Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 14 Feb 2010, 22:42:40

Global warming will be beneficial to some agricultural peoples living at high altitudes. I was travelling in the Andes over xmas, where the highest cultivated areas currently go up to ca. 12-13,000'. Warmer temps are making it possible for farmers to cultivate new areas at higher elevations.

Image
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26616
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 14 Feb 2010, 22:53:49

Seems like the southwest needs lots of arid nitrogen-fixers like mesquite to get the nitrogen BACK into the soil.
mos6507
 

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 14 Feb 2010, 23:42:23

Off topic posts and posts complaining about off topic posts being deleted have been removed. Please endeavor to stay ON TOPIC. This one and lonely thread is The POSITIVE side to Global Warming... It won't harm any of us to stay off the gloom and doom on ONE THREAD out of the thousands on this website. Thank you for your cooperation.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17050
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby pablonite » Sun 14 Feb 2010, 23:55:34

along with the elevated temperatures and levels of greenhouse gases

I think we need to take a closer look at what this means when it gets phrased into to every discussion about climate change.

The biggest greenhouse gas we know of is cloud cover, we have suspected this ever since we started sleeping under the stars. On a clear night you know it is going to get cold.

The Dr Spencer fella, a real live climatologist came up with a simple model that predicts more precipitation with increased warming and it is perhaps the negative feedback mechanism that would eventually kick in, this from what I remember in the article, I may be wrong.

There is just no case for a history of tipping points where life on earth gets wiped out, especially due to a harmless molecule known as CO2 which we know is in fact critical to plant life.

I think we have all the reason in the world to be happy about increased CO2 levels and in fact should utilize the coal burning CO2 we are going to be going through when the time comes. We already pump it into greenhouses but with all the histaria over it absurd ideas of controlling its emission at the cost of not controlling deadly poisonous emissions created every day is the height of ignorance IMO. I think we can be happy there IS another side to the debate surfacing irregardless of the causes of global warming. Or Cooling. It's one or the other after all.


Cid_Yama wrote:There is nothing positive about an Extinction Level Event.

Without them you wouldn't have been able to share your great wisdom with us, so yes, nothing positive from you is all for we each have our own perspective on reality.
User avatar
pablonite
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 723
Joined: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 03:00:00

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 00:01:15

Plantagenet wrote:Global warming will be beneficial to some agricultural peoples living at high altitudes. I was travelling in the Andes over xmas, where the highest cultivated areas currently go up to ca. 12-13,000'. Warmer temps are making it possible for farmers to cultivate new areas at higher elevations.


I have wondered from time to time just how much difference changes in sea level will have. After all if the sea level goes up a foot per decade then the tree line on any given mountain should do the same thing. Basically the tree line is altitude dependent by location, the cloud deck will intersect the mountainside differently based on latitude and altitude.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17050
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 00:03:02

Cid_Yama wrote:There is nothing positive about an Extinction Level Event.


We aren't talking about an extinction level event...we're talking about positive side effects of a possible warming atmosphere.

For example, mankinds ability to store water through lean precipitation seasons is much better than, say, a beavers. Knowing that more water might be coming, just not at the right time, us clever monkeys can store that water for use later. Been doing it for centuries now. Somehow, I'm guessing that more moisture in the atmosphere, in combination with a POSSIBLE warming, isn't going to cause us humans to suddenly forget how to build lock and dam systems, even if they are needed in areas which didn't traditionally use them before.
User avatar
shortonsense
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 3124
Joined: Sat 30 Aug 2008, 03:00:00

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Lore » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 00:13:31

Tanada wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:Global warming will be beneficial to some agricultural peoples living at high altitudes. I was travelling in the Andes over xmas, where the highest cultivated areas currently go up to ca. 12-13,000'. Warmer temps are making it possible for farmers to cultivate new areas at higher elevations.


I have wondered from time to time just how much difference changes in sea level will have. After all if the sea level goes up a foot per decade then the tree line on any given mountain should do the same thing. Basically the tree line is altitude dependent by location, the cloud deck will intersect the mountainside differently based on latitude and altitude.



