THE T. Boone Pickens Thread (merged)

[DriveElectric]

When discussing PO, if we only listen to people who have no vested interest in the topic (oil business, books, etc) then there will be nobody to listen to. Matt Simmons (often cited here on this website) owns an investment bank that is heavily invested in energy.

[AirlinePilot]

"Your naivete on this issue, is none of my concern, but others should be protected from it"

Oh, touche'! Come on no need to be condescending about this stuff threadbear. I submit to you that Pickens is a lot less of a monster than you seem to portray. My father did some consulting work back during the late 60's and early 70's and worked directly for Pickens and got to know him fairly well. After talking with my dad about him I realise that he is a checkered figure and obviously has a colorful past. Even so he is a man of his word. He is intelligent and grasps things others just dont seem to get. These are my dad's observations and I trust his perspective.

Big Oil as you call it, isnt squeezing anything out of anybody, they are making money hand over fist because we are consuming this stuff like crack addicts! The demand is so huge its almost impossible to NOT make a profit. Simple economics really. Tried to buy a Prius or any other hybrid lately? I guess those car companies are raping everyone who wants to get one of those too.

As others who are on this forum have said at some point you need to listen to the folks most people consider experts. Whether you agree with thier principles or not there is always good intel to be had by listening. Your posts here indicate to me your a conspiracy theorist type and while again I don't doubt this could be the biggest hoax perpetrated on mankind, I tend to doubt that due to the mountain of evidence which looms larger and larger all the time. Every time something bad happens it isn't because some government or corporation orchestrated it. I think we as a society today read far too much into many things, so much bogus speculation about everything it's absurd.

I think it's ok to agree to disagree about Pickens. I hear what he is saying, yeah it may be a huge manipulation but even then he will influence things to go however he wishes. You and I are not going to change that. I think the guy is actually trying to alert the industry in a way that he can benefit from, but which will also potentially help us in the long run.

What is in it for him if he precipitates a worldwide depression with his machinations? A guy like that just doesn't do this kind of stuff unless it's in some fictional novel. It's more likely he is trying to rattle our cages to wake up from the slumber. Thats my dads take on it anyway.

[threadbear]

His motivation for talking about Peak oil is irrelevant. He will either be right or wrong. The question is where is he putting his own money? If he doesn't follow his own advice, no-one else will. It would appear, if he is so rich, that he has been right many times.

I don't doubt he's onto something when it comes to peak oil. However, he along with other men of influence will affect the price of oil, just by encouraging others to think in the very worst case scenarios. His prescriptions aren't to encourage the general public to cut back on consumption, but to invest in stocks like Suncor.



"As others who are on this forum have said at some point you need to listen to the folks most people consider experts. Whether you agree with thier principles or not there is always good intel to be had by listening. Your posts here indicate to me your a conspiracy theorist type and while again I don't doubt this could be the biggest hoax perpetrated on mankind, I tend to doubt that due to the mountain of evidence which looms larger and larger all the time. Every time something bad happens it isn't because some government or corporation orchestrated it. I think we as a society today read far too much into many things, so much bogus speculation about everything it's absurd." Airline Pilot.

Talk about condescending. I will repeat that I think the oil companies are squeezing people, most people aren't invested in them, and if you think they don't conspire that will ultimately be your problem, not mine. You have repeated several times words to the effect that I don't believe in peak oil. As a matter of fact, I do. It's a geological conspiracy of amazing proportions.

And Pilot, because you make good money flying a plane, doesn't mean you're on the inside track of the power elite, so give it a break. If you don't think corporations conspire you're entitled to your thinking, but let's stick to the facts and avoid religious ideation.

[AirlinePilot]

Talk about condescending. I will repeat that I think the oil companies are squeezing people, most people aren't invested in them, and if you think they don't conspire that will ultimately be your problem, not mine. You have repeated several times words to the effect that I don't believe in peak oil. As a matter of fact, I do. It's a geological conspiracy of amazing proportions.

And Pilot, because you make good money flying a plane, doesn't mean you're on the inside track of the power elite, so give it a break. If you don't think corporations conspire you're entitled to your thinking, but let's stick to the facts and avoid religious ideation.

Ok I think you took that one totally out of context, No condescension was meant. I was just trying to amplify the fact that listening to both sides of the argument, no matter what it is can be enlightening. I apologise if you took it that way. I'm not sure I remember labeling you as not believing in Peak Oil, sorry if I did or implied it. I think we just see things a bit differently when it comes to things like Pickens, Big Oil, and whether or not it's a conspiracy. Sticking to the facts and leaving out the "ideation" is a fine idea.

I don't know where you are getting the feeling I think I'm part of some "power elite" . I am labor plain and simple, well compensated labor, but I dont have ANY delusions about being elite. I had some unique insight due to my dads past dealings with Mr Pickens, just thought I would share. I value my fathers advice and his take on things. He is a smart guy I can learn a lot from. There are always two sides to a story.

