[onlooker]

Oh and one more thing for all of you who see the hypocrite angle, yes I in fact do not complain about what my life has been like here in the US before and now. Just the reality of the world that so many have had to live with so little amid dangerous, unsanitary/unhealthy and generally unpleasant conditions. So, I am okay being called a hypocrite. I rather that than being called ignorant or a liar. However, I think we are now beginning to find out that the elites do not have our best interests in mind.

[Cid_Yama]

KJ, you clearly lack the education, the knowledge, and the understanding to know of what you speak.

It could just be ignorance, definitely indoctrination, and apparently a lack of critical thinking skills. When you are presented with the proof that you are wrong, you just plug ahead as if nothing was said.

Willful ignorance is not worth the time or effort to correct.

You display it nearly every time you post.

Both Hitler and Mussolini were rabid anti-communists. They were the first ones Hitler threw into the concentration camps.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

link

The above quote is an abbreviated version. Historically, it was the Communists first, then the Social-Democrats, then the Trade Unionists.

It most certainly was not leftists tossing Socialists and Trade Unionists in concentration camps.

Good God man. Educate yourself. You're making a fool of yourself whether you recognize it or not.

[Newfie]

From Wiki....

Fascism

(Photo caption)
Benito Mussolini (left) and Adolf Hitler (right), two Fascist leaders. Hitler's Nazism, however, is sometimes considered independent of Fascism.
Fascism is a form of government, in which the country is considered more important than any one person, group, liberty, or provision.

A country under this kind of government is usually run by a person called a leader, who has the right of total control over the government and people.[1](end photo caption)

Fascist leadership might also be similar to an oligarchy, such as in Italy where the fascist party was ruled by its "grand council" from 1922 until the end of World War Two.[2]

Fascism appeared in Europe before World War II because many people thought that democracy was weak and full of moral perversions, that multiparty capitalism was too materialistic and unfair to the people, while communism, although unifying and fair, did not care about the needs of the nation and hampered business initiative.

Fascism was supposed to be the answer for that need, with national unity and solidarity instead of the divisions of class struggle and party politics. Liberals and believers in democracy generally considers fascism and communism as two facets of totalitarianism, and that they are unified by the urge to control everything and allow no freedom. But, believers in Marxism-Leninism think that capitalism either creates or uses fascism as a tool to destroy the workers' movements and secure rule by the upper classes if it is challenged. It does so by appealing to the people and to their most primitive needs, while actually pursuing the interests of the already rich.

[MonteQuest]

Whoeee! Some wheels are off the trolley in this thread. Don't mind me, just lurking.

[KaiserJeep]

Cid, you have one of the more popular definitions of Fascism, the one taught by Marxist/Fascist professors in every college History class I ever took. The one written about all over the Internet by people who never questioned what they were taught.

Note also that when I minored in History and Economics at university, I already had more work experience than the majority of such professors, I had already run a business, and I knew the fallacies of Marx's theories. I also learned that to get a decent grade I had to parrot the prof's delusions in that regard. Which made me conscious of how we had fundamentally failed to give a decent education to the majority of my fellow students.

I have since then been a student of History, and a member of the Nantucket Historical Association for 38 years, I give lectures on the development of the US emancipation movement amongst the Quaker population of New England, and the history of the "other oil industry", the 18th and 19th century trade in whale oil. I dabble also in the last phase of the Industrial Revolution in the early 20th century, but there are a few here at PO.com I defer to for the period - and you are not one of the three I am thinking of.

The identification of Fascism and right wing fanaticism is shallow and incomplete. The Nazi's were Fascists, Racists, Anti-Semites, Nationalists, Expansionists, etc. The followers of Stalin were Marxists, Fascists, Racists, Anti-Semites, Nationalists, Expansionists, etc. The followers of Benito Mussolini and Tôjô Hideki and Mao Tse Tung can also be described using a list of descriptors that have more in common than in difference. The descriptor "Fascist" will be found in all, because Fascism is the most popular form of a broader definition of government called Totalitarianism. The Fascists are "militant Totalitarians". The Scandihoovian countries - and the good 'ol US of A under Barack Obama, are "progressive Totalitarians", ready to enforce "correct" human behaviors and suppress "incorrect" behaviors via repressive laws, public shamings, political correctness, the politician's "bully pulpit", and attacks by the MSM. When that doesn't work, the US fascists try selective prosecution by the Attorney General and States Attorneys, FBI and NSA harassment, etc. I firmly believe that one day if we let them remain unchecked, our "progressives" will make as much progress as did the Nazi's using much the same tactics.

