THE "Telling Others About Peak Oil" Thread pt 2 (merged)

[some_guy282]

Right now no one wants to hear about Peak Oil. They've got their hands over their ears chanting

"LA LA LA LA LA! LA LA LA LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! LA LA LA LA! LA LA LA LA! TECHNOLOGY LA LA LA LA! LA LA LA LA! SOLAR! LA LA LA LA LA! LA LA LA LA! HYBRIDS! LA LA LA LA! LA LA LA LA! CONSERVATION!! LA LA LA LA LA! LA LA LA LA! ABIOTIC OIL!"


Etc. etc. When it's all said and done, they'll be absolutely furious when they ask why no one warned them.

[erl]

I'm going to echo what KillJoy said.

Like many other things, the message is out there. Anyone who fails to pay attention is probably deliberately turning a blind eye.

It's like seeing the tidal wave approach, but then simply continuing to pick up the pretty sea shells that dot the beach.

...

How are you KillJoy? I think I can beat you. I learned of Peak Oil (wasn't called that, though) in 1978 in a course called "Impact of Technology on Society."

Take care.

[killJOY]

How are you KillJoy? I think I can beat you. I learned of Peak Oil (wasn't called that, though) in 1978 in a course called "Impact of Technology on Society."

Take care.

I'm fine, thanks erl. HOPELESS, but fine. My garden is magnificent. We plan to survive the winter.

Yeah, you have me beat. I consider myself very lucky to have had that teacher back in the 80s.

By the way, the professor who taught "Geology and Human Affairs" was Mark J. Camp, not professor Hatfield, who actually taught me Historical Geology.

I never pursued the geology major, but those two profs had a lasting impact on my outlook.

Sorry for the threadjack.

[grampybone]

People believe what they want to believe. It's like talking to a brick wall sometimes. I have given up. All that matters now is me and mine. Screw the rest.

[cipi604]

Interfector, I've received again the message "go to a psychiatric control, cause you are crazy", friday, regarding peak-oil story. I was almost fired twice cause I say it loud and clear.

Since then I started to ask myself, is it good for me or for them to tell what I think will happen? The answer is NO.

It's not that they don't understand the logic of this situation, it's the fact that psychologically speaking ... their minds got used to the 'reality', just like a drug addict.

So take my advice, if you don't want to lose your job, your friends, your family and maybe, just maybe ... your mind ,

SHUT UP!

[pedalling_faster]

I mean, big change needs to happen to the way we live right now. We've probably already shot our chance to avert a catastrophe but that doesn't mean we can't start to make some of the hard choices and sacrifices that need to be made before the inevitable crunch.

What would be your suggestions to get the message out there?

i wouldn't expend too much energy on it. it depends a little on your age. i wouldn't talk about it too much in a corporate work environment, maybe something about setting up a van pool to reduce commute costs.

i emailed my brother a copy of the Hirsch Report. it made him angry. a lot of people around here have had similar experiences.

yes, the amount of change needed to achieve a goal like the 350.org (reducing atmospheric CO2 to 350 parts per million) is enormous. (CO2 being the product of fossil fuel burning, i figure it's related).

[catbox]

I saw it coming, my neighbor refuses to see it.
I have made preps, he hasn't.
Have I tried to inform friends and family? Yup.
Do I try anymore? Nope.
Tired of trying.
Fin.

Happy PO everybody!

catbox

[wisconsin_cur]

Header_Rack is right.

People don't want to hear it. They will not be grateful; rather, they will resent the information.

And if you've made preparations, they may well remember you all too well.

I hope the chorus of consensus does not have you down, but I have to agree.

I have a co-worker who, over the last year I have spent countless hours discussing the issue with him. He is a smart guy and he gets it. Just as he starts to come to some conclusions, just as he is at the point where he might have to conceivable do something he says, "I would rather believe..."

that is the farthest i have ever gotten... at some point the changes the facts seem to call for are just too great. They would fall back on what they "would rather believe."

People, as a group, are conservative by nature, they can only take so much change at any given time and we do not have the time that we need to slowly change our collective behavior.

So that is where we are, whether we like it or not. The ball is in your court, how will you tackle the future? What preparations will you make?

[Jenab6]

I've gone through three phases upon relearning about peak oil: First, I thought the truth was so urgent and obvious that once word got out rapid changes could be made with an alert public. This phase lasted about five minutes. Second, I thought that once the crap started hitting the fan--once oil production went flat and oil prices reached a certain level--then people would do an about-face and initiate a crash program to adapt to post-peak life. I've even given up this view. Third, I now believe that the more peak oil predictions come true, the more peak oil explanations will be resisted. What I mean to say is, the die has been cast: even when the peakers are right, they will be denied. And the more we're right, the less we'll be believed.

