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THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 17:05:23

India says their prototype fast reactor will be powered up in two months adding 500 MWe to their grid.

Prototype fast breeder reactor to be commissioned in two months: IGCAR director

Chennai: The country's first 500MW Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor (PFBR) is expected to be commissioned in two months and commercial generation of power is likely to begin by end of 2018. Director of Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR) Arun Kumar Bhaduri announced on Thursday at the 5th International Congress of the International Institute of Welding.

Bhaduri said the reactor, designed by IGCAR as a technology demonstrator, is in the final stage of commissioning. "In two months we will declare the reactor's criticality," he said. The Rs5,400 crore reactor has been built by Bharatiya Nabhikiya Vidyut Nigam Limited (Bhavini) at Kalpakkam.
Bhaduri had earlier said that a series of tests were being conducted in the presence of regulators. "Because this reactor is a first of its kind, we have got four regulators, which is usually not the practice. The idea is to take time and it better rather than make a mistake in haste and repent later," he said.
Simultaneously efforts will be on to build six more reactors each with a capacity of 600MW with a design optimised to low production costs and match WNA safety criteria, the IGCAR director said. "We are looking at constructing six more reactors that we call future fast breeder reactors," he said.
R Chidambaram, principal scientific advisor to the Government of India, who also addressed the gathering, said high quality welding is critical in a nuclear plant to prevent major accidents. "In a sodium-cooled fast reactor, leakage of sodium can lead to fire and leakage in one tube in the steam generator could result in discarding the entire steam generator. The industry must ensure zero defects and no distortion. There are safe welding techniques available and the non-destructive testing in nuclear power plant will ensure that the welding is of high quality," the PSA said.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 968967.cms
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 19:19:05

Subjectivist wrote:India says their prototype fast reactor will be powered up in two months adding 500 MWe to their grid.

Prototype fast breeder reactor to be commissioned in two months: IGCAR director

Chennai: The country's first 500MW Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor (PFBR) is expected to be commissioned in two months and commercial generation of power is likely to begin by end of 2018. Director of Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR) Arun Kumar Bhaduri announced on Thursday at the 5th International Congress of the International Institute of Welding.

Bhaduri said the reactor, designed by IGCAR as a technology demonstrator, is in the final stage of commissioning. "In two months we will declare the reactor's criticality," he said. The Rs5,400 crore reactor has been built by Bharatiya Nabhikiya Vidyut Nigam Limited (Bhavini) at Kalpakkam.
Bhaduri had earlier said that a series of tests were being conducted in the presence of regulators. "Because this reactor is a first of its kind, we have got four regulators, which is usually not the practice. The idea is to take time and it better rather than make a mistake in haste and repent later," he said.
Simultaneously efforts will be on to build six more reactors each with a capacity of 600MW with a design optimised to low production costs and match WNA safety criteria, the IGCAR director said. "We are looking at constructing six more reactors that we call future fast breeder reactors," he said.
R Chidambaram, principal scientific advisor to the Government of India, who also addressed the gathering, said high quality welding is critical in a nuclear plant to prevent major accidents. "In a sodium-cooled fast reactor, leakage of sodium can lead to fire and leakage in one tube in the steam generator could result in discarding the entire steam generator. The industry must ensure zero defects and no distortion. There are safe welding techniques available and the non-destructive testing in nuclear power plant will ensure that the welding is of high quality," the PSA said.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 968967.cms


Yeah, they are going to fire that baby up and hook it to this grid:

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What could go wrong?
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 22 Jan 2018, 15:23:20

GHung wrote:
What could go wrong?


They could turn off the nuclear power plant and switch to generating electricity using coal, like the Germans did....or switch to using NG like the people on the US east coast have done.

Either way, their emissions of greenhouse gases would go way up.

Image
Germany switched to "brown coal" to replace nuclear power, causing their CO2 emissions to go waaaay up.

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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 12:56:54

Bankrupt France will soon change its name too. They plan on being experts in the business of dismantling starting with France.

New Areva changes name to Orano


http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/C-New ... 01185.html

Quote:
Orano said its new name derived from Ouranos, the Greek god who became Uranus in Roman mythology and from whom the planet takes its name. It was later to serve as a point of reference when the term 'uranium' was created.

