THE Rental Property Income Thread (merged)

[DesertBear2]

It is tempting to resent the boomers for their time of plenty, and be angry that we don't get the same cushy job/college/housing/blah deal they did - and that they weren't 'wise' with 'our' inheritance - but it's kind of pointless and unproductive.

I wouldn't be surprised to see rage at boomers translate into widespread violence by pissed off youth who don't get to have anything but an increasingly hard life - we shall see.

These constant hate rants against 80 million people who were born in the boomer years is getting a big old. How can an intelligent person characterize that many people with a quick hate rant?

Just for a little perspective-

-The big entitlements were for the generation preceding the boomers. These folks were born too late to fight in WW2 but had all the social benefits. Many were triple-dippers in retirement ie social security, company pension, and military pension. And they were the ones who got the $8,000 houses that turned into $300k houses. Boomers have paid the costs for these folks as well as taxes for all Great Society programs as well as the Cold War.

-Many of the boomers were getting out of college during the 70s when the US economy was in bad shape. College grads were way in excess and it was pretty difficult to find employment. Inflation of up to 21% and energy prices were both high in the bad economy of the 70s.

-Boomers were the ones who fought in Vietnam. Remember that war where 55,000 Americans died? When every male had to sign up for the draft at 18 or face imprisonment?

-Boomers were the group where women entered the work force in mass and nearly doubled the size of the US working population.

And how can anybody possibly characterize the housing bubble as a boomer conspiracy? It seems that all sectors of the population have been in on this one- from teenage to oldsters.

I would also mention that there are a lot of us who have been active in alternative energy since the 70s. Many of us have never or would never own a McMansion or drive an SUV. Many of us are strong environmentalists and contribute a lot of money to these causes. Many of us have worked and saved and lived a low consumption lifestyle...

Excuse my rant but the hatred is getting a bit out of hand.

[max_power29]

I concede the baby boomers did in fact achieve a lot of good stuff. They also brought us political correctness and its evil right hand man: excessive tort and litigation; the pussification of america. I don't have anything against the baby boomers. what I am saying is they achieved their accopmlishments because of increasing amounts of cheaper energy. with declining expensive availiable energy, everything they worked for is going to go right out the window. They have a biased world view because of their time in history and its ridiciulous that most of them think its going to be business as usual forever and to preach this idea to young people is derisory as well.

Back to the original topic of this thread. Nobody is going to be able to afford the impossible prices on their real estate or to pay their retirement checks. Its just mathematically impossible. The government in Oregon is already starting to collapse because of its outrageously generous public employee retirement system and we haven't any seen anything yet.

[clueless]

Let me share something -

I am a "boomer" and having capitalized on both the .Com and Housing bubble scam, and beating the "Bankrupters" at their own game, I own a home outright, have some cash in the bank and have no debt.

But this still does not change the fact when I was 12 years old in 1977 and the "Boomer" generation had an opportunity to prepare future generations they chose not to.

I remember hearing all the lies, lies that are now coming to fruition that my 1.5 year old and unborn child will now have to pay for.

I am being critical of my own generation - Not attacking another one. I hear it even now, I have had discussions with so many boomer people that refuse to face reality. I was talking with the local power company and even they said our consumption was "unsustainable", and just as they (the Boomers) "collectively" ignored the issue in the 70's, they will collectively face reality now.

I don't even mind the depletion and unsustainability issues, my problem is with the lying..I was allowed to live a lie for many, many years. If kid's my age were told the truth in the 70's by the "boomer" generation perhaps this country "peak oil" or not, would be a much different place.

I was thinking over the weekend that it's pretty stupid and arrogant to design an entire civilization over the assumption of cheap and abundant petroleum for eternity.

The oil depletion issue is not the only sign, in this bogus housing bubble - Who is paying for all these captial gains ? Young people...

[max_power29]

Let me share something -

I am a "boomer" and having capitalized on both the .Com and Housing bubble scam, and beating the "Bankrupters" at their own game, I own a home outright, have some cash in the bank and have no debt.

