Pops wrote:BTW, that whole wedge form of rising cost and lowering economic ceiling was what prompted the Price of Collapse thread trying to figure out what happens when costs rise but the economy can't pay the price
Here's one of the first scribbles I can find along that line
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
If, for the most part, none of the economies can afford more than $100/bbl but there’s enough money out there to buy more than the 60 mm bopd who gets it?
Normally prices would rise to limit demand to 60 mm bopd but again, what if there are not enough buyers that can handle more than $100/bbl?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Tanada wrote:Can anyone rationally explain to me why the WTI/Brent spread has suddenly opened up to such a wide margin? It doesn't make any sense to me so I am looking for insight as to the cause.
vision-master wrote:Gasoline prices are to drop all the way into Christmas - on the news this morning.
Yesterday - paid $3.15 gal.........
Tanada wrote:Can anyone rationally explain to me why the WTI/Brent spread has suddenly opened up to such a wide margin? It doesn't make any sense to me so I am looking for insight as to the cause.
Pops wrote:BTW, that whole wedge form of rising cost and lowering economic ceiling was what prompted the Price of Collapse thread trying to figure out what happens when costs rise but the economy can't pay the price
Here's one of the first scribbles I can find along that line
With the response to the price increase much delayed and insufficient, there will be nothing else to stop the price from rising, except demand destruction and as we well know, demand destruction of oil means a recession, because oil is a very inelastic product. A recession will in turn cause prices to go back down again, which means that oil producers will have no choice but to cut back on investment once again, just as they are increasingly doing now. It is possible that we will be caught up in a long period of repeated cycles of oil price spikes and plunges, with the price failing to stabilize as it did after the 2009 price drop. The resulting effect on the global economy can potentially be devastating.
There is only one potential factor which could help prevent such a situation and that is OPEC action. All indications are however that OPEC is no longer in the business of oil price stability. I will not speculate on the possible reasons why Saudi Arabia seems to be unwilling to stabilize the global oil market, because there has already been plenty of speculation in that regard already. We can only go on what we actually know right now, and what we do know is that OPEC is currently dysfunctional. As I pointed out many times in the past year and a half or so, the current WTI price range that is sustainable more or less from both the consumer and producer perspective seems to be $80-120, with the price ideally spending most of the time in the middle of that range. We are now obviously very far outside that range, and when prices will recover, there is a very good chance that the price will overshoot the ideal range. If we will be unable to once again stabilize within the range I suggested, we will be looking at a period of great economic upheaval for many years.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
ROCKMAN wrote:sparky - That was my point about '08. Forget about the $145/bbl spike...that was short lived. But the average price for the entire 2008 year was $98/bbl. And then prices crashed to $58/bbl for the entire 2009 year. And during 2014: oil had averaged $99/bbl. And then prices crashed to below $60/bbl. So a coincidence? Or does it show that the global economy can handle higher oil prices for just so long. When prices reach a certain sustained level, around $100/bbl, the global oil consumers can no longer make additional cuts to accommodate the higher costs as they have been. And they finally react by strongly cutting consumption which causes the oil sellers to react even more strongly to avoid losing market share in the face of decreasing oil prices. But we don't see consumption cut very much because the new low oil prices allow that level of production to still be acquired. As I pointed out before: the demand for $60/bbl oil is quite good. But not much demand for $95/bbl oil to allow the producers to hold prices there. They would still be selling $95/bbl oil today...but just not as much and thus would be seeing even lower incomes then they are earning today with $60/bbl oil.
But the global economy, still suffering from the high oil price “hangover”, isn’t able to respond quickly to the new lower price levels. It will eventually but probably won’t show up in the numbers for a year or so. Takes a while for a bad wound to heal, ya know. And perhaps just as the wound is nearly completely healed an infection (increasing oil prices) begins to develop...again. Sorta like some cases of multiple sclerosis: can walk around fairly well and then a flare up puts you back in a wheelchair. And then you improve and start walking again. Until the next flare up. So even when you're more mobile that wheelchair isn't far from your thoughts.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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