THE Rental Property Income Thread (merged)

[Pops]

We have 40 ac., mostly suitable for grass though other crops can be grown on part.

We seem to be heading towards raising dairy calves (Holstein or Gurnsey) to sell as lightweight calves (300#) or feeders (700#). Our capital outlay is modest to this point and we can feed 15 new calves at a time.

Generally bull calves are taken from momma right after birth and raised on a bottle, then grain, then pasture until time to go to the feedlot. There isn’t much to be gained, money wise, feeding them to the higher weight on a small parcel. The labor intensive part is from day one to 300# so we may start doing some serious bottle warming.

Much has been said about subsistence farming, anyone else trying to make money from their land?

[skyemoor]

We have 40 ac., mostly suitable for grass though other crops can be grown on part.

We seem to be heading towards raising dairy calves (Holstein or Gurnsey) to sell as lightweight calves (300#) or feeders (700#). Our capital outlay is modest to this point and we can feed 15 new calves at a time.

Generally bull calves are taken from momma right after birth and raised on a bottle, then grain, then pasture until time to go to the feedlot. There isn’t much to be gained, money wise, feeding them to the higher weight on a small parcel. The labor intensive part is from day one to 300# so we may start doing some serious bottle warming.

Much has been said about subsistence farming, anyone else trying to make money from their land?

At the current time, we have 10 acres and are raising sheep. We raise about 32 lambs/year, and prices vary, though if all goes well we usually get about $100 each. So I have a long way to go before quitting my day job.

We also have a garden, though small right now (20x30), that reduces our grocery bill. And there is also the raspberries, blueberries, apples, pears, and grapes. Each of these will be expanded significantly this fall.

We plan to have draft horses, and look to foal about 1 every year or so.

We have an English Shepherd female, that we plan to breed once every other year or so. English Shepherds are excellent herding/guarding/hunting dogs, otherwise known as 'the old scotch collie'.

We may return to running a couple of steers on our property, as they do well with sheep on the same pasture (eat different plants), so the output of the land can be increased.

We plan to offer to plant neighbors fields if the economy hits hard times, so that would augment our income flexibly.

[Ludi]

I'm planning to make a tiny income from selling fruit and vegetables, eggs, possibly chicks, wool items, maybe milk and cheese, possibly olive oil, herbs.

This is all a few years in the future. My current main goal is to reduce the need to earn by getting out of debt and scaling down energy use and other expenses.

[papalegba]

I might be jaded from growing up in an area where farming was the mainstay of the local economy, but I just can't see the sense in trying to make money from farming. It might be good practice for the completely different economic situation we are likely to see in the next few years, but at the moment, trying to raise food to sell for money is a losing proposition.

I have a largish garden and small orchard on my six acres, and I see it as a means of reducing my dependence on distant sources of food and reducing my costs. Food is relatively expensive if you're buying it, but very cheap if your selling it. If you are doing it with the idea of getting the infrastructure and know-how in place for a time when people are willing to pay a lot more for their food, it makes some sense, otherwise I think you'd be better off trying to make your money in other ways.

[pip]

I raised 7 holstein calves a few years ago, and I raised quite a few when I was a kid. There is some nice money to be made there. The lack of a will to live is the only thing I don't like about those darn dairy calves. It's a stressful job trying to keep them alive.

I have a Holstein cow due to calve in a few weeks. I plan to put two calves on her at a time, weaning them every two months and then getting a couple more baby calves. I hope she can raise 6 or 8 calves per year. My wife is planning to make butter and cheese and maybe sell some to friends. We have no experience here so plans are all subject to change.

[backstop]

I would urge all smallholders to look to adding value to produce rather than trying to increase the volume sold and so pushing themselves and their land to exhaustion.

Numerous options are coming over the horizon, particularly through Farmers Markets, that I gather are doing as well in the US as they are here in EU.

I'm looking to smoked meats ("Smokies" are a Carribean delicacy and are a whole sheep lightly smoked with the head left on !)

Also Fleeces layed shingle fashion and folded in, pressed and rolled, will predictably compete with fibreglass roof insulation as oil prices rise.

Bottled rabbit stew may need some more market research . . .