But this still does not change the fact when I was 12 years old in 1977 and the "Boomer" generation had an opportunity to prepare future generations they chose not to.

I remember hearing all the lies, lies that are now coming to fruition that my 1.5 year old and unborn child will now have to pay for.

I am being critical of my own generation - Not attacking another one. I hear it even now, I have had discussions with so many boomer people that refuse to face reality. I was talking with the local power company and even they said our consumption was "unsustainable", and just as they (the Boomers) "collectively" ignored the issue in the 70's, they will collectively face reality now.

I don't even mind the depletion and unsustainability issues, my problem is with the lying..I was allowed to live a lie for many, many years. If kid's my age were told the truth in the 70's by the "boomer" generation perhaps this country "peak oil" or not, would be a much different place.

I was thinking over the weekend that it's pretty stupid and arrogant to design an entire civilization over the assumption of cheap and abundant petroleum for eternity.

The oil depletion issue is not the only sign, in this bogus housing bubble - Who is paying for all these captial gains ? Young people...

well said, it makes me a little bit less doomeristic to know there are people that think like this in my own community.

[clueless]

Max_power -

Is there any Mountian Biking trails or fire roads out there on the BLM land ???

I have found some fire roads out in Marcola area.

[clueless]

And I disagree with the Psycho-Capitalist in the previous anti - rant...

In the history books I read older generations were smart enough in the past to realize they needed to protect the future generations not capitalize off of them.

"Boomers" are in for a big surprise as the very people they are capitalizing off of, are the very same people who they expect to cover their behinds in the next 2-30 years...

Guess what ? it ain't gonna happen that way. There is nothing left for them to use to fuel future society. In practical terms you can't ask a generation of people to keep a society going when the previous generation has already pillaged it.

I laugh at these U of O professors who are part of this debt for diploma scam... Hey, you guys are in for a big surprise, how many more kids are going to fall for this racket ? You can make more selling cars or cutting firewood these days than you can getting an entry level corporate or govt. job, and according the the local paper future wage growth is nill and most likely will decrease.

Would any of these college profs ever teach that kind of truth ??? Not on your life.

[ClassicSpiderman]

The Boomer generation typifies what the United States have become--a group of individuals that are easily categorized as "haves" and "have-nots".
Among the "haves", there are those with post-high-school educations that were rare in their time and catapulted them to relatively easy success; and there are those who graduated high school or dropped out and took up work at whichever company would hire such an individual, and had the good fortune of never being at the receiving end of a corporate downsizing, watching their wage increase gradually each and every year.
Among the "have-nots" are those that suffered financial loss due to medical problems, corporate downsizing, and divorce... And then there are those that just never had the ambition to look much further than a low-wage job, or had such poor social or mental skill that even their fellow boomers will not now hire them for a decent wage.
"Generation X," on the other hand [my generation, by the way], typifies what the United States will soon become. Among them are the high school graduates who mainly will not be afforded many opportunities...the college graduates who will not be afforded much more...and all of them wanting to have it as good as their parents.
It is a recipe for disaster.

There is a huge disconnect between the Boomer and X generations. The Boomers mostly never had to contend with serious economic competition to their livelihoods, the worst they faced was stagflation in the 1970s and even that pales in comparison to the dot com crash in the 00s. I'm one of the lucky few--I survived 20 rounds of layoffs and saw the market flooded with 'dime a dozen' MCSEs trying to find work at minimum wage. I saw several of my co-workers' livelihoods destroyed (one of them is practically homeless) while the talking heads claimed with a BOLD FACED LIE that there was a labor shortage. Excuse me--you're telling me that 300 applicants for a single position is a labor shortage???

The 1998-99 economic boom was the closest that Gen X ever experienced what the post-war generation took for granted during their prime earning years. Why? Because oil prices were at the same level per capita during the 50s-60s.

[ClassicSpiderman]

When I was traveling in India, N.Africa, and Asia I was consistently surprised to find that the "Street hustlers" were often fluent in numerous languages as well. Many of them were highly self-educated. One guy who broke his back hauling me around in a rickshaw all day, addressed me in 5 languages before he guessed I was American. After buying him some formula for his starving kid, he revealed to me that he had a science degree. It was just meaningless without any jobs.

