Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Silver & Gold Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Automatic Earth: all your gold and silver will be usele

Unread postby Revi » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 04:58:16

The elites haven't done a bad job at all, if they are trying to abscond with the wealth of this country. They are getting all the assets and then they'll decide what to do with them. QE2 is for them.

Read the latest posts in The Automatic Earth. I loved the Nominal Man.

I wish I could find it posted alone so I could have other people read it.

I think it's the best summation of our situation I've read yet.

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6820
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Automatic Earth: all your gold and silver will be usele

Unread postby Pretorian » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 05:28:34

gosh, that blog has 3 times more traffic than peakoil! will read it later
Pretorian
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4672
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Somewhere there

Re: Automatic Earth: all your gold and silver will be usele

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 06:03:14

Revi wrote:The elites haven't done a bad job at all, if they are trying to abscond with the wealth of this country. They are getting all the assets and then they'll decide what to do with them. QE2 is for them.


8) Abscond with them to Where exactly? This is a world wide financial collapse and there isn't another world to go to to spend their ill gotten gains.
I find it curious that many feel that the Elites or TPTB or "the people running things" Or "Corporate leadership" take your pick are trying to destroy the middle class and enslave the poor. The CEOs etc. need the middle class to be strong and vibrant and the poor to be not too poor because of all the names you can give to the people in these classes the most important one is Customer. Even a corporation that deals exclusively with the government needs a strong middle class in the long run as the middle class are the Taxpayersthat pay the bills so the government can place its next order.
If TPTB are destroying the middle class it certainly is not on purpose. How to stop them from doing it by accident while being mesmerized by quarterly balance sheets is another matter.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Anti-Matter
Anti-Matter
 
Posts: 8121
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Automatic Earth: all your gold and silver will be usele

Unread postby Revi » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 06:18:04

I agree with you VTsnowedin. It makes no sense to kill off the middle class, but I think it is happening. Those of us who are still afloat will be drained of what assets we have left paying for food, gas and oil eventually. That's why wood heat, gardens and electric cars are so important. Maple syrup is a commodity that will hold it's value as well. (and it's tasty)

Real estate is in trouble. The people who signed those mortgage papers were found out about thanks to a legal aid lawyer from Maine. As Maine goes, so goes the nation. It's a great story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/busin ... f=business
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6820
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Automatic Earth: all your gold and silver will be usele

Unread postby Pops » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 12:44:32

Personally I don't think there is a Cabal somewhere pulling the strings. There are people/institutions which benefit from this law, that loophole, a certain regulatory oversight (or oversight) and on and on. Just like there are regular people who benefited from RE appreciation and from the same lax standards everyone else did except the people left without a spot when the music stopped. Granted, the vested interests in a particular area will certainly work the angles as much as possible to their benefit.

But what it boils down to is, if you aren't careful you get gypped, it's just that simple.

I'm kind of a bleeding heart, I think gov needs to make sure everyone gets a fair shake, to some extent see to it that the powerful don't take advantage of the little guy and that we all have an equal ability to take it to the judge. But in the end it doesn't matter how many laws there are in place to protect you, if you don't understand what you are getting into, you have no business signing on the line. If you've never seen the stack of disclosures, endorsements, inspections and forms needed to complete a real estate deal in CA you may not understand the extent government goes to to try to keep people safe from themselves - and it just doesn't always work - obviously.

Back before the S&L Crisis people were taking out negative amortization, adjustable rate loans - the balance goes UP not DOWN for years but they were just happy as clams because they thought they'd never qualify for a home loan! Then a few years later they realized they couldn't make the payment and they owed more than the house was worth. It happened to several people we know.

And this time around too, I know at least two people who were in my opinion guilty of stupidity if not fraud but at the least were complicit in the whole scam. One person used the "stated Income" method, entering the amount he needed to earn (the amount the broker told him to) instead of what he did make; the other entered the amount of income he actually made on the application but when it came back from the broker the amount was higher and he signed anyway. Both are renters today.