"Orano symbolizes a new start," said Orano CEO Philippe Knoche. "A new start that has been under preparation for several years now. We have set up a new organisational structure, a new business plan, a new strategic action plan and a new social contract. Our new identity is the natural result of all this."

He added, "Our new name symbolises our conviction: nuclear power has a future, as it is a competitive, low-carbon [source of] energy that creates jobs. Orano has all it needs to play a key role in this. We have big ambitions for Orano, namely for it to become the leader in the production and recycling of nuclear materials, waste management, and dismantling within the next ten years. I have full confidence in our capacity to give nuclear energy its full value."
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 12:59:57

The Peoples Republic of California has succeeded in going bankrupt.

Diablo Canyon shutdown last chapter for clean nuclear power in California

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/01/25/d ... alifornia/

Quote:
The Public Utility Commission has accepted PG&E’s plan to close Diablo Canyon, the state’s single largest power plant and the last of its nuclear reactors, once their federal operating licenses expire. PG&E determined it would be “uneconomical” to continue operations beyond that point and plans to recover the lost generation with natural gas, renewables, and energy efficiency measures. The decision has been several years in the making and the outcome is of little surprise at this point. But what really drove this decision? To answer that question, it’s worth exploring that word “uneconomical.” California’s electricity markets have been qualified, constrained, and manipulated in so many ways that more accurate term would be “politically unacceptable.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 16:11:38

StarvingLion wrote:The Peoples Republic of California ....
Diablo Canyon shutdown last chapter for clean nuclear power in California

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/01/25/d ... alifornia/

The Public Utility Commission has accepted PG&E’s plan to close Diablo Canyon, the state’s single largest power plant and the last of its nuclear reactors, once their federal operating licenses expire. PG&E ...plans to recover the lost generation with natural gas.... ”


The liberal environmentalists are going to kill us all. They don't seem to understand that increased use of NG means increased levels of CH4 in the atmosphere, a greenhouse gas 60 times more powerful then CO2.

Its crazy to shut down a power source that emits no CO2 and replace it with power sources that emit greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

You'd think the moronic politicians who run California would've noticed that the state is experiencing droughts, record heat waves, and record forest fires that are linked to global warming, and taken steps to reduce their fossil fuel emissions. But no......California shuts its nuclear plants and BOOSTS its emissions of greenhouse gases.

Image
Shame on California. First they exterminate the California Golden Bear with unchecked hunting, and now they want to exterminate everything else with unchecked carbon emissions.

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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 17:35:53

Plantagenet wrote:
StarvingLion wrote:The Peoples Republic of California ....
Diablo Canyon shutdown last chapter for clean nuclear power in California

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/01/25/d ... alifornia/

The Public Utility Commission has accepted PG&E’s plan to close Diablo Canyon, the state’s single largest power plant and the last of its nuclear reactors, once their federal operating licenses expire. PG&E ...plans to recover the lost generation with natural gas.... ”


The liberal environmentalists are going to kill us all. They don't seem to understand that increased use of NG means increased levels of CH4 in the atmosphere, a greenhouse gas 60 times more powerful then CO2.

Its crazy to shut down a power source that emits no CO2 and replace it with power sources that emit greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

You'd think the moronic politicians who run California would've noticed that the state is experiencing droughts, record heat waves, and record forest fires that are linked to global warming, and taken steps to reduce their fossil fuel emissions. But no......California shuts its nuclear plants and BOOSTS its emissions of greenhouse gases.

Image
Shame on California. First they exterminate the California Golden Bear with unchecked hunting, and now they want to exterminate everything else with unchecked carbon emissions.

Cheers!


Meh. Diablo is a poor poster child for nuke plants that should remain open. While it produces about 8.5% of California's power, both reactors are pre-70s designs located less than a mile from a fault line. Better to fix the nimbyism in regard to further wind development in the state than squeeze more years out of outdated reactors in a crappy location. Or build new modern reactors that aren't located next to fault lines.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 29 Jan 2018, 18:17:36

[sarc]Don't you know that wind turbines are death mills, sweeping bats and the poor little birdies out of the sky?

