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The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

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The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 31 Mar 2015, 22:22:27

IS, like its predecessors al-Qaida and the Taliban, is the product of what Khaled Abou Al-Fadl, a reputable scholar of Islamic jurisprudence, calls Puritanical Salafism, which is a historically refined theoretical title for Wahhabism. The ideology of PS is in essence anti-Shi’ite, anti-Sufi, anti-women, anti-history, anti-aesthetic and anti-other. The reign of terror of IS bears ample proof for this negative ideology.

This ideology is also the ideology of Saudi Arabia whose ruler is the custodian of the two most holy places of Islam, Mecca and Medina, to which millions of Muslims go on pilgrimage annually. An ideology that remained largely confined to the desert kingdom until the 1980s became thereafter an exportable product largely because of the newly-acquired petrodollar wealth.

While Iran failed to export its revolution, Saudi Arabia succeeded in exporting its PS brand of Islam. This brand is the ruling Islamic paradigm which has silenced all its competitors.

Saudi Arabia has a domineering influence over the Muslim communities all over the globe except in the Shi’ite sector. Through its financial largesse to build mosques, establish cultural centres, schools and other facilities, the kingdom has won the allegiance of a majority of religious leaders. Even an institution like the Al-Azhar in Cairo which had an independent voice over religious matters until recent times has succumbed to Saudi pressure. To attack the ideology of IS is to attack the ideology of its foster-parent, Saudi Arabia, and its brand of Islam.

Saudi Arabia is alarmed at the revival of the Shi’ites. Iran’s successful revolution and Ayatollah Khomeini’s declaration to export that revolution sent shock waves across the Middle East.

Saudi Arabia has a Shi’ite minority in its eastern province, Bahrain, ruled by Sunnis, has a Shi'ite majority. With Shi’ite governments in Iraq and Syria and with Shi’ite dominance in Lebanon, the Saudi regime is facing an existential threat. Hence, its resolve to confront and kill the rise of Shi’ite power at any cost. IS is doing that job for the Saudis.

How can the Western powers destroy IS when its aims are supported by their staunch ally Saudi Arabia?

link


What do Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and the Islamic State all have in common? They are all Sunni, and they all are funded by Saudi Arabia and the other GCC Arab states.

According to US diplomatic cables released through Wikileaks, We have known this all along.

So does this not make them 'State sponsors of Terrorism'? It's all been a sham.

We have sold our collective souls for oil, sacrificing our young soldiers fighting against groups funded by our supposed allies. Instead of going after the source, and chopping off the head of institutionalized Terrorism, we have been aiding them, supporting them, protecting them, and standing against their enemies.

What greater Evil could we do as a nation?
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 31 Mar 2015, 23:22:47

Exactly, western ethics for sale for oil. Actually the ethics go free with the sale! Saudi/ Sunni/ Salafist ideology is diametrically opposed to western ideology: freedom of religion & association, equality of the sexes, sexual freedom between consenting adults, etc etc.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Fishman » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 16:57:21

Doesn't this make you an islamophobe?
So do you think Shia is better, as they call for our destruction?
Glass'em all, then punch holes in the glass for the oil?
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Fishman » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 18:07:35

This was called the Carter Policy. Present administration's policy, be so incompetent you contribute if not create chaos across northern Africa and the Middle East. Betray your friends, embolden your enemies. Then wonder why Russia, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, what's left of Yemen and Libya all give you political weggies on the world political front.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 18:11:49

SeaGypsy wrote:... western ideology: freedom of religion & association, equality of the sexes, sexual freedom between consenting adults, etc etc.
That doesn't include quite a few western religions.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby ennui2 » Sat 04 Apr 2015, 18:08:11

Cid_Yama wrote:How can the Western powers destroy IS when its aims are supported by their staunch ally Saudi Arabia?


You make it sound so easy. Declare Saudi Arabia the enemy and everything magically resolves itself? Come on, man.

Look at our policy regarding Iran. Putting Iran on our shit-list since the Shah fell hasn't stopped Iran from being a state sponsor of Shia-based terror.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 04 Apr 2015, 20:19:17

ennui2 wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:How can the Western powers destroy IS when its aims are supported by their staunch ally Saudi Arabia?


You make it sound so easy. Declare Saudi Arabia the enemy and everything magically resolves itself? Come on, man.

Look at our policy regarding Iran. Putting Iran on our shit-list since the Shah fell hasn't stopped Iran from being a state sponsor of Shia-based terror.
If only you had sent in the Marines to keep your "Shah" in power, everything would be fine, like in Saudi Arabia.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 04 Apr 2015, 20:33:56

Shia-based terror? That's a false equivalency.