It's the same with the subjects of racial differences and the hazards of race mixing. And some people who can get their minds about Peak Oil cannot do so about race, and vice versa, perhaps because of lifelong psychological conditioning on one subject or the other.

[patience]

Right. It's, "I don't want to hear about it", (verbatim, from a guy who knows it is true; he said so), then if we persist, it is either ostracize, or other forms of kill the messenger.

I've been trying since 1974, when a friend and I (enduring the OPEC-induced car industry troubles), looked up info in Marks' Mechanical Engineering Handbook, a late 1960's edition, and found that we would not see retirement from GM due to failing oil supply.

No, they just refuse to hear it. For the same reason that prosecutors have an easy time of getting a high % conviction rate. Because to believe that the "good guys" could be wrong, or corrupt, is too terrifying. Coming to understand PO and all its' attendant implications means that all you were ever taught about how to live is wrong, and your way of life is over. It's a real kick in the head.

My efforts are going toward trying to teach people some things about how to cope. That's what they seem to want today. How do I stop the pain I feel RIGHT NOW?

edit: Like chess pawns, they can only move one square at a time. Even a two-square "en passant" requires rare circumstance.

[killJOY]

It's the same with the subjects of racial differences and the hazards of race mixing.

No, it isn't.

And as someone from a long line of "mixed" races, I probably know more about it than you.

[VMarcHart]

What would be your suggestions to get the message out there?

Keep it up, Interfector. It might be a way. For example, if Simon Cowell turns his declining American Idol into a PO reality show...

[JPL]

With deference to the above posters (grin) you 'can' get the message across but you need to it with actions rather than words.

A couple of years ago I started a campaign to get my friends growing organic veg and the main way I had a break-through was by unloading surplus stuff onto them rather than - as I used to mutter - 'giving it to the damn chickens'.

I had a rather 'fun' breakthrough moment when a couple of my city-based pals went all quivvery-lipped one summer when I went windmilling through the veg plot throwing 'expensive' stuff like bulb fennel, organic tomatoes & corinder behind me in great bunches and muttering that they could take what they wanted, too damn much of the stuff...

Life is not always fair & equitable but it doesn't mean that we can't make the best of what we have as individuals. The best way to liberate a slave is not to take off his or her chains, but to take off your own first - and then wait for the others to do the same.

JP

[Homesteader]

With deference to the above posters (grin) you 'can' get the message across but you need to it with actions rather than words.

A couple of years ago I started a campaign to get my friends growing organic veg and the main way I had a break-through was by unloading surplus stuff onto them rather than - as I used to mutter - 'giving it to the damn chickens'.

I had a rather 'fun' breakthrough moment when a couple of my city-based pals went all quivvery-lipped one summer when I went windmilling through the veg plot throwing 'expensive' stuff like bulb fennel, organic tomatoes & corinder behind me in great bunches and muttering that they could take what they wanted, too damn much of the stuff...

Life is not always fair & equitable but it doesn't mean that we can't make the best of what we have as individuals. The best way to liberate a slave is not to take off his or her chains, but to take off your own first - and then wait for the others to do the same.

JP

So the happy ending is your quivvery-lipped city pals started an organic farmers market which led magically to a relocalize/powerdown movement? I'm not getting the connection between your giving away vegetables and their "come to Jesus" peak oil moment.

[JPL]

My efforts are going toward trying to teach people some things about how to cope. That's what they seem to want today. How do I stop the pain I feel RIGHT NOW?

edit: Like chess pawns, they can only move one square at a time. Even a two-square "en passant" requires rare circumstance.

This is so-not correct. One of the things I feel positive about right now is that PO (to date, even) has done more for the green movement that 30 years of careful campaigning. Think about it.

Let me give an example. A couple of years ago we had a garden party - lots of people from lots of backgrounds. Later on, the conversation intense, so I gave 'em 'the talk'. Nothing held back; Hubbard, overpopulation, topsoil depletion, GW, the works.

Of course, I was then put on the spot, asked what I was doing about it? Well of course, that's a difficult question to answer (grin). But I showed them various little projects...

Two years on (strangely enough) I have lots of converts! Well, not me personally (I'm a lousy speaker) but the ideas have hit home. People are asking me about wood-heating, insulation, all the stuff I was talking about. Why - because I said two years ago the price of oil was about to go through the roof and this (yadda yadda) was why.

Now lots of people are listening - this is surely our moment. I can't be the only poster on PO.com that's had this experience???

JP

[JPL]

So the happy ending is your quivvery-lipped city pals started an organic farmers market which led magically to a relocalize/powerdown movement? I'm not getting the connection between your giving away vegetables and their "come to Jesus" peak oil moment.