[threadbear]

AP, Pickens makes fine pickins, for people like me. I have a kind of gag reflex when it comes to the word "billionaire". I don't think anyone becomes a billionaire without being a slimeball, at least on some level. Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe I'll meet a billionaire who will surprise me one day.
I am kind of condescending sometimes. Imagine that--a highschool dropout communicating with the highly educated and putting them in their place. Talk about ego. Whooo boy.

[tdrive]

Maybe I'll meet a billionaire who will surprise me one day.

You talk like you have billionaires for breakfast.

No offence.

Cheers,

[tdrive]

I will repeat that I think the oil companies are squeezing people, most people aren't invested in them...

That's because people are letting themselves getting squeezed,
and if they are not invested in oil and instead spend all their
money (which they do not have) on a new car, six bedroom house
and 60 inch plasma TV, that's their undoing.
They deserve not just to be squeezed, but turned into pulp.

Sorry for getting too excited.

Cheers,

[eric_b]

(...)
Talk about condescending. I will repeat that I think the oil companies are squeezing people, most people aren't invested in them, and if you think they don't conspire that will ultimately be your problem, not mine. You have repeated several times words to the effect that I don't believe in peak oil. As a matter of fact, I do. It's a geological conspiracy of amazing proportions.
(...)

Testy, testy. A geological conspiracy? The very rocks are conspiring against
us, holding back all that oil

Care to elaborate on this conspiracy, our do you think the remaining oil
should not be priced according to supply and demand?

[frankthetank]

The oil companies are making money because people are willing to pay it ...like crack

If you don't like the price, no one is putting a gun to your head...walking/biking is an alternative (although it might not be practical)

This geologic conspiracy arouse my suspicion...so you think there might be large quanitities of oil left that were not be told about? its not out of the realm of possibility...i find it highly doubtful, however.

Slimeball billionaires? there are rotten eggs in every basket

[RiverRat]

If you think that you just mention hydrocarbon
depletion to people and they slap their foreheads and start riding
bycicles to work and install solars and windmills, you are in for a
big surprise. The only way to wake people up is to hit them where it
hurst most - IN THE POCKET!

yep ... we currently are experiencing only a 'primer'.

People are slowly getting indoctrinated to the future. Human nature resists change. It takes a concrete event to change perception and action (ie ... mild heart attack from big mac's, spot on a lung from cigs, car crash from always driving recklessly, $2.40 gas, etc)

[threadbear]

(...)
Talk about condescending. I will repeat that I think the oil companies are squeezing people, most people aren't invested in them, and if you think they don't conspire that will ultimately be your problem, not mine. You have repeated several times words to the effect that I don't believe in peak oil. As a matter of fact, I do. It's a geological conspiracy of amazing proportions.
(...)

Testy, testy. A geological conspiracy? The very rocks are conspiring against
us, holding back all that oil

Care to elaborate on this conspiracy, our do you think the remaining oil
should not be priced according to supply and demand?

Oil is a viscous and a vicious substance that can make itself available, if it wants, or slither back to the core of the earth, if it so desires. It's conscious, and has a nasty streak. Fossils can be very fiesty.

TDrive, You needn't apologize for getting too excited. Just don't forget to change your pants.

Your post makes the general population sound as if they're living the Robin Leech, Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous dream, when many of them are struggling to pay their medical insurance, and not doing particularly well.

You can't have billionaires for breakfast, they leave a very unpleasant aftertaste. Their grandchildren can be consumed with a side order of toast and a shot of pepto bismol, though.

[tdrive]

Your post makes the general population sound as if they're living the Robin Leech, Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous dream, when many of them are struggling to pay their medical insurance, and not doing particularly well.

Each and every society has its alphas and omegas.
It's inevitable, it's called natural selection.
Someone has to peck the someone else. What's oyur point?

Cheers,

[threadbear]

I will repeat that I think the oil companies are squeezing people, most people aren't invested in them...

That's because people are letting themselves getting squeezed,
and if they are not invested in oil and instead spend all their
money (which they do not have) on a new car, six bedroom house
and 60 inch plasma TV, that's their undoing.
They deserve not just to be squeezed, but turned into pulp.

Sorry for getting too excited.

Cheers,

YOu made a general statement about "people" that I don't believe to be true. Most people aren't living this way--that's my point. If you are invested in oil stock, you are participating in price fixing operations that hurt those struggling, far more than those you describe. If you want to invest in oil, do it with your eyes wide open and understand you're getting your own hands dirty.

[tdrive]

If you are invested in oil stock, you are participating in price fixing operations that hurt those struggling, far more than those you describe. If you want to invest in oil, do it with your eyes wide open and understand you're getting your own hands dirty.