Were those Shi'as that flew into the twin towers? No they were Sunni from Saudi Arabia.

We have spent over a decade fighting Sunni-Taliban and Sunni Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

We fought Sunni Al Qaeda and Bathists in Iraq and Now fight Sunni IS there. We fought Sunni Al Qaeda in Yemen and Syria, and the whole time the Saudis and their partners in the GCC have been funding all of them and funneling weapons to them.

We have proof that our own government has known this all along, but it was inconvenient, and to this day we are still conducting a cover-up, hiding it from the American people. Our own government betrayed our service men and women.

And not just our government, no, we had a coalition of the lying, who were all part of this.

Supposedly we've got so much oil we're exporting it. Time to leave these fuckers to their fate. Bring everybody home, sit back and watch the fireworks on TV.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Fishman » Sun 05 Apr 2015, 11:39:36

Were those Shi'as that blew our Marines up in Lebanon? ... oh wait, they were.

We have spent over a decade fighting Shia in Iraq

We fought Shia in Iraq and Now fight Sunni IS there, and Shia and Sunni in Yemen. We fought Sunni and Shia in Yemen and Syria, and the whole time the Iranians as have the Saudi's funded all of them and funneling weapons to them.

We have proof that our own government has known this all along, but it was inconvenient, and to this day we are still conducting a cover-up, hiding it from the American people. Our own government betrayed our service men and women. “The future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam” Barky, the lying president.

There, fixed it for you.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 05 Apr 2015, 14:50:12

We were supporting a Shia government in Iraq. Which was why the Sunni and Bathists were fighting us.

We were not fighting Shia in Yemen, we were making drone strikes on Al Qaeda in Yemen, Sunnis.

We have not been attacking Shia in Syria, we have been providing them weapons to fight Assad (Alawite Christian) through Turkey, and worried those weapons might find their way into the hands of Al Qaeda, Sunnis.

The barracks in Lebanon was attacked by a group called Islamic Jihad, suspected to be Shia. We called them terrorists, but it happened during the Lebanese civil war. We set up a base in THEIR country, and attempted to establish a puppet government. It was an act of asymmetrical warfare, not terrorism.

If someone set up a military base in your country and started acting against your interests, would you call your attack on it an act of terrorism?

Thus my original point, false equivalency.

There, corrected your ignorance for you.

Saudi Arabia and the GCC has been arming and funding those who have been fighting against us, killing our service men and women, in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So, are you defending those who have been supporting our enemies? And probably the funders of 9/11? Congress is currently fighting to have a report declassified that they claim shows just that.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Fishman » Sun 05 Apr 2015, 17:40:37

Trying to rewrite history , and poorly at that. We fought Sunni and Shia in Iraq. While the Iranian poured weapons into the battle, remember a short little cleric named Sadr? Yes we droned Sunni's in Yemen but Shia chased us out at the end. In Syria, Iranian Shia still assist Assad, the Alawites a just a tiny group. I don't recall discussing asymmetric warfare vs terrorism but if you want to use those terms then our military presence in any muslim country would justify their attacks by your logic. I'm not defending either group, just pointing out both groups enjoy killing Americans. Meanwhile Sucky's quote
“I made clear that America is not – and never will be – at war with Islam.”
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 05 Apr 2015, 20:07:25

Fishman wrote: our military presence in any muslim country would justify their attacks
Unless you're not there prop up some corrupt thug who serves your "interests".
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 05 Apr 2015, 20:28:14

Fishman, sorry your grasp of history is so bad, and your comprehension worse. We left Iraq because they would not agree to give immunity from Iraqi law to our troops and contractors. We were not chased.

Iranian military assists Assad, not terrorists. We are not currently fighting Assad or Iranian forces there.

America is NOT at war with Islam.

Sadr was a member of the of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, a leading figure in the Iraqi government until his retirement recently. Again not a terrorist, but a state actor and leading member of the Iraqi government.

All of that has nothing to do with the fact that Saudi Arabia and the GCC has been funding and arming the people our troops HAVE been fighting.

They are clearly our enemy whether it's convenient to admit it or not. And we knew and did nothing, but instead pretended it was other countries we wanted to fight who were behind it.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Fishman » Mon 06 Apr 2015, 10:03:27

And Cid, sorry for your poor reading skills. Never wrote we were chased from Iraq. So now you admit that Iranian (shia) are helping Assad (slow comprehension on your part). I never called them terrorists, you insert words when they don't fit your viewpoint. We ARE fighting Assad, proxy, with those "good " rebels. I completely agree America is not at war with Islam, but it certainly looks like the majority of Islam is at war with the US ( your words, Sunni's the problem, they are the most numerous)
Maqtada al Sadr, look him up, waged that "asymmetry warfare" against us. History doesn't seem to be your best point.

