Licho wrote:Raxozane, UK doesn't have double population now.
It had about 50 million in WW2, and 60 million now..
Mainland is similar, only very low pop. increase and currently population is decreasing in many countries..
Also, which "complex societies" did collapse before? What "spectacular" crashes are you talking about?
Most complex society that "crashed" was probably roman empire, and their fall took almost 500 years.. really "spectacular"..
Licho wrote:Who said, that the current economic/financial system is the only one that can work? If you have factories, manpower and energy in place, you don't need money to keep economy running..
Berkeley wrote:That's a smart observation - and I have wondered why it would not be in the better interests of the Heinberg and Kunstler types (which include me, in fact) just to keep quiet, since their relish in the destruction of the business as usual American way might be disappointed if their warnings got heeded in time. Maybe they need to be pessimistic in order to justify their own roles?
venky wrote:On the other hand I would agree that Matt Simmons does perhaps see the monetary benefits that might come to him after peak oil. After all he calls for oil prices to almost quadruple from their current values. If that happens suddenly it might just kill our economy off, even if it means massive profits for the oil companies and their investment bankers.
Licho wrote:Yes, but I think that most people realize what is even ASPO repeating:
Peak oil is not peak of energy, it's just peak of oil, peak of liquid fuels..
RG73 wrote:Licho wrote:Yes, but I think that most people realize what is even ASPO repeating:
Peak oil is not peak of energy, it's just peak of oil, peak of liquid fuels..
And peak fertilizer
JohnDenver wrote:Nitrogen fertilizer (N) is made from ammonia, which in turn is manufactured from natural gas, not oil. Natural gas is not peaking, but when it does, there will still be plenty of ammonia available because vast quantities of it are produced daily in the form of human and animal urine.RG73 wrote:Licho wrote:Yes, but I think that most people realize what is even ASPO repeating:
Peak oil is not peak of energy, it's just peak of oil, peak of liquid fuels..
And peak fertilizer
Permanently_Baffled wrote:
AND throwing away 38% of all the food we produce we are still 63% self sufficient!
Throwing away that much!!! That's criminal!
Do you have the time band for that 1.4million tons of oil used in agriculture in the UK, is it per year?
Anyway yeah I suppose the biggest threats are therefore:
- nucleur war (as you mention)
- rioting due to financial break down
- people rioting due to their rejection of a new (oil preserving) way of life, care to tell all those middle class moms they have to give up their suvs
RG73 wrote:And peak fertilizer and pesticide, and hence, peak agriculture. Toss in water depletion, fishery destruction, soil loss/desertification, global warming/Gulf Stream collapse, many metals becoming scarcer, and the world's largest economy burried in debt.....I'm not a doomer, but the writing is on the wall. If it were just one issue we're facing we'd be fine. It's many issues, many of which are interelated, and we're not going to just invent our way out of the mess. Scientists and other's have been warning the world for about 30+ years now of all of these impending problems--and were called doomers. And yet it all comes to pass.
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