The tree line is effected by cold temperatures, air pressure and moisture.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby GoghGoner » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 00:52:08

Lore wrote:
GoghGoner wrote:It should have a positive effect of reducing population and forcing evolutionary processes that have been halted to continue. I think I am and the rest of you are really stupid and it is my hope that a new species with 3x the intelligence is the future.


I’m not sure you can count on any further intelligent life coming along that would equal, let alone exceed ours, ever happening again on the planet earth, if and when we are gone. It took almost 3.8 billion years for a near mathematically impossible set of circumstances to come up with the genus Homo, which has only been around for the last 2.5 million years. There may simply not be enough time left on this planet with the right environment to come up with another species to rival our own.


Just to clarify, I am speculating that the future species will split from Homo sapiens just like our line split from the apes. Obviously, this is the positive effect I hope comes from the challenge of finite resources also. (I suppose my thoughts are somewhat off-topic but I was never exactly good at following the spirit of the instructions especially since I cannot figure out what the climate will be like in fifty years, if I do figure it out I'll be sure to come back truly on topic)


Molecular evidence suggests that between 8 and 4 million years ago, first the gorillas, and then the chimpanzees (genus Pan) split off from the line leading to the humans; human DNA is approximately 98.4% identical to that of chimpanzees when comparing single nucleotide polymorphisms
GoghGoner
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1827
Joined: Thu 10 Apr 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Stilłwater subdivision

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Lore » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 08:07:09

John Cook of Skeptical Science has given a pretty good list of the positives versus the negatives of climate change based on the research data. In which he states:

The negative impacts of global warming on agriculture, health, economy and environment far outweigh any positives
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global- ... atives.htm

Judge for yourself.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 08:40:48

Lore wrote:John Cook of Skeptical Science has given a pretty good list of the positives versus the negatives of climate change based on the research data. In which he states:

The negative impacts of global warming on agriculture, health, economy and environment far outweigh any positives
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global- ... atives.htm

Judge for yourself.


No matter how grim the storm is if you give in to despair you are much less likely to weather the troubled times it brings than you are if you keep hope alive.

I am no starry eyed idealist who believes everything will be milk and honey, neither am I such a doomer that I believe there are no benefits whatsoever. This thread is dedicated to figuring out what those benefits are and possibly determining where those benefits will be manifested.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17050
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 11:01:27

mos6507 wrote:Seems like the southwest needs lots of arid nitrogen-fixers like mesquite to get the nitrogen BACK into the soil.



Yes, they will help, but what the soil is mostly lacking is carbon (humus). Humus holds water. Much of the humus has been stripped out by overgrazing and cultivation. Restoring grasses and shrubs, also trees, will help. This work should be done while we still have powered machines. Though it can be done by hand also, with a great amount of labor. 8O
Ludi
 

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 12:02:19

Shar_Lamagne wrote:Guess this thread should be called the POLLYANNA side to Global Warming.

Pollyannaish: unreasonably or illogically optimistic


What an illogical statement. Lets illustrate the beauty and live giving sustenance of global warming.

Many many years ago New York was under a sheet of ice. Sterile, white, interesting in a monochromatic sort of way, but hardly a hotbed of biological activity. Then, as mother nature does, without a coal fired power plant or gigantic methane emission for help, the ice melted, to be replaced with lush forests, abundant undergrowth, and all the animals and worms and deer and soil which the woodland indians put to good use in their near utopian existence before modern civilization caught up with them.

There was no desert. There was only change, change in vast quantities, and undoubtedly the microbes which loved the frozen, icy wasteland of the glacial sheets were pretty irritated when they died, or moved along with the glaciers to their new location. But humans did what humans do best, and enjoyed the change, the new ecosystems which grew up after the glaciers retreated.

