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THE Power Grid Thread (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby lotrfan55345 » Wed 26 Nov 2008, 23:21:45

No.
If you are on an internet forum there is very little chance for you being prepared for living 100% off the grid
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 00:06:01

Very few people, if anyone, are prepared for the grid to go off completely.

Fortunately, it's not going to happen any time soon.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby ki11ercane » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 01:40:21

jasonraymondson wrote:How many of you are prepared?

What will you do without your computer and internet friends to keep you company?

How many of you, are going to be able to cope, with only access to book for your entertainment?

Next year the power failures will start.

Good luck.


Unless next year is 2019, the grid will be just fine.

Don't worry, Doomer Porn will come soon, don't worry.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby Homesteader » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 01:43:27

eastbay wrote:My first Social Security check arrives in eight years so I should be ok.


:lol:
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby Narz » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 01:45:38

jasonraymondson wrote:How many of you are prepared?

What will you do without your computer and internet friends to keep you company?

I don't know. Scary.

jasonraymondson wrote:How many of you, are going to be able to cope, with only access to book for your entertainment?

I'll cope.

jasonraymondson wrote:Next year the power failures will start.

Good luck.

Wait I thought next year we were all gonna die. No, wait, sorry, that was last year. :roll:
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 02:01:07

Apparently some of you "geniuses" don't pay much attention to what is going on.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby seldom_seen » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 02:17:18

jasonraymondson wrote:Next year the power failures will start.

If the Internet goes down that means the porn industry will collapse. One of the last great American industries besides Casinos. We can't run this country just on Casinos, we need the porn.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 02:32:35

seldom_seen wrote:
jasonraymondson wrote:Next year the power failures will start.

If the Internet goes down that means the porn industry will collapse. One of the last great American industries besides Casinos. We can't run this country just on Casinos, we need the porn.


Strip clubs and brothels are old stapels
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby seldom_seen » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 02:38:26

jasonraymondson wrote:Strip clubs and brothels are old stapels

Then, yes, to answer your original question I'm prepared.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby Zardoz » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 03:01:10

jasonraymondson wrote:Apparently some of you "geniuses" don't pay much attention to what is going on.

Well, okay then, educate us. What is going on?
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 03:03:31

Zardoz wrote:
jasonraymondson wrote:Apparently some of you "geniuses" don't pay much attention to what is going on.

Well, okay then, educate us. What is going on?


Yes, Oh benevolent wise acre. Educate away.

I still ahven't seen or been able to google one piece or article that would cooberate this claim.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby Zardoz » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 03:43:17

uNkNowN ElEmEnt wrote:I still haven't seen or been able to google one piece or article that would corroborate this claim.

Same here. All I get is stuff like this:

U.S. power grid in better shape 5 years after blackout

Sure, the grid needs some work, as it always has, ever since its inception. But I can't find any indication that the electrical age is about to come to an end.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 03:47:56

Zardoz wrote:
uNkNowN ElEmEnt wrote:I still haven't seen or been able to google one piece or article that would corroborate this claim.

Same here. All I get is stuff like this:

U.S. power grid in better shape 5 years after blackout

Sure, the grid needs some work, as it always has, ever since its inception. But I can't find any indication that the electrical age is about to come to an end.


I am not promoting it but I did find this:
2009 Blackout/Brownout Study

The U.S. Faces Serious Risks of Brownouts or Blackouts in 2009, Study Warns

Enviro Group Lawsuits, Cost Concerns, Climate Regulation Uncertainty Cited As Major Obstacles To Grid Improvements

Denver, CO (Oct. 1, 2008) -- A new study released this week highlights what experts have been saying for years: the U.S. faces significant risk of power brownouts and blackouts as early as next summer that may cost tens of billions of dollars and threaten lives.

The study, "Lights Out In 2009?" warns that the U.S. "faces potentially crippling electricity brownouts and blackouts beginning in the summer of 2009, which may cost tens of billions of dollars and threaten lives."

"If particularly vulnerable regions, like the Western U.S., experience unusually hot temperatures for prolonged periods of time in 2009, the potential for local brownouts or blackouts is high, with significant risk that local disruptions could cascade into regional outages that could cost the economy tens of billions of dollars," the report warned.

U.S. baseload generation capacity reserve margins "have declined precipitously to 17 percent in 2007, from 30-40 percent in the early 1990s," according to the study. A 12-15 percent capacity reserve margin is the minimum required to ensure reliability and stability of the nation’s electricity system. Compounding this capacity deficiency, the projected U.S. demand in the next ten years is forecast to grow by 18 percent, far exceeding the projected eight percent growth in baseload generation capacity between now and 2016.
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby Zardoz » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 03:55:41

wisconsin_cur wrote:I did find this:
2009 Blackout/Brownout Study

"If particularly vulnerable regions, like the Western U.S., experience unusually hot temperatures for prolonged periods of time in 2009, the potential for local brownouts or blackouts is high, with significant risk that local disruptions could cascade into regional outages that could cost the economy tens of billions of dollars," the report warned.