Regards,

Backstop

[Pops]

Thanks for the replies so far. It seems the best way to get out of the buyers market, which most ag is, is to get into a specialty niche. There are folks who will pay big money for something different – at least today.

We came here thinking of basically subsistence in the worst case, a hobby farm in the best. The thing is that if you go with the flow, doors open. Ours was the older neighbor with a dairy, he and I hit it off and I think he feels he has a stake in helping us get along. That is better than gold.

Hence our falling into baby dairy calves. As Papa says, there isn’t much money in small scale ag. except the experience gained. My experience with cattle was the cow/calf Hereford place I grew up on till about 10. I got a feeling for how animals were making it but my parents did all the serious stuff – and a lot has changed since then.

Perhaps after a little experience with these (10 head around 650#, 3 at 3mos, 3 brand new and 12 more on the way) and a few next spring we may think about doing some specialty breed. Maybe start with a small milker like a Jersey, or maybe something more exotic for a year and feel out the market for the Escalade commuting ranchers.

There are lots of kennels around here but my folks also had dogs and I can’t stand the yapping – but I bet you could make some money with a popular breed.

Anyway, anyone else out there who can share their experience?


P.S just saw your post b. and you are exactly right, if you can make $60 feeding a pig and selling to the slaughter house, you can probably make $260 selling sausage.

[pea-jay]

Maybe the way to go is to participate in a CSA and only sell direct. Cut the middleman right out of the picture. Utilize high labor strategies instead of mechinization methods. Sell only to nearby places to cut transportation.

I am impressed by this group near Arcata that sells organic produce to the nearby town delivered by pedal powered carts. Now that's low energy food production.

Given that the 10 fossil fuel calorie to one food calorie ratio is subject to imminent renegotiation, pedal powered organic produce sold direct doesnt sound like a half bad strategy...

[clueless]

Someone please tell me who the "Boomers" are going to sell these houses to they are going to retire on ??? College kids coming out of college can't afford to rent a shante these days...


http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/h ... usat_x.htm

In ten years heating, Electric and Fuel will be the largest portion of income...

Art these people smoking crack ? Or just having LSD flashbacks.

For all Boomers - I am on the cusp (born in 64) so I guess I am one of you.....

[FoxV]

I think they're planing to sell them to all the illegals which are about to be nationalized

One of the bright sides of the housing bubble is all the condo developements going up in the downtown cores (which will never be sold or rented for a profit) will be perfect for the high density urban living required to survive Post Peak.

Thanks to all the Granite and Stainless steel upgrades they're throwing into them these days, the appliances will be able to take the wear and tear that three families squatting in a single unit will put on them

Thank the lord for flippers

[pup55]

We were just doing what we were trained to do by our parents, the "greatest generation". All we hear are these stories about how some guy bought a house for $8000 in 1967 and now it is worth $250K.

There are some lessons about thrift, hard work, character, self-restraint, a few other things that we missed along the way somehow.

It will all work out at some point.

[lutherquick]

I was born in 1965, so technicaly I'm not a boomer...

I think home values in the near future will be based on sustainability, energy efficiency, community, etc...
Many of the baby boomers will lose their shirts, big time, some will profit very well.
Homes in the future will not be just about quantity or quality or size, they will be about dealing with the effect of peak oil.

Small farms will sell well.

I think these baby boomer are hoping more immigrants will buy their homes. Or immigrants will displace the cheaper home market, thus pushing the young Americans up the wealth ladder, and they will buy the baby boomer homes.

It's going to be complicated, everyone will maneuver and try to guess the market. Most live in a delusion that growth will go on forever.
State nursing homes will house these baby boomers, and nothing will be left as inheritance to their children.
Quality of life will diminish in America, just as they retire.

[JoeW]

Clearly, the baby boomers will be remembered as a generation that made many mistakes.
They probably did some good things, also. I just can't think of any at this moment.
Most of the boomers that I have worked with have a huge sense of entitlement, make two or three times what their younger counterparts get paid, and do very little work--preferring instead to make EBay purchases during work hours, checking sports scores, shooting the breeze around the water cooler, and generally expending most of their effort dodging questions for which they have no answers because they are poorly educated and lazy. Ah, and they like to come up with new buzzwords and try to figure out how to work them into the conversation. I have noticed that lately many of them like to discuss how they will Leverage a Resource for this or that, which means getting a contractor, co-op, or less senior employee to do the actual work that needs to get done so they can go back to their EBay search for yet another classic car, or get back on the phone with their realtor about that 3rd home in Florida...

