past to have looked different. They don't yet realise that stuff can be determined already, probably got blinded by the sort of near-term detail we argue about and reduced it to "uncertainty". Just because a bunch of pundits can't agree on the detail of the next 10 years doesn't mean events over multiples of 10 years are subject to the same uncertainty.

I don't know. With that level of getting their act together, maybe we're better off with governments not addressing the problem?

[Ludi]

I don't know. With that level of getting their act together, maybe we're better off with governments not addressing the problem?

For my own part, I would rather "the government" please not get involved! I would like to see communities, groups, and individuals get involved, but not the government.


But that's because I expect them to crap it up for everyone, not help.

[Twilight]

For my own part, I would rather "the government" please not get involved!

...

But that's because I expect them to crap it up for everyone, not help.

Yeah, I'm starting to have doubts, feeling maybe I should be careful what I'm wishing. I always thought of energy as a challenge for central planners, felt frustration at the lack of urgency, up until a few days ago thinking even a late command economy response could soften the impact in the event the collapse was gradual rather than instant. But now the subject is appearing on the lips of government for the first time, I'm seeing ignorance (or maybe helplessness) which looks just plain dangerous. Maybe it's best if they went back to sleep, hitting an iceberg is bad enough without evasive action ripping machinery from its mountings.

[MD]

Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night

Words: Dylan Thomas

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[NEOPO]

MD - A timeless composition.

9.11 + Afghanistan + Iraq + Iran = my government is doing something and alot of it! I dont think the majority of the greedy sheeple would disagree if they were aware of the levity of the situation and what the alternatives would mean to their lifestyle.
At this point they can remain relatively undisturbed while silently condoning their governments actions.

Things havent really gotten interesting yet.
No gas lines, no food chain interuptus of any great significance etc etc and what we did experience was a dress rehearsal provided by the weather so the sheeple easily dismiss it.
I expect to see both the sheeple and their government getting involved very shortly albeit reluctantly.
So much depends on the weather and war.
Ju Ju Be?
I am gonna go find a back row seat just in case someone yells "fire!".

Peakers never sleep - they wait!

[dinopello]

Mr. Whipple weighs in on the significance of the report

The GAO Report

Thus, the real dilemma of coping peak oil, for a while at least, is really quite simple. If the government should lay out the full ramifications of peaking in hopes of rallying the people to make preparations, the most immediate consequence is likely to be serious economic setback triggered by an unambiguous announcement itself.

.
.
.

So there you have it. The GAO did their job by warning the Congress that peak oil might just be a very serious problem very soon, and the DOW is still going up. Sometimes government agencies are not that dumb after all!

[Twilight]

If people are not aware, it matters little whether the government is aware. There really is very little any government can do about a structural problem on this scale without public participation. Maybe the only intelligent thing they're doing is prolonging the party if they know it is too late to act in any manner at all.

[MonteQuest]

If people are not aware, it matters little whether the government is aware. There really is very little any government can do about a structural problem on this scale without public participation. Maybe the only intelligent thing they're doing is prolonging the party if they know it is too late to act in any manner at all.

Or maybe they plan to smother peak oil under a shroud of war.

Or shift the blame and cause to terrorism. More war.

Bottom line.

More war.

[sch_peakoiler]

Now, KillJOY - you know we can't upset the proles or outer party members. That would be double-plus ungood.

Once again, Jack, respect for your posts! Precise, up to the point, and just enough humour not to let it go offtopic. Thumbs up:)

[JPL]

Or maybe they plan to smother peak oil under a shroud of war.

Or shift the blame and cause to terrorism. More war.

Bottom line.

More war.

Without fossil fuels, that's not possible - it wouldn't be the sort of wars we had in the 20'th century. Anyhow, what would be the point?

There is a bigger war coming, soon, which is the fight to keep what we have. This one won't involve bullets.

JPL

[MonteQuest]

Or maybe they plan to smother peak oil under a shroud of war.