It didn't take a big conspiracy to make the whole thing blow up (or crash dow) it just took a whole lot of people looking out for their own interests and wearing their rosy glasses 24/7. The pols had a good economy, stupid; the RE & finance & insurance industry was making a fortune; anybody involved in consumer goods from cars to pools to furniture to vacations was making big bucks; even the people who wound up with the shredded paper suspended their judgement just enough to believe that mortgages were 100% safe and housing prices would, for the first time in history, continue to rise forever - and of course the consumer was right at the center of the whole scam, willingly.

Actually, on second thought, maybe there is a cabal pulling the strings, it's all of us.
If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
-- Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 17642
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Automatic Earth: all your gold and silver will be usele

Unread postby patience » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 14:01:45

Oh, I think there's an obvious banker cabal that pretty well runs the world of finance in Europe and the US, but they aren't all-powerful, and they are finding that out now. Looks to me like they are getting pretty edsperate, too. :twisted: The bad part is, we little folk are going to bear the brunt of their screw ups. :(
Local fix-it guy..
User avatar
patience
Resting in Peace
 
Posts: 3180
Joined: Fri 04 Jan 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Automatic Earth: all your gold and silver will be usele

Unread postby Pops » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 15:05:13

By that logic though, there might well be a cabal of evil corn farmers forcing us to buy Sugar Pops and drink Pepsi and drive E85. This years corn crop is worth $80 billion to the farmer and we know the farmer only sees maybe 10% of the profits so say corn is an $800 billion racket, plenty of justification for a cabal there I'm thinkin... :lol:

Image
If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
-- Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 17642
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Automatic Earth: all your gold and silver will be usele

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 16 Oct 2010, 16:14:54

Pops wrote: we know the farmer only sees maybe 10% of the profits



That much? 8O 8O 8O
User avatar
Ludi
Master
Master
 
Posts: 18585
Joined: Mon 27 Dec 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Darkest Dumfukistan

Gold? Silver? Cotton!!!

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 20 Oct 2010, 02:52:58

Read this article about cotton and think for yourself: a ton of cotton is 3644 tons of water. There is an impending water crisis coming within a decade in Pakistan/india area, and all over the planet later on.
There is a 2-3 billion expense for the taxpayer to subsidize US cotton growers, otherwise it is unprofitable here and will take off pretty much 2/3ds of all cotton exports off the market.
cotton uses 16% of all world's pesticides and 25% of insecticides

http://ironrye.blogspot.com/2010/10/cot ... ypium.html
Pretorian
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4672
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Somewhere there

Re: Gold? Silver? Cotton!!!

Unread postby dolanbaker » Wed 20 Oct 2010, 04:35:29

OH NO! A return to nylon shirts. :evil:

But seriously, all intensivly farmed crops use large quantities of water & chemicals to enhance yields.
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
User avatar
dolanbaker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 3478
Joined: Wed 14 Apr 2010, 09:38:47
Location: Éire

Re: Gold? Silver? Cotton!!!

Unread postby pedalling_faster » Wed 20 Oct 2010, 05:48:54

when cotton was grown in the 1800's, did it require so much water ?

... though i guess that calculation would need to include the health & welfare of the slave workers who picked it & worked it. i.e. their water & food would become a cost of cotton production, the way petro-chemicals are now.

personally i think we did it best between the era of slavery & before the advent of globalization. back when Berkshire & Hathaway was literally a fabric mill.
http://www.LASIK-Flap.com/ ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery
User avatar
pedalling_faster
permanently banned
 
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat 10 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Gold? Silver? Cotton!!!

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 20 Oct 2010, 08:23:52

pedalling_faster wrote:when cotton was grown in the 1800's, did it require so much water ?

... though i guess that calculation would need to include the health & welfare of the slave workers who picked it & worked it. i.e. their water & food would become a cost of cotton production, the way petro-chemicals are now.