[clueless]

Clearly, the baby boomers will be remembered as a generation that made many mistakes.
They probably did some good things, also. I just can't think of any at this moment.
Most of the boomers that I have worked with have a huge sense of entitlement, make two or three times what their younger counterparts get paid, and do very little work--preferring instead to make EBay purchases during work hours, checking sports scores, shooting the breeze around the water cooler, and generally expending most of their effort dodging questions for which they have no answers because they are poorly educated and lazy. Ah, and they like to come up with new buzzwords and try to figure out how to work them into the conversation. I have noticed that lately many of them like to discuss how they will Leverage a Resource for this or that, which means getting a contractor, co-op, or less senior employee to do the actual work that needs to get done so they can go back to their EBay search for yet another classic car, or get back on the phone with their realtor about that 3rd home in Florida...

I went to a peak oil function (Heingberg) here in town, that was sponsored by the local utility co. and the Mayor, and was shocked by how many people in their twenties attending the event. 20 somethings outnumbered boomers by at least 10 to 1, I couldn't help thinking how the kids are going to react when they are asked to shoulder the final stages of their allready profligate lifestyles ?

Going to be interesting - They have already saddled the younger generations with the housing bubble, pensions, medicare, stock option ripoffs, the list goes on and on.

But know this, the cat will be let out of the bag.....

[JoeW]

I went to a peak oil function (Heingberg) here in town, that was sponsored by the local utility co. and the Mayor, and was shocked by how many people in their twenties attending the event. 20 somethings outnumbered boomers by at least 10 to 1, I couldn't help thinking how the kids are going to react when they are asked to shoulder the final stages of their allready profligate lifestyles ?

Going to be interesting - They have already saddled the younger generations with the housing bubble, pensions, medicare, stock option ripoffs, the list goes on and on.

The Boomer generation typifies what the United States have become--a group of individuals that are easily categorized as "haves" and "have-nots".
Among the "haves", there are those with post-high-school educations that were rare in their time and catapulted them to relatively easy success; and there are those who graduated high school or dropped out and took up work at whichever company would hire such an individual, and had the good fortune of never being at the receiving end of a corporate downsizing, watching their wage increase gradually each and every year.
Among the "have-nots" are those that suffered financial loss due to medical problems, corporate downsizing, and divorce... And then there are those that just never had the ambition to look much further than a low-wage job, or had such poor social or mental skill that even their fellow boomers will not now hire them for a decent wage.
"Generation X," on the other hand [my generation, by the way], typifies what the United States will soon become. Among them are the high school graduates who mainly will not be afforded many opportunities...the college graduates who will not be afforded much more...and all of them wanting to have it as good as their parents.
It is a recipe for disaster.

[clueless]

I have to agree -

I believe "peakoil" will not even be that discernable in the midst of the societal chaos to come. Debt is going to take the middle class (as if there is even such a thing now) down the tubes.

I was 7 & 12 during the last economic shocks that were only related to the oil import situation, now there are about 5 other things coming down the pipe and the "Boomers" are clueless. And they were warned , I remember listening to all the rhetoric.

I have been singing that Beach Boys song "Fun,Fun,Fun" lately and chuckle when I listen to the words, if you want to hear something that typifies them listen to the words in that song.

Well fellow Boomers, Daddy's coming for the TBird...

On a further note - I cannot envision the Fed reflating this real estate bubble, can you ???

[lateStarter]

Clearly, the baby boomers will be remembered as a generation that made many mistakes.
They probably did some good things, also. I just can't think of any at this moment.
Most of the boomers that I have worked with have a huge sense of entitlement, make two or three times what their younger counterparts get paid, and do very little work--preferring instead to make EBay purchases during work hours, checking sports scores, shooting the breeze around the water cooler, and generally expending most of their effort dodging questions for which they have no answers because they are poorly educated and lazy. Ah, and they like to come up with new buzzwords and try to figure out how to work them into the conversation. I have noticed that lately many of them like to discuss how they will Leverage a Resource for this or that, which means getting a contractor, co-op, or less senior employee to do the actual work that needs to get done so they can go back to their EBay search for yet another classic car, or get back on the phone with their realtor about that 3rd home in Florida...

