THE Post Peak Employment Thread (merged)

[bshirt]

post-collapse, any tax collectors, regulators, politicians, or other societal leeches should be disregarded as compost. i, personally, have had more than enough of our government, its hangers on, and its constant regulation of me. i am the adult of our species, dang it! if i am not hurting anyone or anything else then leave me alone.

if you have a usefull skill or the ability to learn a skill, i want to be your neighbor. if you have no skills and no desire/ability to learn any, you are a threat to my survival as you are depleting tenuous resources. i admit i'm a tad militant, but i also feel that a candid look at the people around you will make you realize how useless and stupid most people are. cold and harsh, i know, but justified. FAR too many people are only good at managing managers, shuffling paper, and kissing butt. they won't be able to make the mental leap back a century or 5. and not everyone can survive anyway, so it makes logical sense to help anyone who can help you.

Great post, handforged!

It's posts like yours that give me hope for humanity.

[bshirt]

In the short to medium term I'd say teaching is a very good career / job.

Well, completely unlike public schools of today, after PO......

1. there will be no "tenure"......incompetent teachers will be fired with no notice.

2. there will be no paid "summers off".

3. there will be no further paid eighteen zillion "national holidays" per year.

4. there will be no titantic "teacher's union" to insure annual pay raises despite horrendous testing results.

1. Its portable - pick your location

Extemely unlikely.

2. It seems likely that our Western society will attempt to stay "normal" as long as possible. Government will not give up quickly on education - the salaries might not be terrific but I expect it will stay in existance

The acceptance of, at best, dismal results, will most certainly not remain "normal". Counting on the good ol' government to keep the racket (public schools) going is bound to lead to deep disappointment. As Kunstler says, "they'll be lucky to be able to answer the phones".

The Teacher's Union, if it survives at all, will have little influence on the "local" employers. Those who can still pay something for their children's education will demand results, regardless of any Teacher's union stance.

3. Summers off currently allowing time to work on other projects.

I don't think so.

In all but the worst scenarios I expect there to be a continued feeling that education (reading, writing, math, science, some history) is a good thing.

True enough. The huge difference is, after PO, results will be demanded.

[Blacksmith]

For the blacksmith: Yes in the early days they used charcole to keep the fire hot, it is possible to weld steel in a blacksmith's fire.

emacs

http://www.abana.org/
http://www.anvilfire.com/
http://www.iforgeiron.com/
http://www.forgemagic.com/blacksmith.htm

"Every man is a smith who forges his own happiness"

[bshirt]

post-collapse, any tax collectors, regulators, politicians, or other societal leeches should be disregarded as compost. i, personally, have had more than enough of our government, its hangers on, and its constant regulation of me. i am the adult of our species, dang it! if i am not hurting anyone or anything else then leave me alone.

Well said!

I too will miss the parasites like another hole in the head.

i admit i'm a tad militant, but i also feel that a candid look at the people around you will make you realize how useless and stupid most people are. cold and harsh, i know, but justified. FAR too many people are only good at managing managers, shuffling paper, and kissing butt. they won't be able to make the mental leap back a century or 5. and not everyone can survive anyway, so it makes logical sense to help anyone who can help you.

Please allow me to add to your list the truly endless "bean counters" who cannot accomplish anything by themselves but for some bizarre reason current corporations always give them management positions over technical people.

Just bloody nuts.

And yes, while it does sound horribly egotistical the simple truth is that most Americans are essentially worthless. When the government jobs/regulations dry up they're toast.

Public school teachers, lawyers, govn regulators, highway patrolmen, post office employees, etc.....God help them. Oh sure, there might be need for some of their marginal skills, but their employer will demand results and summers off with pay, paid one hundred vacation days off annually and so on will be a far distant memory only.

personally, i'm a horticulturalist by vocation, but a farmer, blacksmith, and general handyman/laborer by advocation.

A blacksmith? Boy, that's a skill I would dearly love to have.

[Doly]

Public school teachers, lawyers, govn regulators, highway patrolmen, post office employees, etc.....God help them. Oh sure, there might be need for some of their marginal skills, but their employer will demand results and summers off with pay, paid one hundred vacation days off annually and so on will be a far distant memory only.

