[IgnoranceIsBliss]

Sounds like we are arguing over whether to get Chinese food or Mexican tonight, when none of us has any money in our wallets.

Who is gonna pay? Materials, installation, engineering, etc. How are you going to hold up traffic to put these in place?

[VMarcHart]

Sounds like we are arguing over whether to get Chinese food or Mexican tonight, when none of us has any money in our wallets.

Good analogy.

For me the underlying issue is even more important. The insatiable thirst for more energy.

[Gerben]

I can see a few problems.

Sand is harder than glas. If someone drives onto the glas with dirty tires, you will get scratches. That would mean:
- the self-cleaning effect would no longer be there
- more light will be reflected from the surface
I don't see how you can maintain the glas from normal wear. You cannot melt a new coating on it (glas melting temperature is too high), you'd have to replace the panels every few years and recycle them.
The texture on the glas could increase the maintenance sensitivity. Broken off pieces of glas will accellerate wear.

Solar panels are built-up out of layers of different materials. These materials have different thermal expansions. Add stress to it by driving onto the panels and you risk cracks.

Self-cleaning glas is afaik only used for normal windows. That means: flat surface and vertical. This glas won't be vertical and it will be textured. The self-cleaning won't work.

Hydrofobic (self-cleaning) glas will increase the formation of spray.

The texture on the glas could increase friction when driving on it.

Perhaps you could use it for emergency lanes and other road surfaces that are not used intensively. Worth testing.

[fletch_961]

All of that is already addressed in the site's FAQ or in a paper I linked earlier. The properties of glass don't seem to be the issue. The application seems to be where the idea will make it or break it since that is pretty new territory.

While I don't doubt the possibility of making a glass material that can fit the bill for road worthiness, the question is why bother? And at what cost?

Asphalt is made from local aggregate quarried from a gravel pit. This glass material will have to be engineered to exacting specifications. Any old sand won't do.

If they can make solar panels that can withstand 80k pounds of pressure with 15% efficiency that are 12 x 12 ft all for the low price of $7k then why don't me and you just slap them up on our roofs. That way we don't have to worry about Pstarr's Gremlin X breaking down on the freeway and causing a traffic jam that blocks the Sun from our power supply just as we are about to read one of his awe inspiring posts.

[vtsnowedin]

All of that is already addressed in the site's FAQ or in a paper I linked earlier. The properties of glass don't seem to be the issue. The application seems to be where the idea will make it or break it since that is pretty new territory.

While I don't doubt the possibility of making a glass material that can fit the bill for road worthiness, the question is why bother? And at what cost?

Asphalt is made from local aggregate quarried from a gravel pit. This glass material will have to be engineered to exacting specifications. Any old sand won't do.

If they can make solar panels that can withstand 80k pounds of pressure with 15% efficiency that are 12 x 12 ft all for the low price of $7k then why don't me and you just slap them up on our roofs. That way we don't have to worry about Pstarr's Gremlin X breaking down on the freeway and causing a traffic jam that blocks the Sun from our power supply just as we are about to read one of his awe inspiring posts.

Exactly!!!!

[Tanada]

If they are going to build 12x12 foot panels I would vastly prefer they be set vertically on each edge of the roadway to double as a noise barrier. Placing them vertically would also maximize the rain cleaning effect so they would have more clean surface at any randomly selected time.

[yesplease]

All of that is already addressed in the site's FAQ or in a paper I linked earlier. The properties of glass don't seem to be the issue. The application seems to be where the idea will make it or break it since that is pretty new territory.

The FAQ is vague and fluffy. Not sure why you dont think the properties glass an issue

Read the paper I linked earlier.

[yesplease]

While I don't doubt the possibility of making a glass material that can fit the bill for road worthiness, the question is why bother? And at what cost?

Asphalt is made from local aggregate quarried from a gravel pit. This glass material will have to be engineered to exacting specifications. Any old sand won't do.

If they can make solar panels that can withstand 80k pounds of pressure with 15% efficiency that are 12 x 12 ft all for the low price of $7k then why don't me and you just slap them up on our roofs.

It seems to me that aside from putting solar panels underneath it (more surface area than roofs?), the advantage is easier repairs/access and easier incorporation of transmission (data/power). This has been proposed for asphalt too, so it isn't anything particularly novel, but if for whatever reason it's easier with glass, which appears possible, then it might (It might not too, so far it's just an interesting proposal) have an advantage over asphalt for roads in terms of cost.