Don't forget the actual cost of the slaves, which was ridiculously high, along with their high amortization costs. You havent heard all that noise from the media that Cotton finally broke its record civil war price-- at least nominally?
What I find to be really amazing is 2-3 billion from the Fed just to give China a better price for their imports. China buys more cotton than the rest of the world combined, according to the article
Pretorian
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4672
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00
Location: Somewhere there

Re: Gold? Silver? Cotton!!!

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 24 Oct 2010, 11:23:16

Also, I think you need something like a thousand tons of water to produce on ton of grains.
http://sites.google.com/site/peakoilreports/
User avatar
ralfy
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 4699
Joined: Sat 28 Mar 2009, 10:36:38
Location: The Wasteland

When will you sell your Silver/Gold?

Unread postby thuja » Fri 15 Apr 2011, 21:08:49

Any of you metal bugs have a price point when you'll sell some or all your silver/gold? I mean the price of both have gone through the roof and especially silver lately. So any thoughts? For silver would you sell at 50, 75, 100$ an oz? And how bout gold? 2000$, 3000, 5000$ an oz? Or never?

Anyways, silverbug here wondering...
Last edited by thuja on Fri 15 Apr 2011, 21:24:05, edited 1 time in total.
No Soup for You!!
User avatar
thuja
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sat 15 Oct 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: When will you sell your Silver/Gold?

Unread postby truecougarblue » Fri 15 Apr 2011, 21:21:53

Once my PM holdings reach an amount adequate to pay off my mortgage on the new house I'll start selling <$10K/month and applying it to principle on the mortgage. I'll sell gold first then silver.

My reasoning is that I'd like to end up with some emergency silver left over that I can just hold. I don't want to just hold it all because I suspect that the end game for the dollar will be a transfer of debts of individuals from the failed dollar to the new dollar at unfavorable terms.

As of today I need about 30% more in aggregate gain to start selling.
Cougar

"Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." - Brigham Young
User avatar
truecougarblue
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed 21 Dec 2005, 03:00:00

Re: When will you sell your Silver/Gold?

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 15 Apr 2011, 21:30:21

1 loaf of bread = $100
Yes we are, as we are,
And so shall we remain,
Until the end.
User avatar
AgentR11
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6129
Joined: Tue 22 Mar 2011, 08:15:51
Location: East Texas

Re: When will you sell your Silver/Gold?

Unread postby dinopello » Fri 15 Apr 2011, 21:45:00

AgentR11 wrote:1 loaf of bread = $100



In Trinidad, one dollar buy
Papaya juice, banana pie
Six coconut, one female goat
An' plenty fish to fill de boat
One bushel bread, one barrel wine
An' all de town, she come to dine

But here is bad, one dollar buy
Cup of coffee, ham on rye
User avatar
dinopello
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6093
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 02:00:00
Location: The Urban Village

Re: When will you sell your Silver/Gold?

Unread postby Revi » Fri 15 Apr 2011, 21:47:56

I think it depends on whether you need the money. I think fiat currency should be thought of like fresh fruit. You want some money to buy things, but it's not a store of value any more. Like fresh fruit it doesn't last too long before it goes bad.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 6820
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: When will you sell your Silver/Gold?

Unread postby Puchica » Sat 16 Apr 2011, 06:28:40

sold our morgans and eagles this week; got hit with a horrific tax bill. Well, at least on the bright side, if the commodities markets tank, I won't be left holding the bag. On the other hand, with silver at 42, we had no problem unloading them at all. somebody out there doesn't think the silver run is over and is willing to put their cash on the line in support of that position
From the secure heights
Puchica
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed 02 Feb 2011, 07:35:51

Re: When will you sell your Silver/Gold?

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sat 16 Apr 2011, 07:36:46

I don't have much. To me it's a bit like selling your parachute while sitting in a burning plane.
User avatar
Cloud9
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed 26 Jul 2006, 02:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 10 guests