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THE Offshore Wind Thread (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby KingM » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 08:29:36

baha wrote:OK, so I was bored.... :lol:

Someone want to check my work??


Easy enough to debunk. Thunder Horse is a huge project, not a single well. If you had 44 THs to add in the US alone, you'd triple American production of crude.

I don't know about the economics of offshore wind, but your back of the envelope math doesn't invalidate it.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby skeptik » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 08:35:04

mos6507 wrote:
skeptik wrote:Plenty of free space off Americas East & West coasts as far as I can see.


And thanks to the rapidly increasing dead zones, not a lot of environmental conerns either.

Thought we were discussing oil rigs and windmills. Agricultural run off has nothing to do with it. No dead zones in the North Sea... Old oil infrastructure there provides anchorage for sessile organisms and increased fish populations on what would otherwise be a bare muddy bottom.

baha wrote:I That is why I am hoping for a fast crash. If we realize SOON that we have to get off our asses and start building alternatives before the price is too high we might yet survive.

Bit of confused logic going on there? If you want to start building alternatives in order to survive a 'fast crash' is the last think I would have expected you to want. Surely you'd want as much time as possible to prepare and a 'slow crash' in order to ease the transition. During a 'fast crash', in the sense that I understand it, nothing much of anything gets done.
Last edited by skeptik on Thu 21 Aug 2008, 08:44:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 08:38:36

mommy22 wrote:Also, is there any effort to make small (individual house size) windmills? Where I live (NEOhio) it's either windy or sunny almost all the time...if there was a combo unit solar/windmill that would sit on my roof, I'd buy it!


You could try attaching some tiny pinwheel generators to your roof but I don't think it would do much. You need to get a large windmill high in the air to catch enough wind to be worth doing. That's when the zoning nazis will swoop down on you.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 08:38:47

I don't think it is as easy a calculation as how much energy generated by a turbine versus an oil/gas well. The offshore wind turbines are huge. The amount of energy consumed to build one needs to be taken into account. A couple of years ago I spoke with a senior exec from a company that had installed an offshore wind turbine in Scotland. His comment is it would never pay for itself if not for gov't incentives. Basically burning more oil/gas energy to build the thing than you would ever see in return.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 08:39:23

skeptik wrote:Thought we were discussing oil rigs and windmills.


Environmental impact is a big part of the OCS drilling debate.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby skeptik » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 08:57:00

mos6507 wrote:
skeptik wrote:Thought we were discussing oil rigs and windmills.


Environmental impact is a big part of the OCS drilling debate.

Right. Different subject. Nothing to do with dead zones then. Environmental impact of offshore drilling. Any conclusions yet?

Strangely enough you'd never get permission for onshore drilling in the UK on the scale seen in the USA, but there haven't been any serious problems (apart from the Piper Alpha disaster which resulted in major loss of life, but no significant pollution) with offshore UK drilling over the last 40 years.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby baha » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 09:07:20

The fast crash scenario has a "shock" factor. The real problem we have is denial. The issue is not how many wells we can drill but how can we get away from oil alltogether. I fully support offshore windmills or onshore for that matter. Fast crash will mean there is still oil available for building windmills. Slow crash means by the time we start building there will not be enough energy left to support the construction.

I also support new drilling but we need to use the energy gained to construct alternatives. The prevailing attitude is...drill more wells, get more oil, problem solved. But no matter what, eventually the oil will run out.

The only way to convince people to change their ways is to hit them in the wallet HARD AND FAST!!! A slow crash will not do that.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 10:31:58

The fast crash scenario has a "shock" factor. The real problem we have is denial. The issue is not how many wells we can drill but how can we get away from oil alltogether. I fully support offshore windmills or onshore for that matter. Fast crash will mean there is still oil available for building windmills. Slow crash means by the time we start building there will not be enough energy left to support the construction.