Nice summary JoeW. Guilty as charged. I can personally attest that much of the boomer sucess can be attributed to being in the right place at the right time. If you were semi-attractive, had a bit of common sense, and could communicate reasonably well with your peers and upper management, you had the world at your feet. Having not been in the US workforce for several years now, I can only imagine how far the situation has degraded (Dilbert-wise).

Just so you don't feel bad, here in Europe, it is common to find very bright young people with 2 advanced degrees in business, that can speak 4 or 5 langauges and they are delivering pizza to make ends meet. They made all the right moves, it was just a case of timing. The train had already left the station years ago. I really feel bad for these younger folks because nobody told them that what they were looking to attain was only an illusion (thanks to Cheap Oil).

[Vexed]

Just so you don't feel bad, here in Europe, it is common to find very bright young people with 2 advanced degrees in business, that can speak 4 or 5 langauges and they are delivering pizza to make ends meet.

Most of the world would love to have the opportunity to deliver pizza.

When I was traveling in India, N.Africa, and Asia I was consistently surprised to find that the "Street hustlers" were often fluent in numerous languages as well. Many of them were highly self-educated. One guy who broke his back hauling me around in a rickshaw all day, addressed me in 5 languages before he guessed I was American. After buying him some formula for his starving kid, he revealed to me that he had a science degree. It was just meaningless without any jobs.

It made me want to cry.

[max_power29]

Clearly, the baby boomers will be remembered as a generation that made many mistakes.
They probably did some good things, also. I just can't think of any at this moment.
Most of the boomers that I have worked with have a huge sense of entitlement, make two or three times what their younger counterparts get paid, and do very little work--preferring instead to make EBay purchases during work hours, checking sports scores, shooting the breeze around the water cooler, and generally expending most of their effort dodging questions for which they have no answers because they are poorly educated and lazy. Ah, and they like to come up with new buzzwords and try to figure out how to work them into the conversation. I have noticed that lately many of them like to discuss how they will Leverage a Resource for this or that, which means getting a contractor, co-op, or less senior employee to do the actual work that needs to get done so they can go back to their EBay search for yet another classic car, or get back on the phone with their realtor about that 3rd home in Florida...

Good Call! you just described my work place to a tee

[max_power29]

Clearly, the baby boomers will be remembered as a generation that made many mistakes.
They probably did some good things, also. I just can't think of any at this moment.
Most of the boomers that I have worked with have a huge sense of entitlement, make two or three times what their younger counterparts get paid, and do very little work--preferring instead to make EBay purchases during work hours, checking sports scores, shooting the breeze around the water cooler, and generally expending most of their effort dodging questions for which they have no answers because they are poorly educated and lazy. Ah, and they like to come up with new buzzwords and try to figure out how to work them into the conversation. I have noticed that lately many of them like to discuss how they will Leverage a Resource for this or that, which means getting a contractor, co-op, or less senior employee to do the actual work that needs to get done so they can go back to their EBay search for yet another classic car, or get back on the phone with their realtor about that 3rd home in Florida...

I went to a peak oil function (Heingberg) here in town, that was sponsored by the local utility co. and the Mayor, and was shocked by how many people in their twenties attending the event. 20 somethings outnumbered boomers by at least 10 to 1, I couldn't help thinking how the kids are going to react when they are asked to shoulder the final stages of their allready profligate lifestyles ?

Going to be interesting - They have already saddled the younger generations with the housing bubble, pensions, medicare, stock option ripoffs, the list goes on and on.

But know this, the cat will be let out of the bag.....

Did you go to the EWEB one? I was out of town and missed it. I'm suprised the 20ish crowd was there. Most of my 20ish crowd peers are into the "american dream" scam hook, line and sinker. IS kitty piercy a peak oil believer? I thought she was just a crazy loon