And there is a huge disconnect between the First and Third world as well. Some smart people have even created business models based on that fact by hiring qualified workers in poor countries for pennies on the dollar. Sucks to be the guy who gets outsourced though.

[clueless]

Slavery has not been defeated, just offshored - Like everything else.

Many man hours still go into all the garbage we buy, it's just now there is no craftsmanship involved...Just folks who man the machines 24/7 for food and shelter.

[ClassicSpiderman]

I'm not in any groups. I'm a hard core doomer. you know the "mad max" kind of doomer. My strategy is to be the "last man standing" in my neighborhood after everybody starves to death or leaves looking for food and water. I'm going to claim the whole place for my family and close friends. there is a lot of good BLM land near my neighborhood. Imagine a big scotsman on a horse with a sombrero, poncho, boots and AK-47, saying "I AM THE LAW AROUND HERE!" when you venture into my neighborhood post peak. Anybody who i have given warning caught poaching or cutting trees on my land will be dealt with harshly. I consider signs and heads on pikes fair warning for poachers and bandits.

I like your style. How about this--maybe you should blackmail the entire economics profession by threatening to spill the beans on their BS (their claims of labor shortages, the success of globalization, etc) unless they give you a really good-paying job. I won't hold it against you if you become part of the talking head establishment. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

By the way, I fear 'soft landing' the most because at least in scenarios 2 + 3 one can still somehow prepare for them and you're safe in the knowledge that almost everyone (maybe even talking heads included) will be suffering along with you.

[thuja]

Come on you Gen X whiners- I'm one of you (born '71) and I still believe we have it incredibly lucky compared to most of the world and in a historical context. We may be in debt up to our eyeballs but we can still somehow afford going out for Thai food, high speed internet and jetting to the mountains for some snowboarding when it suits us. When I grew up in the 70's my boomer parents were excited about going to some cra ppy Chinese-American restaurant or drinking Henry Weinhard's for a special celebration.

Everything is better these days- restaurants, computers, stereos, televisions, women and people of color's rights, music, beer, clothing, p orn, opportunities for world experience, cars, bikes, camping gear, etc etc.

I mean we..not the boomers...are living at the pinnacle- we have luxury and unimaginably tantalizing pleasures at our fingertips. We have more than anybody has had in human history. And, we also get to watch as it all falls apart.

So no more sob stories about how the Boomers f'ed it all up. They just played along with the game, just like we are. We'll gladly drink Microbrews, smoke superior chronic kind bud, play XBox while watching p orn and numb out when given a chance. We're smart enough to know its all going to sh it and lazy enough not to make an enormous effort to deal until we really have to.

Yeah your daddy lucked out. So did you. You're not a neandrethal peasant or a Mongol vassal, or a midevil servant. You have it all. Now cry like a baby when it all goes away. Then you can complain. But not yet.

[ClassicSpiderman]

Come on you Gen X whiners- I'm one of you (born '71) and I still believe we have it incredibly lucky compared to most of the world and in a historical context. We may be in debt up to our eyeballs but we can still somehow afford going out for Thai food, high speed internet and jetting to the mountains for some snowboarding when it suits us. When I grew up in the 70's my boomer parents were excited about going to some cra ppy Chinese-American restaurant or drinking Henry Weinhard's for a special celebration.

Everything is better these days- restaurants, computers, stereos, televisions, women and people of color's rights, music, beer, clothing, p orn, opportunities for world experience, cars, bikes, camping gear, etc etc.

I mean we..not the boomers...are living at the pinnacle- we have luxury and unimaginably tantalizing pleasures at our fingertips. We have more than anybody has had in human history. And, we also get to watch as it all falls apart.

So no more sob stories about how the Boomers f'ed it all up. They just played along with the game, just like we are. We'll gladly drink Microbrews, smoke superior chronic kind bud, play XBox while watching p orn and numb out when given a chance. We're smart enough to know its all going to sh it and lazy enough not to make an enormous effort to deal until we really have to.