Covering a field in solar panel arrays suppresses the natural semi-arrid vegetation in favor of the shade loving groundcovers.

Hydropower floods natural mountain valleys behind dams, causing untold damage to plant and animal species, replacing them with aquatic species.

For the good of the Earth, the only reasonable solution is human genocide.[/sarc]
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Fri 02 Feb 2018, 20:55:28

Modern Monetary Theory is working beautifully in Japan. A nuclear reprocessing facility that has been under construction for 30 years has been delayed again. When will it be completed? Never.

Image

https://asia.nikkei.com/Japan-Update/Ja ... er-setback

TOKYO/AOMORI -- Japan's central government is finding itself in a bind over its long-standing nuclear fuel cycle policy, due to repeated delays in the completion of a key facility, two and a half decades after construction work began.

The policy suffered another setback recently as Japan Nuclear Fuel Ltd. unveiled plans to delay by three years the completion of its spent-nuclear-fuel reprocessing plant under construction in the Aomori Prefecture village of Rokkasho.

JNFL said late last year that the plant is now scheduled to be completed during the first half of fiscal 2021, beginning in April 2021, instead of during the first half of fiscal 2018 as previously planned.

Construction work on the plant began in 1993, with completion initially planned for 1997. Almost 25 years later, the plant has yet to go online, despite the more than 2 trillion yen ($17.9 billion) that has already been spent.

Japan is resource-poor and imports almost all of its oil, mostly from the politically volatile Middle East. The country has pinned its hopes on the nuclear fuel cycle policy to enhance its energy self-sufficiency.

The policy specifically calls for reprocessing spent fuel from nuclear power plants, extracting the plutonium and uranium, and recycling them as nuclear fuel.

It faces another major problem. Even if the reprocessing plant eventually goes online, it is still unclear whether Japan will be able to consume all the plutonium extracted from the spent fuel.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Sat 03 Feb 2018, 09:16:45

2,490,000 Gridweenies held captive:

Georgia Regulators Won’t Reconsider Decision On Vogtle Nuclear Project

Georgia regulators won’t reconsider their decision allowing construction at a troubled nuclear power project to continue.

The Public Service Commission voted in December to keep the nuclear expansion at Plant Vogtle going despite billions of dollars in cost overruns and a five-year delay.

The consumer advocacy group Georgia Watch had asked the PSC to revisit that December decision.

“We still have not seen any analysis of what the actual cost will be to ratepayers and how much more the company’s shareholders will profit as a result of that decision,” said Liz Coyle, director of Georgia Watch.

Georgia Power is the biggest owner of Plant Vogtle, and its customers pay for financing costs and profits on their monthly bills.

Coyle said the PSC didn’t gather all the evidence before voting to allow the project to go forward.

“Some of what they ordered has a real impact on ratepayers, on the customers of Georgia Power,” she said.

For example, allowing Georgia Power to begin collecting money from its customers to pay for the capital costs of the nuclear units as they come online, rather than waiting for the project to be completed.

At a hearing Thursday morning, Georgia Power’s attorney Kevin Greene told the PSC the decision they’d made was legally sound.

“This motion for reconsideration merely asks you to change your decision because Georgia Watch disagrees with it,” said Greene.

The Commission unanimously voted not to reconsider.

Earlier this week, Georgia Power said the nuclear fee on its customers’ bills would be lower starting in April because of the federal tax overhaul. Georgia Power customers will also receive credits on three electric bills this year coming from payments from Toshiba. That company owed money to the owners of Plant Vogtle after its subsidiary Westinghouse, which was the lead contractor on the nuclear project, went bankrupt.

https://www.wabe.org/georgia-regulators ... r-project/
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby dissident » Sat 03 Feb 2018, 09:26:33

"Gridweenies".

Cute, some hikamori variant is spouting off about the irrelevance of base load electricity supply to modern civilization. The hinterland simply has no capacity to absorb all the "gridweenies" taking up survivalist lifestyles. So we come to the real essence of the anti-nuke dementia: the desire to cull most of humanity so that the "ready ones" can take over.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Sat 03 Feb 2018, 09:45:48

dissident wrote:"Gridweenies".