"All of that has nothing to do with the fact that Saudi Arabia and the GCC has been funding and arming the people our troops HAVE been fighting" Never denied this fact, just bringing up the other side of the coin you seem unwilling to admit exists. So are you writing from Tehran, or just on their payrole?
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 06 Apr 2015, 11:59:14

You failed to comprehend the start of this conversation. Someone made an unrelated comment about 'Shia-bassed terror' making a false equivalency with Sunni terrorism. There is no comparison. All the major terrorists organizations are Sunni.

You got off on some tangent totally unrelated, thus my comment about your lack of comprehension. You still didn't get it.

What was addressed, was an irrelevant comment on 'Shia-based terror', of which there is practically zilch. Certainly not directed against the US.

State actors like Sadr do not fall under the definition of terrorists as their actions would fall under the heading of asymmetrical warfare within their own country.

It's not my fault you are having difficulty following the conversation. Perhaps it is because you jumped in the middle of it without looking to see what it was about before posting.

Fishman wrote:"All of that has nothing to do with the fact that Saudi Arabia and the GCC has been funding and arming the people our troops HAVE been fighting" Never denied this fact...


That is what this conversation was about. There is no other side to that conversation unless you ARE denying that.

Read the first post in this thread. Then you'll be on the same page.

P.S. Shias did not chase us out of Yemen, It was Al Qaeda in Yemen that captured the city next to our base and triggered our leaving. Sunnis. Frankly, I think we left because we were informed by Saudi Arabia that they were about to start bombing, and we didn't want to be involved in a war in Yemen.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Fishman » Mon 06 Apr 2015, 14:35:35

Right Cid, Houthi's don't actually exist because that would complicate your story and Hezbollah are good guys who plant apple trees. Terrorism, asymmetric warfare, two similar turds
Sunni, Shia, - same, one bigger than the other when it comes to terrorism/asymmetric warfare.
You've convinced no one of anything.
Say, doesn't that make you an expert by this administration?
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 06 Apr 2015, 16:45:26

You still fail to comprehend, even after I took the time to break it down and explain it to you. That's your failure not mine.

Houthis exist and have been one party in a multi-sided Civil War, teamed up with the former President of Yemen prior to Hadi, Saleh (former US ally for 30 years), they have been winning the civil war, since most of the Yemen military went with Saleh.

Perhaps you just can't see beyond black and white. Unless it's simple good guy/bad guys, it's beyond your ability to understand.

Worse yet, you just let Saudi Arabia (or the media) dictate to you who the bad guys are.

As for Hezbollah they were one party in the Lebanese civil war, and are part of the Unity Government in Lebanon, currently with one minister and 11 of 30 seats on the council and have veto power as an original member of the government.

I know, this is all way beyond the simple narrative you have been spoon fed. It's much easier to have someone just tell you who the good guys/bad guys are (as if that concept really has any validity in the adult world).

Saudi Arabia and the GCC have been funding and arming those who have been fighting against us, killing our service men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. You said you get that. Good for you.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby ennui2 » Wed 08 Apr 2015, 16:54:37

Cid_Yama wrote:Saudi Arabia and the GCC have been funding and arming those who have been fighting against us, killing our service men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Cid, for the record, do you even support the mission of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place?

What exactly are you advocating?

I see a vague call for us to decouple our foreign policy decisions from our oil-dependence. That's about it, and it's kind of a vague and naive request.
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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 09 Apr 2015, 03:59:38

Democracy requires an informed (not mushroomed) citizenry. My job is to inform and educate, what you do with it is your business.

The responsibility of a citizen in a democracy requires a lot more work that swallowing the shit you're fed and wallowing in the dark.

As a citizen of a democracy you must seek the truth, and act upon it in the manner YOU see best serves. That is not always an easy task in the face of organized obfuscation and corruption.

"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

That is the true meaning of liberty, that each and every citizen has the responsibility to seek the truth and act accordingly. There is no such thing as passive liberty.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

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Re: The Roots of Middle East Extremism and Oil

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 09 Apr 2015, 09:14:26

"There is no such thing as passive liberty.: So true. During one of our darkest periods as a democracy the US watched 600,000 (a significant % of its population at the time) slaughtered during the Civil War in the effort to preserve our democracy. It's obviously easier to destroy a foreign enemy that threatens your freedom. Takes a bit more resolve to kill your own in the effort.
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