Long time ago, in the early 1800's in England there was this
group of people, called LUDDITE (btw because their head honcho
was a dude called Ned Lud, not because of the latin word LUDIT).
You want to be an alpha or omega? The choice of your pecking order
is entirely up to you when it comes to humans. Ask any evolutionary
biologist.

My hands are durty because I work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Cheers,

[Carrie]

I just posted another article about his views on PO. He was asked straight out if he agreed with Simmons' view that the Saudi fields are on the verge of decline, and he said he did. He also said something that gave me a chill:

"The majors, they talk about plenty of oil and that they can produce more, but if you look at ExxonMobile, ChevronTexaco, BP (British Petroleum), all the production (is) going down every year. They don't replace and they don't add to production, but they say there's plenty of oil around.

"Now why would they say that? One of the chief economists with one of the major oil companies... I was at a conference where he was... we were talking and I asked, why do they say that? And he said, can you imagine what would happen if one of these major oil company's CEO's got up and made a speech and he said, 'We're running out of oil'? I said there'd be panic and he said, 'That's right. They're not going to make the statement. They're going to say there's plenty of oil around"

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section ... toryid=846

[FatherOfTwo]

I just posted another article about his views on PO. He was asked straight out if he agreed with Simmons' view that the Saudi fields are on the verge of decline, and he said he did. He also said something that gave me a chill:

"The majors, they talk about plenty of oil and that they can produce more, but if you look at ExxonMobile, ChevronTexaco, BP (British Petroleum), all the production (is) going down every year. They don't replace and they don't add to production, but they say there's plenty of oil around.

"Now why would they say that? One of the chief economists with one of the major oil companies... I was at a conference where he was... we were talking and I asked, why do they say that? And he said, can you imagine what would happen if one of these major oil company's CEO's got up and made a speech and he said, 'We're running out of oil'? I said there'd be panic and he said, 'That's right. They're not going to make the statement. They're going to say there's plenty of oil around"

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section ... toryid=846

A chill is an understatement. Unless he's nuts and gets his kicks out of making stories up (which is extremely unlikely in my opinion) well, what can you say but Oh F*&k!

[pstarr]

I just posted another article about his views on PO. He was asked straight out if he agreed with Simmons' view that the Saudi fields are on the verge of decline, and he said he did. He also said something that gave me a chill:

"The majors, they talk about plenty of oil and that they can produce more, but if you look at ExxonMobile, ChevronTexaco, BP (British Petroleum), all the production (is) going down every year. They don't replace and they don't add to production, but they say there's plenty of oil around.

"Now why would they say that? One of the chief economists with one of the major oil companies... I was at a conference where he was... we were talking and I asked, why do they say that? And he said, can you imagine what would happen if one of these major oil company's CEO's got up and made a speech and he said, 'We're running out of oil'? I said there'd be panic and he said, 'That's right. They're not going to make the statement. They're going to say there's plenty of oil around"

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section ... toryid=846

That comment scared the shit out of me for a few minutes. Like I was going to wake up in a different world. I'm better now thanks.

pete

[FatherOfTwo]

That comment scared the shit out of me for a few minutes. Like I was going to wake up in a different world. I'm better now thanks.

pete

The magnitude of the problem is really dumbfounding, isn't it? Even though I'm well aware of the problem, and have been for long enough that I now consider it be part of my "fabric", comments like that still slap me across the face and punch me in the stomach... having a sneak peek at the future can be all too surreal.

[threadbear]

Before you guys rush out and change your pants, please be cautious. This is EXACTLY how a corporation would behave if they wanted to simply maximize profit. Peak oil is a reality --and a smokescreen. The two aren't mutually exclusive. The problem, though urgent, is made worse by consciously constraining supply.

The situation is roughly analgous to the way "Big Electricity" treated California just after Bush's win, a few years back. It was a low snow pack year so there was a genuine problem with supply. The producers responded by further constraining supply.

Peak oil is real geological problem. It's also a corporate ethics problem. If my estimation is correct, oil will be more expensive, but shouldn't go above 65.00 per barrel (unless the dollar plummets) until real geological crisis time, which could be next year. It could also be ten years away.

[JBinKC]

First thing I don't believe T Boone is a member of the Forbes 400.

I respect T Boone but he made a timing mistake on natural gas as he overleveraged Mesa Petroleum by buying up most of the Hugoton field in the mid 80s on a bet that natural gas prices would rise. Unfortunately, for him the cash flow couldn't keep up with the huge debt so he lost a big chunk of the property and a sizble chunk of his net worth.

As for his comments I respect the long term intentions as I do believe within a decade's time we will see a peak but I am the believer that the huge spread in light and heavy crudes indicate we are not at a supply juggernaut quite yet.