[onlooker]

It weakens the elite considerably because most of their wealth consists of numbers in hard drives.-- When the economic/monetary implodes it will be a whole new different world whereby the main source of power of the elites being their wealth will disappear. And of course horrible things will happen and everyone will have to adapt to have a chance to survive. Some of you here are ahead of the game for realizing and acting on that already.

[KaiserJeep]

The silliest part of the whole debate is the assumption that some extreme hardship will force the "system" to change. That almost never happens. When energy gets expensive, the 1% will have all they care to consume, the 10% will tighten their belts, and the 90% will be shivering in the dark.

The 1% will still control the 10% - the government and the armed forces. The system will persist for generations past all of us.

[onlooker]

The silliest part of the whole debate is the assumption that some extreme hardship will force the "system" to change. That almost never happens. When energy gets expensive, the 1% will have all they care to consume, the 10% will tighten their belts, and the 90% will be shivering in the dark.

The 1% will still control the 10% - the government and the armed forces. The system will persist for generations past all of us.

Kaiser, I admit that this is possible. But only if enough energy still exists and if the 10% are willing to follow the 1%. You are actually describing a world very reminiscent of Orwell's "1984". When the Industrial system crumbles not only will provision of energy be quite problematic but the monetary system will also be anachronistic. The question is why anyone would be compelled to follow the elites? Including military and police personnel. And also remember that certain skill sets will be needed to survive even among the top tiered humans. If elites do not have those skill sets they could also face existential challenges never mind open rebellion

[onlooker]

I think what some of you are missing is that true collapse will not be anything like our gradual staged ascent. We are talking about the difference between slowly constructing a building and the free fall sudden demolition of one. Remember in our ascension, we intentionally and with forethought restructured and reinvented our societies. Collapse is anything but intentional. Also, we have not prepared comprehensively for said Collapse

[Newfie]

Come on, am I the ONLY ine who looked at where they stand in the worldwide rankings? Is there ANYONE here who falls in the 10% or below?

[KaiserJeep]

All I can say is that as resources dwindle, the elites will still have such, and the toadies of the elites will have some. It is the 90% who will have nothing, including the means to affect change. There just will never be a time when the weak, the meek, or the disadvantaged will have anything they did not work for. To pretend otherwise is to be foolish, and to teach such foolishness to your kids is to take them out of the human DNA pool.

Completely your right to believe what you want. But when you look at history in it's entirety, things remain the same virtually always, and dramatic changes are almost unknown. Capitalism has been practiced in Mesopotamia in an unbroken history since 6500 BC, and it's still going.

Newfie, in answer to your question, in America as regards to the world as a whole, our Welfare recipients are in the wealthiest 10%.

When it comes to the power-down, it won't be like flipping a switch. First, they will limit power consumption, and cut off those who over-consume, via the SmartMeters. Then they will institute rolling blackouts, via the SmartMeters. This will enfold over decades.

[Newfie]

KJ et al,

That's my point. WE are the 1%.

[onlooker]

KJ et al,

That's my point. WE are the 1%.

Wealth wise but not power wise

[onlooker]

If the grid goes down in part of the US for more than two weeks there's going to be chaos. To think the 1% would have any control is hopeful...just look at Venezuela. They are going over the cliff.

Again, the elites staying in power rests ultimately on the assumption that the future world will bear some resemblance to the current conditions. That to me is not a foregone conclusion

[onlooker]

If the grid goes down in part of the US for more than two weeks there's going to be chaos. To think the 1% would have any control is hopeful...just look at Venezuela. They are going over the cliff.

Again, the elites staying in power rests ultimately on the assumption that the future world will bear some resemblance to the current conditions. That to me is not a foregone conclusion

Not to be toooo scary here . . . but an Nuclear electromagnetic pulse deliverable by a small renegade Asian nation could tip that balance.

Lots of things can take us to a brave new world including not doing anything radical ie. BAU

[Hawkcreek]

Again, the elites staying in power rests ultimately on the assumption that the future world will bear some resemblance to the current conditions. That to me is not a foregone conclusion

Plus one on this.
KJ says,"But when you look at history in it's entirety, things remain the same virtually always, and dramatic changes are almost unknown.
But I don't agree. I agree with the old saw - change is the only constant.
I consider things like the Magna Carta, WW's I & II, the American and French Revolutions, to be fairly dramatic changes. Especially if you consider the millions of lives lost, and the dramatic changes to the lives of the ones who lived afterwards.
Along with a lot more .......
I guess you have to define "dramatic change".

[Outcast_Searcher]

The silliest part of the whole debate is the assumption that some extreme hardship will force the "system" to change. That almost never happens. When energy gets expensive, the 1% will have all they care to consume, the 10% will tighten their belts, and the 90% will be shivering in the dark.

The 1% will still control the 10% - the government and the armed forces. The system will persist for generations past all of us.

As if the 1% had more than 1% of the votes.

It's easier to believe in and blame endless conspiracy theories than take personal responsibility.

[Hawkcreek]

As if the 1% had more than 1% of the votes.

It's easier to believe in and blame endless conspiracy theories than take personal responsibility.

If you don't believe that the 1% own more than 1% of the votes in the house, senate, and executive branch, you haven't even been looking, or thinking.
It's the peons fault, because they didn't vote .....hah! If they would have voted for the other guy or girl, it would have all been ok. Sure.

[onlooker]

As if the 1% had more than 1% of the votes.

It's easier to believe in and blame endless conspiracy theories than take personal responsibility.

If you don't believe that the 1% own more than 1% of the votes in the house, senate, and executive branch, you haven't even been looking, or thinking.
It's the peons fault, because they didn't vote .....hah! If they would have voted for the other guy or girl, it would have all been ok. Sure.

Yep Hawk

[onlooker]

To understand KJ you need to remember he believes in AI, robotics and the Singularity. So The Biggest Change has already arrived, we are on the road Godhood