If you don't believe you live in a Fascist state, and you want to disprove my assertion, then I invite you to get a classic wooden soap box and a bullhorn, stand on an urban street corner, and advocate the repression of people of color, using the "n" word and every other racist epithet that comes to mind. Tell them your real thoughts about gun control, national/state/local politics, and any other topic you want to use, as long as you hurl the "n" word every minute or so.

I believe that you will be arrested within 10 minutes, if the crowd doesn't stomp you to death before the police arrive.

If you lack the courage to do that, the try the equivalent on the Internet. On any of the sites you frequent including PO.com, use the "n" word repeatedly, and watch how quickly you are banned, and then wait for the FBI to knock on your door.

Look, Fascism is just a flavor or style of government, and Fascists are people who advocate changing the beliefs and behaviors of others, using the various legislative and police powers of government, and in "progressive Fascism", the compliant and cooperative media. Fascists can find fertile soil and grow under Socialism, Democracy, Marxism, Communism, or Monarchism, and any other "ism" you want to invent.

PO.com is positively riddled with Fascists - one of my main amusements is tweaking them regularly. The defining characteristic of a Fascist is the simple desire to force others to conform, using the powers of government. Which is why I can confidently say that both major parties in the USA are Fascist, but the most acute case is the Democratic Party, and the two biggest Fascists we have had recently are FDR and Obama.

Now if you are still following the discussion, and understanding same, ask yourself if YOU are a Fascist. Are you sure? Ever advocated any new environmental legislation, the selective enforcement of laws, or the redistribution of wealth for "good reasons"? Ever felt the desire to expand any aspect of government for any purpose?

Well, then you are certainly not a Classical Liberal, the antithesis of a Fascist.

[Cog]

One only has to read the "Should climate change deniers be arrested" thread to know that fascist view points are alive and well at Peak Oil.

And thanks to KJ above for his excellent summation of the fascism of the left in America.

[Keith_McClary]

...

Your definition of fascism would seem to apply to all governments. Can you give any examples of non-fascist governments in the world today?

"When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

[Cid_Yama]

Blah, blah, blah. Our two biggest brown shirts weighing in on how THEY aren't the fascists, everyone else is.

And complaining how they aren't able to practice their hate openly, that any rules or laws preventing them from doing so are indicators of Fascism.

Grow up.

[Lore]

Fascism comes from those that would prevent me from being one.

[Cid_Yama]

Between the ages of 2 and 4, children learn there are rules, and that some behaviors are inappropriate. This allows them to interact socially with others.

What happened to these guys that they are still throwing tantrums about this as adults?

[onlooker]

I propose the most general definition of Fascism "a person, people or state of mind that does not tolerate dissension or opposition"

[KaiserJeep]

Between the ages of 2 and 4, children learn there are rules, and that some behaviors are inappropriate. This allows them to interact socially with others.

What happened to these guys that they are still throwing tantrums about this as adults?

I did learn how to behave as a kid, I had a very firm Mother. A better question is why do so many nominal adults on PO.com want to change the beliefs, behaviors, and lifestyles of other people? Answer: They cannot resist their inner Fascist.

Classical Liberalism's 8th principle is toleration:

Eight: Toleration. Toleration is the belief that one should not interfere with things of which one disapproves. Toleration does not mean that you allow people to do things because you agree with it, because you think it's a good thing, it's a question of having certain moral principles, i.e. I think this action is wrong, but I will not try enforce my opinions (example) through government to stop the things that I disapprove of. A classic case of that for classical liberals is free speech, people should be allowed to say things of which we strongly disapprove. We are tolerating things even though we dislike and disapprove it.

I will stand for any amount of talk, but the moment that you start advocating new laws, new regulation of business, new intrusions into private lives, that is the moment I start to think longingly that the world would be a better place without you in it. Because I hate Fascists.

