THE Palm Oil Thread (merged)

[holmes]

replacing this

http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/ ... ng-400.jpg

with this
http://www.zombietime.com/sf_rally_marc ... 24_IMG.JPG

and replacing this
http://www.montezumas.co.uk/uploadedima ... g_Home.jpg


with this
http://rarshow.com/extra/pics/2/fatkid.jpg

got words for your cornucopia utopia: FUCK YOU CRETIN

[Zardoz]

And they laugh at us for being apocalyptic, depressed, doom-and-gloom, slash-our-wrists, hyper-negative prophets of death and destruction!

God Almighty, how can you be any other way if you've got even a trace of a clue about what is really going on? This is getting more ridiculous with each passing day!

Lovelock is right, and we deserve what we're going to get!

[holmes]

fk em. cut off their life blood sooner the better. I want piles of borg corpses. I want the stench to be unbearable. Only then will there be a chance for a better day.

[NeoPeasant]

In our inexorable march to self induced extinction, we will take every other large animal with us. If we don't displace it out of existence, we will end up hunting it for food. The ones that survive humanity will be the ones too small to hunt with a positive EROEI.

The small rodents will survive us. "The meek shall inherit the earth" was probably just a mis-translation of "The mink shall inherit the earth"

[eric_b]

In our inexorable march to self induced extinction, we will take every other large animal with us. If we don't displace it out of existence, we will end up hunting it for food. The ones that survive humanity will be the ones too small to hunt with a positive EROEI.

The small rodents will survive us. "The meek shall inherit the earth" was probably just a mis-translation of "The mink shall inherit the earth"

Ironic when you consider that humans and primates are descended
from rodent like nocturnal creatures that padded quietly about
at night during the long reign of the dinosaurs. After surviving the
last great extinction these little critters were then able to branch
out into newly opened and vacant niches.

Perhaps this process will repeat itself after humanity burns itself
and good chunk of the biosphere out.

Yup, those dinos were genetically prime. They ruled for millions
upon millions of years. The human condition is one of genetic
degeneracy and it will amount to little more than an insignificant
blip in the history of this planet.

{edit: If the last great extinction was indeed caused by a humungous
meteor impact (quite possible) this would lend credence to my
theory. It's only by a fortunate stroke of luck that humanity was
allowed to flourish. It would appear we don't have what it takes
to make it long term, unfortunately, as we are rapidly heading
towards extinction, and we'll take many other species with us.
So enjoy every moment as our existence is more rare and precious
than you can possibly imagine }

[NeoPeasant]

Look at the bright side. We can still show our kids those old Clint Eastwood movies.

[grabby]

PLEASE! FOR ME!
NO BIOFUELS.
PLEASE?

I would buy a nice T-shirt with this gal on it if it had a BIOFULS with a slash through it.

[Ibon]

I posted the following yesterday on another thread but it is more relevant here so I will post here as well.

I was in Thailand a month ago and met a botanist professor from the University of Chang Mai. He was an american, over 60 and has lived over 30 years in Thailand as a botanist. I was consulting with him over a land restoration project I am working on to regenerate a beach forest habitat in the Adaman Sea. Anyway this professor described to me the degradation of the land and marine ecosystems in Thailand, the corruption of the forestry division and the cultural lack of environmental awareness when it comes to preserving native habitat. it was so disheartening to listen to what he has seen happen in the past 30 years. The lowland rainforest habitat in Thailand and huge parts of Maylasia and Indonesia have been converted to huge vast monocultures of palm oil and rubber trees. When you on a flight looking down on these regions it is almost mindboggling to see the endless rows of oil palms. Sad really. Latin America, where I have also spent many years, is by comparison far ahead in terms of cultural values in preservation and has huge land areas and comparitively sparse populations. The Southeast Asia lowland rainforest habitat will experience the greatest extinctions and loss of biosdiversity of all the bioregions in the world. When I see those vast monocultures of oil palms I take a different view on biodiesel as being any kind of green solution if we don't radically curve our consumption.