Or shift the blame and cause to terrorism. More war.

Bottom line.

More war.

Without fossil fuels, that's not possible -

Who says we won't have fossil fuels to fight war?

700 million barrels of SPR will fuel a lot of war.

We produce 5 mbpd in the US.

Anyhow, what would be the point?

War has never needed a point before, why start now?

[mattduke]

Puplava Interviews Simmons Regarding GAO Report
He's the "2nd hour expert" on this week's Big Picture.

http://www.netcastdaily.com/fsnewshour.htm

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

Anyhow, what would be the point?

The point would be to kill another group to take their resources, the way the world has always worked.

Along the same lines the US also has the added problem of stopping another power rising up with the remaining oil.

[JPL]

Anyhow, what would be the point?

The point would be to kill another group to take their resources, the way the world has always worked.

No, there are other paradimes. Post-medieval Europe after the first Black Death, for example. When 50% of the population died and a lot of the farmland went back to scrub-land. Roads were left un-made and whole villages & towns were abandoned.

It was 100+ years before the European economy recovered to the point where people 'needed' resources. Wars weren't possible, during the post-medieval 'transition stage', there just wasn't the manpower to do it...

JPL

[JPL]

700 million barrels of SPR will fuel a lot of war.

We produce 5 mbpd in the US.

Yes, & I'm very pleased for you. If it's any consolation, we have about the same amount of production-level in Europe. So I guess we can (also!) fight lots of wars too.

But I still say, what for? If you take our 5, and put it with your 5, that's still not enough oil (pleuugh). So what do we all do?

Good luck...

JPL

[MonteQuest]

But I still say, what for? If you take our 5, and put it with your 5, that's still not enough oil (pleuugh). So what do we all do?

Fight until it is all gone.

This is not my plan or my notion.

This is how it has always been.

[peripato]

But I still say, what for? If you take our 5, and put it with your 5, that's still not enough oil (pleuugh). So what do we all do?

Fight until it is all gone.

This is not my plan or my notion.

This is how it has always been.

Conflict will probably cause the overall world decline to be far steeper than is commonly presumed by destroying access to the very sources of oil and dependent infrastructure that is being fought for. We have seen this already with Iraq.

T.S. Eliot was wrong when he speculated that life might not be destroyed in some cataclysm, but instead fade to grey - fitfully, mournfully. Life (or at the very least civilised life) it seems is on a collision course to end with a Bang and not a whimper given the state of absolute inertia and denial by TPTB about the predicaments that are converging upon us.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

When 50% of the population died and a lot of the farmland went back to scrub-land. Roads were left un-made and whole villages & towns were abandoned.

Yes well, clearly when there are less people there is less war.

[DesertBear2]

Post-medieval Europe after the first Black Death, for example. When 50% of the population died and a lot of the farmland went back to scrub-land. Roads were left un-made and whole villages & towns were abandoned.

It was 100+ years before the European economy recovered to the point where people 'needed' resources. Wars weren't possible, during the post-medieval 'transition stage', there just wasn't the manpower to do it...JPL

My knowledge of 14th Century is not the best but it seems that there was quite a bit of warfare after the black plague events.

Black Plague 1348-50
Hundred Years War 1337-1453

"The 14th century gives us back two contradictory images: on the one hand a glittering time of crusades and chivalry and exquisitely illuminated Books of Hours; on the other, a time of ferocity and and spiritual agony- a world plunged into chaos. These are the years when the black death struck in the great plague of 1348 -50, killing more than a third of the entire population between India and Iceland, and returned four times during the rest of the century...when freebooting companies of brigands terorized Europe with impunity ...when a "hundred years' war" seemed to have no beginning and no end, and defying the belligerents own efforts to end it, acquired a life of it's own, "an epic of brutality and bravery checered by disgrace". -- Barbara Tuchman, A Distant Mirror