Teachers, lawyers and postmen/couriers are among the oldest professions in the world. The Romans already had plenty of them. It has to do with the fact that they fulfill a necessary role in society.

And if you are really thinking that we are going back that far, well, people used to have a lot more holidays back then. Not so many things (including food), but plenty of free time.

[Pyroptix]

Hi,

I'm looking at doing a Cert IV in Renewable eneregy here in Melbourne, Australia. It'll take 2 years but give a good knowledge base on a wide range of renewable options and basic electronic installation. Starting in a month.

I'm not in a postion to have a property and go self sufficient but am hoping these skills will make me usefull enough to be able to make a living both now and as we powerdown.

I'm worried as the time spent studying means less time to gain finances to equip supplies. Can only hope time is on my side.

Figure Australia's got the natural gas and uranium exports to help with sudden shocks in the next 5 years.

If we have a little time can hopefully get involved with the local geothermal developments. If not, focus on micro wind and photovoltaic.

Interested in anyones opinions of the choice and prospects?

[ccricers]

Electronics sounds like a good trade if you're really good at it. Plus, silicon parts will become limited, so will peoples' incomes, and thus the idea planned obsolescence will be as good as dead. Repairing appliances and giving new life to old things will be the order of the day. Imagine computers that are really built to last, like the cars and fridges of the 1940's. It'll simply become too expensive to manufacture new things with the notion that people will just buy something better a year from now.

On the other hand, I imagine that artistic jobs will gain some level of respect post PO. Remember that it's the artists that were given way to commercial media, and overtaken by jobs that revolve around growing the economy. Post PO all of that will be irrelevant.

[in_nowhere]

Well there are a lot of good ideas here but they say that necessity is the mother of invention. For all of our planning I am sure that a few things will pop up that no one has thought of.

I just hope too many people don't try and get into horses. They are not as easy as they sound, there is a lot to learn and hay will be darned expensive after PO. Too many people just breeding to get horses will not be good. You will end up with a lot of injuries and abused/negelected horses because people thought it would be simple. The only people who will have horses will be the ones who have enough pasture to feed them year round, and that is a lot of land.

[skyemoor]

Yes, we have 10 acres and just pasturing 2 horses will take 6 right off the top. Hay will be extra, though there will be a lot of neighbors who will not be able to mow their 10 acres and would welcome a trim.

I've been investigating no-till, and am convinced that a periodic discing would still be necessary every few years, so having horses around may be necessary.

[in_nowhere]

I don't know if this was mentioned before but what about weavers or people who raise sheep or alpacas and spin the wool. People are going to need warm clothes in colder areas and people have been using wool forever, so I guess we need to lear how to knit again.

[nella]

in nowhere. I plan on taking spinning classes. Not the bike type ether
My locally owned knitting/yarn shop also has looms and teach weaving classes.
They also have 2 spinning wheels in the store that are treadle powered. And they hold classes for those as well. So I plan to sign up. If I like it, and I probably will since I love to knit, they say they can get a good used spinning wheel for 100-150 bucks.
There are still guilds that exist for spinners and weavers in my area. I need to learn more.
This would be a secondary skill. Because I bet people will start to learn knitting hot and heavy when things get tough. But spinning's a little more skilled and wheels might be tougher to come by.

[strider3700]

I currently work for a small company, roughly 12 people. It's in an industry (forestry) that is eventually going to fail due to the lack of cheap oil. We're currently getting for lay-offs due to a strike elsewhere in the industry that will trickle down and cut our revenue off.

Since this may be an extended strike I've been looking around for other work since there is no guarantee that I'll be brought back if let go in the first place.

My wife works for the federal government. You don't get more stable then that and it should be one of the last jobs to vanish however she has effectively zero ability to negotiate raises if we end up in a hyper inflation scenario.

I'm thinking larger companies tend to be more stable in general but when they do downsize it's done a few hundred or thousand at a time. The company itself should last a good long time though because if well managed they can drag out going broke a very long time. They probably aren't at all nimble and able to adapt.