As it happens, these two did have a sizeable garden which was largely lawn & shrubs. They went away, read some books, dug most of it over, and created an organic plot which I have helped them with ever since. They are now also PO aware and looking at ways of reducing their exposure to the future in many ways.

Of the three other couples we socialise with regularly, one is VERY PO aware & panicking but not gardening, one is in denial but also growing their own food, the final one is not panicking but has put in a home-power system & has bought horses.

I'm not bragging, I'm just saying it can be done. My friends are all ordinary Joes (but also very genuine people).

JP

[Homesteader]

So the happy ending is your quivvery-lipped city pals started an organic farmers market which led magically to a relocalize/powerdown movement? I'm not getting the connection between your giving away vegetables and their "come to Jesus" peak oil moment.

As it happens, these two did have a sizeable garden which was largely lawn & shrubs. They went away, read some books, dug most of it over, and created an organic plot which I have helped them with ever since. They are now also PO aware and looking at ways of reducing their exposure to the future in many ways.

Of the three other couples we socialise with regularly, one is VERY PO aware & panicking but not gardening, one is in denial but also growing their own food, the final one is not panicking but has put in a home-power system & has bought horses.

I'm not bragging, I'm just saying it can be done. My friends are all ordinary Joes (but also very genuine people).

JP

In the words of Paul Harvey thanks "for the rest of the story".

[Ardalla]

The last few weeks I have seen increased discusion of energy issues at work. Beyond the usual sell your mcmansion and 3 suvs, I don't have anything constructive to say. I tell them it's over ... the party's over; just sit back, watch and react the best you can. They don't believe me of course. One guy is planning on getting a kit to run his car on water. I tell him it won't work. He says he knows people that have it and it will work. Go for it then. He's also spending $5000 for a dog fence in his yard and $4000 for granite countertops in his new house that already has perfectly fine, brand new countertops. He'll just throw the old ones away.

This last Friday I tried to put some thoughts on paper regarding a 5 year plan that might put us on the road to sustainability with declining oil production. I came up with 6 essential items before I realized that not one had a bloody chance in hell of happening.

We're not going to reduce world population. We're not going to restrict vehicle usage for passenger cars getting less than 50mpg. We're not going to move people out of large cities and into small towns that can be supported mostly by the surrounding agricultural region. We're not going to start moving away from globalism, an inefficient transportation system and rampant consumerism until the horse is dead and we can't flog it back to life.

Just today, Obama headline says he's going to come down hard on oil speculators. The guy's clueless. I'm surprised Simmons hasn't changed his message to find yourself a strong storm shelter. He's still out there fighting. Gotta hand it to him. He's a plugger.

[DantesPeak]

The last few weeks I have seen increased discusion of energy issues at work. Beyond the usual sell your mcmansion and 3 suvs, I don't have anything constructive to say. I tell them it's over ... the party's over; just sit back, watch and react the best you can. They don't believe me of course. One guy is planning on getting a kit to run his car on water. I tell him it won't work. He says he knows people that have it and it will work. Go for it then. He's also spending $5000 for a dog fence in his yard and $4000 for granite countertops in his new house that already has perfectly fine, brand new countertops. He'll just throw the old ones away.

This last Friday I tried to put some thoughts on paper regarding a 5 year plan that might put us on the road to sustainability with declining oil production. I came up with 6 essential items before I realized that not one had a bloody chance in hell of happening.

We're not going to reduce world population. We're not going to restrict vehicle usage for passenger cars getting less than 50mpg. We're not going to move people out of large cities and into small towns that can be supported mostly by the surrounding agricultural region. We're not going to start moving away from globalism, an inefficient transportation system and rampant consumerism until the horse is dead and we can't flog it back to life.

Just today, Obama headline says he's going to come down hard on oil speculators. The guy's clueless. I'm surprised Simmons hasn't changed his message to find yourself a strong storm shelter. He's still out there fighting. Gotta hand it to him. He's a plugger.

Yeah it's crazy out there.

We may be as little as weeks away from gasoline and/or diesel shortages and all people are worried about now is the price of gasoline. Sorry, when you suddenly have no gasoline the price will seem a lot less important.

I'm hoping the onset of more or less permenent shortages this year or next will raise PO awareness, but it's also possible that oil shortages will be blamed on a new mideast war, financial crisis, etc. It's even possible that the lack of any specific person/thing to blame will make people even more skeptical - because they are constantly being told the markets are being manipulated.

The word may get out only when people are ready to hear it.

[btu2012]

You don't. You let people around you find out on their own.

The denial at grassroots and political level will continue much longer that you expect.