I also support new drilling but we need to use the energy gained to construct alternatives. The prevailing attitude is...drill more wells, get more oil, problem solved. But no matter what, eventually the oil will run out.


the argument from a sustainability standpoint makes sense until you realize if you are counting on thousands of windmills for your energy needs there is also going to be a lot of maintanence requirements. How are you going to power the maintanence boats?, what about lubricants for the moving parts?
My guess is the only possible answer involves a host of cascading alternatives (nuclear, wind, water, etc) that each have a market niche.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby joeltrout » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 11:41:57

KingM wrote:
baha wrote:OK, so I was bored.... :lol:

Someone want to check my work??


Easy enough to debunk. Thunder Horse is a huge project, not a single well. If you had 44 THs to add in the US alone, you'd triple American production of crude.

I don't know about the economics of offshore wind, but your back of the envelope math doesn't invalidate it.


But the advantage of Thunder Horse is it is a single location. Much like the THUMS project in Los Angeles. There are three drill islands. The biggest is 12 acres and the other three are 10 acres each. However they have drilled more than 1,200 from those sites and continue drilling today.

Environmental safety really isn't a factor on offshore drilling. The view obstruction is a big issue. I would rather look at a couple of offshore platforms rather than hundreds or thousands of windmills.

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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby VMarcHart » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 13:29:31

skiptamali wrote:Does anyone here have extensive experience in wind turbines?
I do. What's up?
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby skiptamali » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 19:16:32

VMarcHart wrote:
skiptamali wrote:Does anyone here have extensive experience in wind turbines?
I do. What's up?


How feasible is it to put them 15+ miles off US coastlines? Is the technology there? What happens if a hurricane hits? What's cost of installation & maintenance like? Lifespan on an offshore windmill?

Glad you showed up. :)
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby VMarcHart » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 20:39:43

skiptamali wrote:How feasible is it to put them 15+ miles off US coastlines?
It depends on the soil condition. The Atlantic is still very shallow 15 miles offshore, whereas the Pacific can be significant deeper. The shallower the easier.
skiptamali wrote:Is the technology there?
Generally yes, but the problem is not the technology; it's our insane and unstoppable demand for energy. Also, it doesn't work to produce electricity offshore Florida and transmit it 2,000 miles to Minnesota.
skiptamali wrote:What happens if a hurricane hits?
Some blades may break, it may cause excessive stress to the tower, perhaps the foundation, but if they fall, nobody will be hurt and it is easily salvable.
skiptamali wrote:What's cost of installation & maintenance like?
I can't give details, but slightly higher installation cost than land-based, with perhaps less wear and tear on the clutch and gearbox because of the steadier wind regime.
skiptamali wrote:Lifespan on an offshore windmill?
About 30 years.
skiptamali wrote:Glad you showed up. :)
Glad to serve. Let me know if you need anything else.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 22 Aug 2008, 13:48:56

Offshore wind farms is far from a theory in Texas (largest producer of onshore wind generated e in the US). Some time ago the state awarded, after competative bidding, offshore wind farm leases off the coast of south Texas. Now that the winners have the right it will be interesting to see if they can finance the follow through. Maybe V knows something about the winners.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21113169/

Looks like we'll be leading the nation in offshore wind farm development now too. As well as drilling more wells: this weeks lease sell brought in over $450 million in lease bonuses for the Feds.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby VMarcHart » Fri 22 Aug 2008, 13:59:26

ROCKMAN wrote:Offshore wind farms is far from a theory in Texas (largest producer of onshore wind generated e in the US). Some time ago the state awarded, after competative bidding, offshore wind farm leases off the coast of south Texas. Now that the winners have the right it will be interesting to see if they can finance the follow through. Maybe V knows something about the winners.
Thanks for the credit. Alas, I didn't participate in those deals. Offshore wind is great, but only goes so far. I'm sure you can inject into ERCOT South, and thus into all ERCOT --constraints permitting--, but evidently it will not go outside ERCOT. Off Beaumont/Port Arthur you can sell into Entergy, and that's about it.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 22 Aug 2008, 14:08:26

V,

It will be intersting to see if the offshore players snag the state like ole Boone did. You do know that he didn't have a buyer for most of his w Tx wind output? Last month the state PUC authorized a $4.5 billion line to haul his juice to Dallas. That's why he got the land so cheap: no competiton. Who would build a wind farm where there's no market for the output? And they're still growing the feed grass and running the cattle under the turbines. How's that for being green.