Not that I would ever do anything, as long as I continue to live in a Constitutional Republic. But if the present government collapses, I will do my part to ensure peace and tranquility in the wilderness, by paying bounties for the scalps of "Progressives".

[SeaGypsy]

Considering the implausibility of your space donut gizmo theory & attitude to redistributive economics, who pays for the donuts?

[onlooker]

Considering the implausibility of your space donut gizmo theory & attitude to redistributive economics, who pays for the donuts?

Yep Kaiser every day the few rich are getting richer and the many poor are getting poorer so whose taxes exactly will pay for your Star trek musings. Oh yeah I remember you said only a few get to go up in space. That is a great solution but we dont really need that when Mother Nature will be able to do it just fine. Reduce population that is. You know what I say good riddance space faring elites and don't worry Karma will not follow you.

[KaiserJeep]

If you want to understand what I think will happen, just stream the movie Elysium. Matt Damon plays a working stiff on a polluted, garbage-ridden Earth, looking longingly upwards at the Elysium space station, which is occupied by the elites. It is an idyllic healthy and even beautiful environment, compared to the squalid planet below. Matt gets screwed by one of the elites and takes his revenge. That's all I will say for the convenience of those who have not seen the movie.

I believe that for every elite in the space habitat, there will be at least 10 working stiffs - techies, doctors, gardeners, farmers, and security toadies. Toiling as did we 20th Century working stiffs, for salary, medical, and retirement. Then on the lowest deck, nearest the gamma ray radiation, will be the same Skid Row you find in every city, full of lowlifes, criminals, and prostitutes. Check out the new SciFi series The Expanse for a glimpse of that world. (Funny - I read the first book in the series, was not impressed, and stopped - but I like the video version better than the book.)

Yes, there will be Fascists there, and "Progressives", although I think they are the same inside, they both feel an irresistible urge to mess with the lives of others.

[SeaGypsy]

Is there any more Fascist possibility than sending some ultra elite to dwell on a space donut costing trillions, so they may safely watch the earth go bye-byes? Anything more Eugenic than the suggestion the donut people eventually return to Earth to repopulate? Where does the hubris arise to believe the billions left to die will gleefully fork out for such à venture? Since they won't, who will, or who could? Why aren't they doing it already? Because the whole idea is hocum.

[onlooker]

How nice transferring all the problems of Earth to the Space Station. I am sure that Space Station will last a long time. I would say it would be more like the episode from the old Star Trek "The Cloud Minders" In which Kirk and Spock are caught up in a revolution on a planet where intellectuals and artists live on a utopian city in the sky while the rest of the population toils in mines on the barren surface below.

[SeaGypsy]

The whole idea is nothing more than utter bullshit fantasy Onlooker. KJ immersed himself in SciFi & got stuck, a bit like an old Ayahuasca shaman in the jungle gets stuck in the netherworld of totem spirits & such.

[onlooker]

yeah I know Sea, I am just going along with his bull.

[KaiserJeep]

Is there any more Fascist possibility than sending some ultra elite to dwell on a space donut costing trillions, so they may safely watch the earth go bye-byes? Anything more Eugenic than the suggestion the donut people eventually return to Earth to repopulate? Where does the hubris arise to believe the billions left to die will gleefully fork out for such à venture? Since they won't, who will, or who could? Why aren't they doing it already? Because the whole idea is hocum.

There are companies right now preparing to mine asteroids, and within the last decade space travel has gone from a massive government effort at astronomical prices to private launches that are only expensive, and will eventually be affordable by the middle class - no more than a decade away is my belief. For the first several decades, NEO and the Earth-Moon LaGrange points are where the action is.

You are free to believe or not believe. I intend to live out my remaining 1-3 decades on this declining planet, while doing everything I can do to encourage my grandkids to get the type of technical education needed to work in space. Assuming they are bright enough to go - anyone of mere average intelligence will probably not last long in space.

Consider it evolution in action, a Darwinian sort of the human species. Based on your attitude, your genes are likely to be culled - unless your teenaged kids rebel and go into space to spite you.

Edit: the rest of you are neatly putting yourselves into the genetic cull category. Fortunately, the human race will soon restart the idle train of evolution, recently stalled by "Progressive" thoughts.

It's perfectly OK. Your belief is not required, it will happen anyway.