Yeah your daddy lucked out. So did you. You're not a neandrethal peasant or a Mongol vassal, or a midevil servant. You have it all. Now cry like a baby when it all goes away. Then you can complain. But not yet.

LOL, that was a great post, even though it was probably mostly directed at me I suppose I deserve to be knocked down a peg or two... heh.

[Vexed]

Come on you Gen X whiners- I'm one of you (born '71) and I still believe we have it incredibly lucky compared to most of the world and in a historical context. We may be in debt up to our eyeballs but we can still somehow afford going out for Thai food, high speed internet and jetting to the mountains for some snowboarding when it suits us. When I grew up in the 70's my boomer parents were excited about going to some cra ppy Chinese-American restaurant or drinking Henry Weinhard's for a special celebration.

Everything is better these days- restaurants, computers, stereos, televisions, women and people of color's rights, music, beer, clothing, p orn, opportunities for world experience, cars, bikes, camping gear, etc etc.

I mean we..not the boomers...are living at the pinnacle- we have luxury and unimaginably tantalizing pleasures at our fingertips. We have more than anybody has had in human history. And, we also get to watch as it all falls apart.

So no more sob stories about how the Boomers f'ed it all up. They just played along with the game, just like we are. We'll gladly drink Microbrews, smoke superior chronic kind bud, play XBox while watching p orn and numb out when given a chance. We're smart enough to know its all going to sh it and lazy enough not to make an enormous effort to deal until we really have to.

Yeah your daddy lucked out. So did you. You're not a neandrethal peasant or a Mongol vassal, or a midevil servant. You have it all. Now cry like a baby when it all goes away. Then you can complain. But not yet.

Bingo.

Thanks for posting that Thuja. It needed to be said.

[max_power29]

Max_power -

Is there any Mountian Biking trails or fire roads out there on the BLM land ???

I have found some fire roads out in Marcola area.

There arent any that I've noticed. There are power line trails all over it. Its wierd the suburbian developement just ends for no logical reason. Perhaps the environmentalists are holding it at bay? My house is right next to the highway and the BLM land starts about half way up the hill from the highway.

I love the Marcola area. thats where I go to shoot my rifles. Marcola is a lot more private than the main highway in thurston. However when only rich people will be able to drive, my home will be more private. then again, I imagine that once law enforcement is bankrupt these rich people will have pot shots and ambushes happen to them by the many poor people they encounter, so then my neighborhood will be even more private.

[max_power29]

I like your style. How about this--maybe you should blackmail the entire economics profession by threatening to spill the beans on their BS (their claims of labor shortages, the success of globalization, etc) unless they give you a really good-paying job. I won't hold it against you if you become part of the talking head establishment. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

This would be nice... However, I don't have the credentials. I have a bachelor of science. In economics, you at least have to have a masters degree to be taken seriously. I got to the end of my financial rope with my bachelor's degree and could not afford to go to school any longer. Also, the cornucopians own the main stream media, you could "spill the beans" all day but unless its on fox news or CNN nobody cares. I do O.K. I'm not poor but I work in a second class profession (private security) and it can be depressing. I will be poor, destitute really, if me or any of my family become ill or unemployed. My boomer parents can't figure out for the life of them why i havent been able to land a cushy job yet. I do have some business ideas such as "al la carte" cable channels, but I don't believe there will even be a functioning electricity grid by 2012.

[max_power29]

Come on you Gen X whiners- I'm one of you (born '71) and I still believe we have it incredibly lucky compared to most of the world and in a historical context. We may be in debt up to our eyeballs but we can still somehow afford going out for Thai food, high speed internet and jetting to the mountains for some snowboarding when it suits us. When I grew up in the 70's my boomer parents were excited about going to some cra ppy Chinese-American restaurant or drinking Henry Weinhard's for a special celebration.

Everything is better these days- restaurants, computers, stereos, televisions, women and people of color's rights, music, beer, clothing, p orn, opportunities for world experience, cars, bikes, camping gear, etc etc.