[holmes]

Its all very sad. Ive been down since I started thinking of the impact on the great apes. Especially the gorrilla and orangutang. They are a very peaceful breeds. The chimps and bonobos are more human like and vile.
Ive been down in Latin America myself and for all its death march it does protect vast areas and its increasing as they become more intelligent. The pantanel is in danger and the pampas is declining tho.
Asia is a sewer. Their humans a bacteria like vile specimen. The asians are the new American dream cum bags.
I said before humans are the cum stain on the underwear of history. It will dry up and vanish. Selfish smelly bloated cretinous vermin. There is only a small percentage of humans that I will associate with. The ones who want power down and that care. Care for the entire system. Truly spiritual. No need for any "ism" cult worship.

What a beutiful photo you enlarged it. Thank you. She is a beutiful creature with her little baby too. I hope they save them. I know there is a camp for orphaned Orangs down there. Heart wrenching. And then we have our children. spoiled, bloated, overfed, snotty, lazy, video game droned, pig, etc.. So wonderful. Send the shits to conservation work camp. Oh wait they cut funding for much of the job corps stuff. Build more tanks instead.
The human race is nothing more than parasite. A cancer mass on the asshole.
make that tshirt ill buy one.

[pstarr]

hey holmes. seriously agree with you.

The Orangs depend on those massive trees for support and would die on the forest floor.

I was at my friends for dinner and the other guest were talking about their homes. Someone said "nice floor what is it." I'm thinking "tropical hardwood," and she answers "asian cherry" or something. I kept my mouth shut. I trust my friends to do the right thing. I hope I am right.

[holmes]

hey holmes. seriously agree with you.

The Orangs depend on those massive trees for support and would die on the forest floor.

I was at my friends for dinner and the other guest were talking about their homes. Someone said "nice floor what is it." I'm thinking "tropical hardwood," and she answers "asian cherry" or something. I kept my mouth shut. I trust my friends to do the right thing. I hope I am right.

The old palace syndrome. Humans have this lust to live like kings even tho they are really just a puny cog in the slave machine.
Legends in their own minds.
Funny stuff when I associate outside the realm of obscurity. They really are like the jesters in the king court. I am polite and dont go balistic on them. But to me their whole existence is a joke and sometimes I find myself breaking out laughing whent they are bragging about their such and such peice of inanimate object. Very idolatrous this human species. wierd shit to me. I find myslef bored beyond belief in the realm of materialists.

[pstarr]

Holmes, here is some cheap solace for you: the orangatang does not know it's species is going extinct. They suffer more from leopards, disease, accidents or low birth rates. The don't know their territory and nesting trees disappear. Rather, the young adults don't find new reproductive territories---and die childless. Sad for us but for them?

[Ludi]

I'm sure they are as aware when their territories are cut down as we would be if our homes were destroyed. These are very intelligent animals. They don't know they're going extinct, but they certainly know when their favorite trees and foraging sites are destroyed.

[holmes]

Pstarr, Thats probably the only solice I have. The buety, diversity and colors are what keep us sane. The aesthetic qualities provided to us. The babies in these orphan camps are traumatized and have the symptoms that human babies have when their parents are murdered before their eyes and their homes raized to the ground.
But they do not know they are going to be extinct very shortly. We will then open up more room for more of these little wonderful tykes
http://www.hame.ca/blog2/images/fatty.jpg

suicider
http://web.telia.com/~u32207322/why%20f ... ople...jpg

[Zardoz]

How many people would have to change their way of life for any real change to be made in the way we're treating this planet?

Think of the numbers. Think what it would take to get the message through to all who would have to change. Even then, how could we expect them to change? We rich, well-dressed, well-fed, well-entertained elitist westerners sit here in air-conditioned comfort, bemoaning the state of the world to each other as we clatter away on our keyboards, each of us using computers powerful enough to launch satellites.

Meanwhile, billions all over the world get up each morning with one thing on their minds - surviving until tomorrow so they can get up and do it again.

There are just too many of us now to turn this around. Even if we haven't reached the critical tipping point just yet, and many think we already have, our chances of effecting enough change to stop the damage are effectively zero. How could we re-shape enough minds to make a difference?

We'll pay for this. We'll get what we deserve. If Lovelock's "Gaia" theory is correct, and the biosphere of this planet has evolved over hundreds of millions of years into a what amounts to a self-regulating single organism that continually makes the adjustments it needs to make to sustain life, then the climate anomalies we're starting to see worldwide are just the earliest signs that Gaia's immune system is starting to kick in.

