[Ludi]

When teamwork becomes necessary, we're all going to have to relearn the value of tolerance, and listening, and having a more open mind.

What I see starting here and with Nate's essay on TOD is this growing recognition that staying in your ideological ghetto, even a doomer one, is merely a BAU-style response.

Staying in my ideological ghetto just isn't possible where I live - I don't know a single other person with a similar worldview except maybe my husband. But it's possible to find something in common with most people, in my limited experience.

[Ludi]

But yes BAU fosters isolation. After all, you are much more useful to the capitalist owners when you do not form buying cooperatives, unions, etc. To share goods and property is a revolutionary act and will be crushed with all the might of the world's strongest military/industrial complex.

Pstarr, I want you to read what you just wrote here. It's boilerplate fatalistic doomer ranting.

I guess I'm wondering what the likelihood is the military/industrial complex will crush the Transition Town movement. I know it is a popular idea that TPTB give a poop what we do, are watching our every move, and lying in wait to stop us from living as we choose. So far, I haven't seen a lot of that personally, that is, I've never been stopped from doing anything I want to do. My conclusion is, TPTB don't give a rat's ass about what I do. BUT - I am not doing it in a group, nor am I doing it in a flamboyantly public manner, as the Transition Town movement is obviously public. I tend to think change is more likely if we scoot along under the radar, which you can't do with a Movement.

When should we expect the Transition Movement to be crushed or co-opted by TPTB? Is this a valid concern, or is it something we shouldn't be worrying about?

[Ludi]

I have nothing against them and in fact see them as step in the right direction.

Then what are you guys arguing about????

[Revi]

I guess I'm wondering what the likelihood is the military/industrial complex will crush the Transition Town movement. I know it is a popular idea that TPTB give a poop what we do, are watching our every move, and lying in wait to stop us from living as we choose. So far, I haven't seen a lot of that personally, that is, I've never been stopped from doing anything I want to do. My conclusion is, TPTB don't give a rat's ass about what I do. BUT - I am not doing it in a group, nor am I doing it in a flamboyantly public manner, as the Transition Town movement is obviously public. I tend to think change is more likely if we scoot along under the radar, which you can't do with a Movement.

When should we expect the Transition Movement to be crushed or co-opted by TPTB? Is this a valid concern, or is it something we shouldn't be worrying about?

I don't think we have to worry about that kind of thing yet. We had one Transition Town celebrate a year since it's great unleashing.

They have been at it longer in England, but I would say that the movement is in its infancy and presents no threat to TPTB.

Maybe when we've been around a while, but that's when we build a bridge to local government.

This isn't supposed to take anything over, just get people ready for what's coming.

[Ludi]

Now, on the other hand, if we were to demand our land back from the likes of Archer Daniel Midland, Cargill, and the biofools crowd, etc. I imagine there would be a nasty response. But we are not comfortable going there are we?

I don't need land from them, so I don't have much of an opinion, personally. If folks want to buy back land from ADM, more power to them. Or "demand it back" whatever.

Maybe start another thread on that subject, it is off-topic here. I'll try to generate an opinion. It's not a matter of being comfortable or uncomfortable about the subject, for me, anyway. If you aren't comfortable with it, maybe you shouldn't bring it up? Or who do you mean by "we"?

[Ludi]

Maybe when we've been around a while, but that's when we build a bridge to local government.

This isn't supposed to take anything over, just get people ready for what's coming.

It seems it might bother the Chamber of Commerce if it poses any threat whatsoever to the status quo and bringing growth and business to the town.

Seems like growth would be antithetical to the transition movement, if towns hope to be self-sustaining at all. Chamber of Clowns seem to always want to grow towns beyond the carrying capacity of the locale.

[Ludi]

Another thread? You asking me to leave. Come on. I am the only one on this forum who has actually put his money, mouth, time, energy, and heart into this so-called transition town movement. I know more, care more and have studied and learned more about it than anyone at Peakoil and if you don't like the truth then that is your problem. But I don't like being invited to leave.

Don't be an ass.

Interested to know what truth you think I don't like. We can talk about anything you want. Go for it.

[Ludi]

You don't need land from them? I thought your little piece of hardscrabble texas hard-pan was too tough to farm.

I'm not interested in "farming."

There's no ADM land anywhere near here that I know of. I have no interest in moving.

Incidentally, my land isn't "hard pan." Ask Pops about my land.

[mos6507]

I believe people will be taken care probably decently (even with a complete financial crash.)

Oh, I guess we have nothing to worry about, then. Thanks for the assurances.

[Ludi]

Ludi. I am not am not just an ass. I have body parts and a heart and I can love

Well good, then stop acting like just an ass.

Seriously, I guess I can understand being annoyed that I suggested a separate thread for a relevant topic, but you are making jerk-like comments - that I "don't like" some "truth" you're promoting. When you know for a fact I have agreed with you for years.

[mos6507]

I am the only one on this forum who has actually put his money, mouth, time, energy, and heart into this so-called transition town movement. I know more, care more and have studied and learned more about it than anyone at Peakoil and if you don't like the truth then that is your problem. But I don't like being invited to leave.

If you want to avoid being called a troll, then do something more useful than brag about your credentials and dis people who are trying to make a difference.

[Ludi]

Revi, what steps is your town taking to make sure there's enough land and resources to support the population, and is no-growth part of the Transition Town movement? Or do some of the towns actually need growth to become viable communities in the future (for instance, current population mostly old)?

[Revi]

We haven't grown much in the past 10 years. Our population actually is down a bit from the early 2000's. Maine is a tough place to be and people move out as fast as they move in.

We have a bunch of young farmers who have moved in, however. They have bought old farms and gotten them back into shape. The farmer's market is growing and people are working on reviving the downtown area of our town.

As a part of the town's comprehensive plan we call the area north of town (with the good land) an agricultural area, and reccomended conservation of it.

Some of those young farmers are involved with the Transition movement, so I hope we get some kind of a designation for that part of the town.

Here's one of them and their website:

http://www.onedropfarm.com/

Here's another young farmer that has a fantastic farm and a beautiful website:

http://www.grasslandorganicfarm.com/

[mos6507]

BTW, Richard Heinberg, in an article I'm sure everone has already read, is also retreating from his top-down emphasis.

Nevertheless, this writer is finally convinced that, with whatever energies for positive change may be available to us, we are likely to accomplish the most by working locally and on a small scale, while sharing information about successes and failures as widely as possible.

You see a pattern here?

[Ludi]

We have a bunch of young farmers who have moved in, however. They have bought old farms and gotten them back into shape. The farmer's market is growing and people are working on reviving the downtown area of our town.

That's so fantastic!

I used to be encouraged by our neighbors up the road who are trying a small mixed dairy farm, but they have overstocked their land by about 10x carrying capacity, and it's becoming a desert. This whole area used to be dairies, but the farms were much larger than their place (they have about 30 acres, I think, and are stocked for about 150 - 200 acres )