And if the naturally warming world now shifts from its current configuration to a wetter, more tropical configuration, what can I say? Louisiana isn't a bad place, if you remove the human political leadership and replaced them with better versions. Certainly desert dwellers like our old friend Monte won't be happy if the deserts of Arizona become wetter and suddenly more forests start growing, but it certainly isn't a bad thing in the least. More tree's and undergrowth around the Grand Canyon? I'm game! More snow for the Rockies, and by extension more water for the reservoirs of the SW? Why not? The Great Lakes getting bigger as they capture more of this runoff? Absolutely!
User avatar
shortonsense
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 3124
Joined: Sat 30 Aug 2008, 03:00:00

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 12:06:53

Lore wrote:John Cook of Skeptical Science has given a pretty good list of the positives versus the negatives of climate change based on the research data. In which he states:
The negative impacts of global warming on agriculture, health, economy and environment far outweigh any positives
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global- ... atives.htm
Judge for yourself.
Logical fallacy. I didn't see a single mention about how the LAST global warming has delivered to us a perfectly nice environment. Its like saying, "oh well sure, the LAST warming was fantastic, but the next one, well it will be different, and it will suck!"
User avatar
shortonsense
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 3124
Joined: Sat 30 Aug 2008, 03:00:00

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Lore » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 15:00:49

shortonsense wrote:Logical fallacy. I didn't see a single mention about how the LAST global warming has delivered to us a perfectly nice environment. Its like saying, "oh well sure, the LAST warming was fantastic, but the next one, well it will be different, and it will suck!"
I’m not sure why it needed mentioning? The logical fallacy would be to equate the last warm period with the one we are placing ourselves into along with several billion humans dependent on a stable environment in which to thrive.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Lore
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9021
Joined: Fri 26 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Fear Of A Blank Planet

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 15:13:52

Lore wrote: The logical fallacy would be to equate the last warm period with the one we are placing ourselves into along with several billion humans dependent on a stable environment in which to thrive.


And an assumption that a naturally warming world isn't a place where we will continue to thrive....just like we have in the past. Certainly the ecosystem around, say, the Adirondacks, is a perfect example.
User avatar
shortonsense
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 3124
Joined: Sat 30 Aug 2008, 03:00:00

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Cabrone » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 19:47:14

Positives.....?

The Sahara may get some rain and revert back to savannah as it was 6000 years ago.

Siberia, greenland and antarctica may eventually become habitable.

UK might turn into a tropical (albeit smaller) island.

I might be able to grow bananas in my back garden.
User avatar
Cabrone
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri 21 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: London

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 20:39:57

shortonsense wrote:
Lore wrote: The logical fallacy would be to equate the last warm period with the one we are placing ourselves into along with several billion humans dependent on a stable environment in which to thrive.
And an assumption that a naturally warming world isn't a place where we will continue to thrive....just like we have in the past. Certainly the ecosystem around, say, the Adirondacks, is a perfect example.
By "we" do you mean Homo sapiens? Or do you mean our society/culture (industrial agricultural civilization)?

Homo sapiens is quite adaptable, even to extreme climate change. There's evidence civilization may not be.
Ludi
 

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 21:03:48

Ludi wrote:By "we" do you mean Homo sapiens? Or do you mean our society/culture (industrial agricultural civilization)?
Homo sapiens is quite adaptable, even to extreme climate change. There's evidence civilization may not be.
I have never tried to differentiate between humans and civilization. I can understand the distinction, I'm just not certain which way I feel about the relationship.

Civilization seems to be as much of a good thing as a bad thing, with the good/bad perspective depending on which point in history you choose for reference.
User avatar
shortonsense
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 3124
Joined: Sat 30 Aug 2008, 03:00:00

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 21:09:17

shortonsense wrote:I have never tried to differentiate between humans and civilization.
So you mean both? By "we" you mean civilized humans, or maybe our current industrial agricultural civilization?

Just trying to figure out what you're saying, if anything.
Ludi
 

Re: The POSITIVE side to Global Warming...

Unread postby shortonsense » Mon 15 Feb 2010, 21:23:48

Ludi wrote:So you mean both? By "we" you mean civilized humans, or maybe our current industrial agricultural civilization? Just trying to figure out what you're saying, if anything.
Well, I can't say I have considered the difference ( in the way I think about it when I say "we" ) well enough to pontificate on the topic yet.
Last edited by shortonsense on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 15:55:35, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
shortonsense
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 3124
Joined: Sat 30 Aug 2008, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 73 guests