Small companies don't have the resources to drag death out for decades but hopefully are nimble enough to avoid it if they're lucky.

I've already decided to take on some new responsibilities and can't look into self-employment so that option is out.

I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are as to company size in the future when it comes to stability and peak oil.
<edit> now with the goodness of 100% Poll </edit>

[SILENTTODD]

strider3700, having just completed my 27th year with what is now called the “New” at&t I understand completely where you are coming from. When I first joined the “old” AT&T in my state (California) in 1980, it was called Pacific Telephone (& and Telegraph if you got technical).

In 1983 a totally political decision (one of the most stupid in American history) was made to break up the old AT&T. Over the next 10 years countless tens of thousands lost their good jobs providing what was the best, cheapest, communication service in the world bar none. All because a few out of control nit wits in the U.S. justice department (notice my small lettering) wanted a notch on their belt (one of many reasons I have no use for the parasite class we call attorneys).

Fortunately for me I just happened to be in the right place at the right times to avoid layoffs and consolidations as they occurred. Yes, I once took a down grade to stay with the ‘company”. But now am in a top craft position that cannot be replaced anytime before I choose to retire.

In today’s world there is no way to choose steady employment with one company, and in the future that is an obsolete concept. For anyone young out there, around 30 or below, get a skill that was in vogue about 1900. Bicycle Repair (what the Wright Brothers were doing in 1900), Cobbler (shoe maker-repair), Farmer, Blacksmith…. a number of others.

You will need to know a skill that does not rely on the current state of energy. Even I at my age, 52, am learning all I can about bicycle repair

[megawatt]

I don’t know if it has much to do with size as type of employment you are getting into. Right now the energy sector is booming I believe I have posted this here before, we cant find enough qualified people to go into wind generation. I will get to my point after I try to hit on yours. It sounds like you already have a vocation or job in mind and if so I would think larger is better. Larger corporations may have to cut back in the hard times, but as it does I believe smaller ones will go out completely under similar circumstances, different factors such a potential future growth, and by out possibilities, are all things that would need to be taken into account as well.

Ok what I see in my sector is that energy will be needed and used until the last page in this book is turned. I work in power generation in an oil field (am on the clock now) this production field is in the process of boosting output 10 fold, it has not boomed like this since the 70s, so I feel really secure here until a SHTF scenario, or natural disaster.

[skyemoor]

I don’t know if it has much to do with size as type of employment you are getting into.

Ditto, plus I would add "When". A medium to large company with factories in different regions producing workbikes, as one example, might not do well right now, but may go gangbusters in 5 years. On the other hand, some small businesses now (e.g., body shop, driveway paving, etc.) might not hold up well post-PO.

[PraiseDoom]

I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are as to company size in the future when it comes to stability and peak oil.
<edit> now with the goodness of 100% Poll </edit>

Small. That way when you need some buddies in the foxhole with you, you'll have them. Big companies are so impersonable, how can you in the few days we have left before the rolling blackouts begin even hope to determine who you should, or should not, allow to load your guns while fighting off the zombies?

[smallpoxgirl]

I'm all about self employment. Not having a boss rocks. The hours suck, but it's not so bad when you're working for yourself.

[bshirt]

I'm all about self employment. Not having a boss rocks. The hours suck, but it's not so bad when you're working for yourself.

Oh yeah!! Not having some terminally brain-dead bean-counter boss is truly a gift.

[snowshoegal]

Self employed since the day I left school. Quit my part time job for an environmental org and went on my own, sometimes not having a roof over my head.

It was worth it. Some free thinkers have to take this route to be happy.

[JBinKC]

I used to work for a large company and had my fill of the greed at the top level. It gets old when your take home pay has remained the same during my entire 13 year tenure with the company when the CEO takes home 30 million USD. I think I had my fill of slavery and the rat race.

Right now I living at my Lake of the Ozarks abode which is fully paid for. I have a garden, wood stove and free firewood, fishing and hunting and managing my Roth IRA, IRA and other assets full time at age 44. And trust me I was able to do it because I took investment risks.