Damn...I wish I had as much smart as Boone has in his little finger.
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Re: How 'bout offshore wind instead of offshore drilling?

Unread postby VMarcHart » Fri 22 Aug 2008, 14:34:07

ROCKMAN wrote:Damn...I wish I had as much smart as Boone has in his little finger.
I find it hypocritical that a man who made so much money on feeding America's addition to oil, puts out a massive plan to cut the addiction, will make even more money on the solution, and will come out as the savior. Outrageous!
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Race to design world's biggest offshore wind turbine

Unread postby TheAntiDoomer » Thu 29 Jul 2010, 07:51:06

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ne-britain

Today, a revolutionary British design that mimics a spinning sycamore leaf and which was inspired by floating oil platform technology, entered the race. Leading engineering firm Arup is to work with an academic consortium backed by blue-chip companies including Rolls Royce, Shell and BP to create detailed designs for the "Aerogenerator", a machine that rotates on its axis and would stretch nearly 275m from blade tip to tip. It is thought that the first machines will be built in 2013-14 following two years of testing.
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Deepwater Wind Submits Bid For 1 GW Offshore Wind Project

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 10 Oct 2011, 19:15:48

Deepwater Wind Submits Bid For 1 GW Offshore Wind Project

Deepwater Wind has officially submitted its plan to develop a utility-scale offshore wind farm off the coasts of Rhode Island and Massachusetts.

The bid comes in response to the U.S. Department of the Interior's Bureau of Ocean Energy Management Regulation and Enforcement's (BOEMRE) call for information and nominations for offshore wind energy projects in the federal ocean waters off southern New England.

As planned, Deepwater Wind's project - the Deepwater Wind Energy Center (DWEC) - will have a capacity of approximately 1 GW and will serve as a regional offshore wind energy center serving multiple states on the East Coast.

DWEC will be sited in the deep ocean waters of southern Rhode Island Sound, where it will be barely visible from the shore, Deepwater Wind explains. Construction is expected to begin in 2014 or 2015, and the first wind turbines are planned to enter operation by the end of 2016 or 2017.


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Re: Deepwater Wind Submits Bid For 1 GW Offshore Wind Projec

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 10 Oct 2011, 19:23:27

Global Wind Power: The Chart

A while back I promised some charts based on the BP Statistical Review of World Energy. So, for your geeky viewing pleasure, I’ve created a “motion chart” that tracks global wind power installations, from 1997 through 2010.

Click here to see the wonktastic “motion chart.” It takes a few moments to load, so be patient. And once it loads, feel free to play with it a bit to get a feel for the numbers. The vertical axis of the chart represents per capita wind power installed in various countries, and the horizontal represents total wind power.


Third, the US—sometimes called “The Saudi Arabia of Wind“—led the world in total wind power capacity in 2008 and 2009. But in 2010 the US lost its overall lead to China. The US still beats China in terms of wind power per capita. But despite the surge in interest in renewable power in the US, China came on strong in 2008 through 2010, with massive, rapid deployment of wind power that rocketed the Asian giant into a position of global leadership.


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Offshore wind investment could reach €17bn by 2030

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 21:56:38

Offshore wind investment could reach €17bn by 2030

Europe's offshore wind industry could be investing €10.4bn in turbines annually by 2020, growing to €17bn by 2030, according to a new report from the European Wind Energy Association (EWEA).

Published yesterday, the EWEA offshore wind supply chain report (PDF) predicts that the nascent sector will grow tenfold in the next decade, delivering 40GW of installed capacity by 2020 and meeting more than four per cent of the EU's total electricity demand.

Under that deployment scenario, annual investment in offshore wind turbines could reach €10.4bn a year by 2020, creating 169,000 jobs.

The report predicts that capacity could then potentially reach 150GW by 2030, supplying 13.9 per cent of total EU electricity demand, and driving investment of €17bn a year in turbines.

Many of the projects are planned in north west Europe, particularly UK, German and Belgium waters. The UK currently has around 45 per cent of Europe's total offshore wind capacity, and is planning to build another 47GW.

According to the report, 18 European countries will have some offshore wind capacity by 2020.


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