I mean we..not the boomers...are living at the pinnacle- we have luxury and unimaginably tantalizing pleasures at our fingertips. We have more than anybody has had in human history. And, we also get to watch as it all falls apart.

So no more sob stories about how the Boomers f'ed it all up. They just played along with the game, just like we are. We'll gladly drink Microbrews, smoke superior chronic kind bud, play XBox while watching p orn and numb out when given a chance. We're smart enough to know its all going to sh it and lazy enough not to make an enormous effort to deal until we really have to.

Yeah your daddy lucked out. So did you. You're not a neandrethal peasant or a Mongol vassal, or a midevil servant. You have it all. Now cry like a baby when it all goes away. Then you can complain. But not yet.

This is all very true. However, you DO NOT need a college degree to participate in the prosperity. Do not get tricked into the "debt for diplomas" scam. College degrees are really not necessary and do not accomplish anything anymore. That is what really chaps my hide. Only "hard" scientists and physicians belong in college anymore.

Also, i do not expect the proseprity to last more than a coupla more years at the most. The debt bomb is set to explode any time. now.

[clueless]

Spiderman -

The economic system will take care of itself. I can't understand the system of "Higher Education" we have in this country. If anything it is only higher to the white collar welfare recipient college profs who are only interested in lining thier own retirement nest eggs. Want a system of higher eduction ? How about teaching kids the truth ? Are the teachers that stupid ?

They are from the same stock that allowed retirement savings to be transfered from the poor masses to the rich robber barrons during the .com crash. I lived in Sillycon Valley all the while hearing all these crooks (which were empowered by Clinton, so it's not only Bush whose the crook), say they had "no Knowledge" of the coming crash, in spite of the fact they were able to forecast growth fairly accurately for 3-5 years. Same thing is happeing with the "Housing Bubble" Boomers are cashing in while the poor are being taken advantage of.

This is lying plain and simple - And it is continuing even today. I know Max_Power is not feeling sorry for himself, he is probably just wondering as many of us are, whay have we been lied to ?

Want to set a generation free - Try telling them the truth. There will be no cushy jobs in a couple years, so we may as well all get used to getting our hands dirty.

Sorry for the rant.......

[ClassicSpiderman]

My boomer parents can't figure out for the life of them why i havent been able to land a cushy job yet.

Hence the huge disconnect between the Boomers and the Xs. We are a civilization in denial.

[ClassicSpiderman]

The economic system will take care of itself. I can't understand the system of "Higher Education" we have in this country. If anything it is only higher to the white collar welfare recipient college profs who are only interested in lining thier own retirement nest eggs. Want a system of higher eduction ? How about teaching kids the truth ? Are the teachers that stupid ?

There are no unskilled industrial jobs left anymore, hence, the mad rush to get a diploma at any cost is an act of desperation for a chance at landing a good-paying office desk job.

They are from the same stock that allowed retirement savings to be transfered from the poor masses to the rich robber barrons during the .com crash. I lived in Sillycon Valley all the while hearing all these crooks (which were empowered by Clinton, so it's not only Bush whose the crook), say they had "no Knowledge" of the coming crash, in spite of the fact they were able to forecast growth fairly accurately for 3-5 years. Same thing is happeing with the "Housing Bubble" Boomers are cashing in while the poor are being taken advantage of.

I told a bunch of people back in 1999 that the entire dot com boom would come to a crash and people would lose the shirts off their backs. I was laughed out of the room and told that the market for internet and information services would keep growing indefinitely.

Let's just say that the feeling I had back then for the dot com crash is the same feeling I have for the end of our economic system as we know it. Great Depression II is coming.

[Vexed]

ClassicSpiderman Wrote:

I told a bunch of people back in 1999 that the entire dot com boom would come to a crash and people would lose the shirts off their backs. I was laughed out of the room and told that the market for internet and information services would keep growing indefinitely.

Hi Spidey,
Didn't it just make you want to crawl up the wall!!!!!!

I predict we will see a fizzle in boomer property just as we did with the dot-coms. A bubble is a bubble.

I wrote a lengthy post on the subject some time back in a 18 page monster thread called Waiting for Peakoil.