Okay, that's a good one. Another possible consequence of Global Warming.

One of these days we're going to have to wake up and get serious about not wasting electricity. We may have to stop leaving our computers, air conditioners, and flat-panel TVs on all the time.
Last edited by Zardoz on Thu 27 Nov 2008, 03:56:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 03:55:45

"If particularly vulnerable regions, like the Western U.S., experience unusually hot temperatures for prolonged periods of time in 2009, the potential for local brownouts or blackouts is high, with significant risk that local disruptions could cascade into regional outages that could cost the economy tens of billions of dollars," the report warned.


See I don't buy this. When I worked for the BC Utilities Commission in 2002 they were in the process of planning the implementation of a western grid system that would see western Canada and western US on the same grid so we could pick up the slack if their needs went beyond norms.

I think its fear mongering. With the exception of the summer California (who has problems paying their bills even though our government forgave several billions of dollars worth) no one else has had any problems, cause BC Hydro loves to sell its power.

And face it Canadian politicians are such boot lickers they'd roll over and offer the soft white hide of their underbellies to their overlords at the first sign of discomfort.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby IslandCrow » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 04:44:03

I am not sure whether the original question was more about power cuts as such, or about how we will emotionally cope without the internet being available.

Regarding power cuts:
up to one day - fine. No paying work gets done (working from home, and with flexiblity in the job this is not a problem).
two - three days --- Manageable, worried about work. In winter most of the house is cooling down, so sleep in the kitchen where the wood burning stove is.
4 days to a week. Things are getting more difficult.
Week to month. Survival mode.
month to 3 months. Very difficult. Run out of stored food.
over 3 months. What is beyond very difficult?

Regarding entertainment without the internet: I have a good library, and selection of board games. Unfortunately I am not musical. There are also friends in the village so visiting would increase.

Summary. I am reasonably prerpared for cuts of up to 2 or 3 days; still have to work on preparing for longer periods, but I guess I still have time to do that.
We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby blukatzen » Thu 27 Nov 2008, 05:08:30

jasonraymondson wrote:What will you do without your computer and internet friends to keep you company?


I've only been online since '01, so I don't feel that I would be missing a great deal, even though I have 6 yahoo groups, and moderate several more. If it fails, what am I supposed to do? I pick up the phone, or write a letter, like back in the old days.

How many of you, are going to be able to cope, with only access to book for your entertainment?


DH and I have an excellent library, and we are antique book collectors on various subject matters. (we've some tomes from 1680, some from the 1700's, many from the 1800's.) Same with maps. Internet is useful like a "library in the house", but I will be grateful for having had it, for a time.

Next year the power failures will start.


They've already been powering down in Chicago. Street lights, in certain neighborhoods, are not lit in Summertime, when there is an intense draw on the system, due to air conditioning units running full blast, non-stop. When we've had storms, it's not just a few hours outtage, now, it's several days, and that was 2 years running now, usually during August storms. We own a generator now.

I can live a fairly low tech lifestyle, some of our stores run on solar panels as well. I'm ready.

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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby Narz » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 00:18:57

jasonraymondson wrote:Apparently some of you "geniuses" don't pay much attention to what is going on.

I've paid great attention. Whenever some yahoo claims the unwavering ability to predict the future (especially on peakoil.com) he's usually wrong.
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 01:02:58

Narz wrote:
jasonraymondson wrote:Apparently some of you "geniuses" don't pay much attention to what is going on.

I've paid great attention. Whenever some yahoo claims the unwavering ability to predict the future (especially on peakoil.com) he's usually wrong.


Check my record.

I have the highest amount of recorded instances of correctness.

Do I believe in psychic bull shit. Nope, but I am damn good at spotting patterns. I am also a damn lucky guesser
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Re: Are you prepared for the grid to go off?

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 28 Nov 2008, 01:20:17

jasonraymondson wrote:
Narz wrote:
jasonraymondson wrote:Apparently some of you "geniuses" don't pay much attention to what is going on.

I've paid great attention. Whenever some yahoo claims the unwavering ability to predict the future (especially on peakoil.com) he's usually wrong.


Check my record.

I have the highest amount of recorded instances of correctness.

Do I believe in psychic bull crap. Nope, but I am damn good at spotting patterns. I am also a damn lucky guesser
Anyone with an adorable little child has a strong built-in incentive to denial. It's a scary existential threat. Since this is Thanksgiving its worth considering the experience of the Puritans in their dark winter of despair. Almost every woman in the early colony died, but almost every one of their children survived. Their mothers made sure of it at the cost of their own lives. I believe we will be tested as they were in 2009. Perhaps 2010.
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