We've been identified as an infection, and Gaia is going to send her antibodies after us. If she decides she can't live with any of us, she'll do what she has to do to rid herself of us, or at least reduce our numbers to such a pitiful few that we're no longer capable of hurting her.

[holmes]

Thats true Zardoz. But I refuse to self loath and be cannibalized. And I also do not own a computer or TV. Rent a small apt and use zero heat. Only the stove. Only a b3000 mazda pickup which I only use on weekends. We built this America so we did not have to live in a overpopulated hell hole. The vermin in this country seem to want to make it a overpopualted cess pool If you want to live sane then it must be defended and power down must occur. The old Injun warriors like Red Cloud and Crazy Horse knew this. The pukes in our US nation know nothing of their history or what it takes to stop rape and slavery.
I will never self loath. and I will never take the position of weakness. The masses in the other parts of the world need to stand up to their dictators.
I also will never thing in a specious Neo liberal way. Its pathetic. The old Injuns knew capitalism, sovereighnty and conservation were incompatiable. They just knew by natural earth instincts.
I despise this mulitcultural self loathing neo liberal mental illness. It is and will kill off the last continent, America.

[Earl]

Wow Grabby! You wanna be my accountant?

If we take the arguments of all you fellas to their logical conclusion, we should then call for a complete ban or boycott of all oilseed production, from soy, corn, canola, olive, sunflower etc,etc. grown in our part of the world.

Think of the amount of deforestation our oilseed production has caused and the carbon debt we had created! How neat, albeit unconcionable to attack palm oil!

[emersonbiggins]

Those damn receding horizons... (emphasis mine below)

Biofuels Backlash: Asian Palm-Oil Producers Shut PlantsPosted by Keith Johnson
U.S. and European biofuel producers are singing the blues these days. But that’s nothing compared to the tsunami overwhelming Asian biofuel makers. The good news? There may actually be a silver lining to it all.

American ethanol refiners, swamped by rising feedstock prices and a capacity glut, have seen economics go south, even with federal subsidies. European biofuel producers are shuttering plants, complaining about unfair U.S. competition and higher feedstock prices.

But in Asia, where demand for transport fuel is growing much faster than in Western economies, biofuel producers still can’t catch a break. Our EC colleague Tom Wright reports today in the WSJ (sub reqd.) that biofuel producers across southeast Asia are shelving plans for tens of billions of dollars of investment in new refineries:

That is an unexpected reversal of fortune for the industry. Just a year ago, Asian companies were rushing to build biodiesel plants to take advantage of subsidies in Europe and the U.S. aimed at promoting the consumption of cleaner-burning fuels. Projects being built or planned were forecast to pump out five million metric tons of biodiesel a year upon completion, or about half of Europe’s total refining capacity in 2007. The Indonesian government boasted that $12.5 billion in new biofuel investments were in the pipeline for that country alone.

The main culprits? Higher raw material prices, a supply glut in Europe (a big export market), and increasing concerns over the environmental impact of biofuels, especially the southeast Asian variety, which often involves deforestation. The higher prices for key ingredients like palm oil are especially painful: Indonesia’s state oil company Petamina has slashed its biofuel blend from 5% to 1% in less than 2 years because the economics just don’t work anymore.
...

The result: Some Asian palm-oil producers have scrapped their plans for biodiesel refineries, and only a few new plants have come on line. In Malaysia, for instance, the industry produced just 80,000 metric tons of biodiesel last year, much lower than the country's annual capacity of one million tons, Malaysian Commodities Minister Peter Chin said last week.

WSJ (subs. req'd)

[frankthetank]

Projects being built or planned were forecast to pump out five million metric tons of biodiesel a year upon completion

Thats around 30 million barrels. We could burn that up in a few days.

[auscanman]

I'm glad to hear this news. Perhaps the remaining rainforests in Borneo will now stand a chance.

Back in Malaysia 6 years ago it was creepy as hell to see endless rows of palm trees. The rainforests have been pretty much wiped out on the Malaysian Peninsula, and I would hate to see that kind of devastation expanded.