In March 2005 I wrote:

In the early part of the year 2001, I had a very interesting conversation with two microsoft workers I met through a mutual friend. They were young, enthusiastic, and unbelievably excited about their prospects. The world was their oyster. They were making tons of money on their stock options. They had multiple offers from dot-coms for $80,000 a year jobs. They saw the future the same way that the mainstream media was portraying it: The stock market would hit 15,000. The "new" economy would continue to fluorish. And a couple hard years working and they could retire on yachts to some Carribean island. Ah, those days seem so far away now.

Even though I had made a pretty decent mark for myself during the dot-com era, I was not so optimistic about the future. As a matter of fact, I spent two hours trying to convince these two kids ( I call them kids but they were really the same age as myself) that America was not in the wondrous position that they imagined. At the time, I even came close to predicting the 9/11 attack, which my friend who was privy to the conversation hasn't let me live down since. I had made the prediction based on what I had seen in my recent travels - in my comparisions with the underdeveloped world and our society. America just looked too much like the fat kid stealing lunchmoney from its undernourished peers. I felt there would be repercussions/consequences - and here in front of me were two Microsoft kids who had never left the country, who had no knowledge of current events, who had no political/historical reference points to base there thoughts on, and who seemed to embody American notion's of entitlement - and they thought I was insane.

That conversation lit a fire under me. I realized folks so desperately want things to turn out the way they want them that they will ignore reality. I had understood the idea for some time, but never had the concept hit me like it did now. It was an epiphony of sorts. I realized how much more control I had in of my life than they did. I realized they wanted to be manipulated - especially if that manipulation coincided with their illusions and hopes. I realized I could have manipulated these kids if I just figured out the appropriate illusions to enhance for them. People want to be comfortable (with or without kids in the mix). I don't understand that, never have. Comfort breeds complacency. There are alot of uncomfortable folks on Peakoil.com. I appreciate that.

Fast forward 5 years. The two workers are no longer in the tech industry. Many of the folks I knew in the industry who had expense accounts you wouldn't believe (I spent one incredibly pleasurable weekend in Tampa entirely funded by an Amazon reps. expense account) are now working at Wendy's or Home Depot. The signs that portended the fall finally couldn't be ignored, and the free ride finally ended.

What did I do in those five years? Well, before the bust, it was difficult to watch so much money being made without me (I kept questioning my reasoning), but I managed to hold firmly to my convictions. I just couldn't see investing when so many of the fundamentals (like, oh say, profitability) were no longer a part of the equation. I removed myself completely from the markets, and instead parked my cash in a low-yield money market fund. I then invested in commercial real estate while everyone else was buying Yahoo and AskJeeves. At the time, no one understood what I was doing. I was consistently asked why I thought I knew more than everyone else. My thoughts on the "new" economy were scoffed at. I stopped talking. No one wanted to listen. Just like Monte, I started to go slightly "nuts." It seemed like everyone just wanted to be told that everything was OK and that their stock investments would eternally return 20%.

That's where I feel the concept of Peak Oil is today. Its so damn obvious its frustrating. To some of us. But for the vast majority of Americans who place their faith in personal illusions based on what they believe they are entitled to, nothing is obvious, nothing is clear, except what they want.

With the collapse of the dot-com sector, it seemed like overnight I went from being a wingnut to a prophet. The same people who laughed at me were now asking for advice. And its ironic because my whole point was "You have to think for yourselves. Don't follow the herd." And, all of sudden, after arguing my case for years against the herd, I am proven right, and what happens? I attract a herd of my very own.

I guess my point is that in 5-10 years everything can change. And as we know, it probably will. Monte, for what its worth, my advice is: Don't rush it. Your day of vindication will most certainly come. And then, amid all the chaos, you can play the part of prophet if that's really what you want. Till then, be a good wingnut and continue to try and teach the illusioned masses. They won't respect you till you are proven right. And you won't be proven right until its too late for most.

---------------------------
Debt is Wealth.
Consumption is Growth.
Ignorance is Bliss.

If I had a dollar for every prediction of the arriving apocalypse, I would own a lot of gold.