That way we don't have to worry about Pstarr's Gremlin X breaking down on the freeway and causing a traffic jam that blocks the Sun from our power supply just as we are about to read one of his awe inspiring posts.

I don't think traffic jams block enough sun on average to block any more sun than obstructions in people's backyards do, and if they do, then we just don't put the panels there (parking spaces).

[dorlomin]

]Read the paper I linked earlier.

Which post?

[yesplease]

This post.

[fletch_961]

It seems to me that aside from putting solar panels underneath it (more surface area than roofs?), the advantage is easier repairs/access and easier incorporation of transmission (data/power). This has been proposed for asphalt too, so it isn't anything particularly novel, but if for whatever reason it's easier with glass, which appears possible, then it might (It might not too, so far it's just an interesting proposal) have an advantage over asphalt for roads in terms of cost.

More than enough surface area on roof tops w/o over engineering the panels to withstand lorries.

How would repairs/access be easier? How would transmission of data and power be easier to incorporate?

Other than the solar panel part, what would be easier with glass than it is w/ asphalt? The micro-wave resurfacing thingy?

You have a long way to go to convince me that these glass surfaces would be cost competitive w/ asphalt. Not when the numbers given are 10x that of asphalt.

asphalt/concrete road costs

[yesplease]

The PV panels don't have to withstand large vehicles, just the glass/frame. Repairs/access/transmission would be easier for the same reason people have filed patents based on the same idea just w/ asphalt. Being able to easily manipulate the material, be it glass or asphalt, means we don't have to scrape/dig everything up for access to what's underneath, resurface, or even spend time patching cranks in the conventional sense. What numbers do you have on asphalt versus glass cost when we don't have any data on it? The solar panels are just a convenient use of space/surface area. What will make or break this in the future is if the glass aspect can be cost competitive w/ asphalt, and there isn't enough info yet (AFAIK) to say whether it will be or not.

[fletch_961]

I just posted a link w/ asphalt and concrete costs. I doesn't cost much more to run power lines parallel to the roads. I have not heard anyone from the power/phone companies complain that have trouble accessing their lines.

[SeaGypsy]

Let try the math again.
assume:
$1,000/pv killowatt
10 sq. ft/pv killowatt
65 killowatts/ electric car
car: 10 ft. long

Therefore:
650 sq.ft pv/ 10 ft./electric car
$65,000/ electric car/10 ft.

Assume: 10 cars on road.

Therefore:
$650,000 / 10 electric cars/10 ft.
6500 sq.ft pv/ 10 ft./10 electric cars at any given moment

Each mile would require $650,000*528=$343 million for the pv panels. Then there is the extra cost of the road surface to handle all the panels (343,200 extra sq. foot of roadage)

Sounds doable

Please post a link for the 10ft 1kw panels! I want 10 for my boat so it doesn't need sails. Thanks!

[SeaGypsy]

Let try the math again.
assume:
$1,000/pv killowatt
10 sq. ft/pv killowatt
65 killowatts/ electric car
car: 10 ft. long

Therefore:
650 sq.ft pv/ 10 ft./electric car
$65,000/ electric car/10 ft.

Assume: 10 cars on road.

Therefore:
$650,000 / 10 electric cars/10 ft.
6500 sq.ft pv/ 10 ft./10 electric cars at any given moment

Each mile would require $650,000*528=$343 million for the pv panels. Then there is the extra cost of the road surface to handle all the panels (343,200 extra sq. foot of roadage)

Sounds doable

Please post a link for the 10ft 1kw panels! I want 10 for my boat so it doesn't need sails. Thanks!

Yer right matey.

More like 50 sq. ft/1 kw innit? So 39 acres of panels per mile of road. Wide load welcome here

Bummer! I s'pose if dey was dat good We could jus paint de cars n boats wiv em? Spewen!

[yesplease]

I just posted a link w/ asphalt and concrete costs. I doesn't cost much more to run power lines parallel to the roads. I have not heard anyone from the power/phone companies complain that have trouble accessing their lines.

You need a link w/ the cost of the glass equivalent to determine whether or not it's worthwhile. As for transmission, that depends on the lines. There are certainly scuffles over imminent domain and buying up land for new transmission isn't exactly cheap even w/o the NIMBY blowback, but for existing lines it isn't an issue, except maybe from the POV of maintenance.