Cute, some hikamori variant is spouting off about the irrelevance of base load electricity supply to modern civilization. The hinterland simply has no capacity to absorb all the "gridweenies" taking up survivalist lifestyles. So we come to the real essence of the anti-nuke dementia: the desire to cull most of humanity so that the "ready ones" can take over.


Consider "gridweenie" as a term of endearment :-D And as for your "hikamori" comment, I'm quite outgoing. Beyond that, I have family and friends that will be forced to pay for this ongoing debacle, likely for decades. As for "the desire to cull most of humanity so that the "ready ones" can take over"; I'm fully aware that humanity will be self-culling at some point. No need for my participation. I just plan to watch it play out from the cheap seats. Call me lazy if you will.

Anything else?
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 04 Feb 2018, 14:05:41

Praise God intelligence won out over the NIMBY/short term economics crowd.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby GHung » Sun 04 Feb 2018, 14:28:50

Tanada wrote:Praise God intelligence won out over the NIMBY/short term economics crowd.


This was never a NIMBY issue. There are already reactors online at both of these sites where new AP1000 reactors are being built (though the two in SC seem to be scrubbed), so folks in the area already have nukes in their backyards. The primary objection (on paper) is that rate payers will be on the hook for multi-billion dollar, multi-year-delays, screw-ups.

If your home-building contractor (or subs) came in at twice the price you were originally quoted, well before the home was completed, would you object? Just roll over and pay up? Would you care much if the general contractor said the cost/time overruns were out of their control? At least you could likely legally walk away and find another place to live. These rate payers have no choice but to pay up or get their power cut off, while watching share holders reap benefits.
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby aspera » Sun 04 Feb 2018, 16:29:48

Diablo is a poor poster child for nuke plants that should remain open. While it produces about 8.5% of California's power, both reactors are pre-70s designs located less than a mile from a fault line.

Agreed Ghung. But that's an understatement. My Uncle was a deputy director at the AEC/NRC dealing with both project management and reactor safety, and dealt directly with the Diablo nuke. He's cited in the press and in NRC documents as saying some rather stupid things (e.g., sunk construction costs makes a case for going ahead despite the fault nearby), that the staff did not take the fault seriously (yes, he said that on record), and he also went on record that it was impractical (economically) to make the design changes needed to withstand the 0.7g (70% of gravity) ground acceleration that the USGS said the fault could produce. The plant was designed for 0.4g although certain parts might survive greater acceleration levels.

Over many beers and many years (he and I went to the same engineering school and hung out on alumni days when I was on campus and later) he admitted to stuff that I won't write down here other than admitting that many of the things that came out publically, while extremely embarrassing, were NOT the worst of it.

So, sure Plant, it's the "liberal environmentalists who are going to kill us..."
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Re: THE Nuclear Power Thread pt 9 (merged)

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Sun 04 Feb 2018, 20:27:00

GHung wrote:If your home-building contractor (or subs) came in at twice the price you were originally quoted, well before the home was completed, would you object? Just roll over and pay up? Would you care much if the general contractor said the cost/time overruns were out of their control? At least you could likely legally walk away and find another place to live. These rate payers have no choice but to pay up or get their power cut off, while watching share holders reap benefits.


The AP1000 units were the first power reactors ordered in the USA since the Three Mile Island accident in 1979. Without an experienced workforce, especially on the management side, it was inevitable there would be problems in the construction of these units. This is the big challenge in resuming the construction of power reactors in Western countries -- the expertise and experience in constructing power reactors is largely gone because no one has been building new reactors. Even France which is the most heavily dependent on nuclear power nation in the world has not completed a new reactor since the year 2000. Their current project to build a new design, EPR, reactor is over budget and behind schedule. While the fact that it is a new design would be a factor, the fact that there was such a long gap where no reactors were under construction undoubtedly is contributing to the problems too!

In my country, Canada, the last power reactors to enter service were units 3 and 4 at Darlington in 1993. With no new construction likely in the near future, both Ontario Hydro and Atomic Energy of Canada moved quickly to terminate thousands of jobs that had been involved with reactor construction.
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Re: Death Knell for Nuclear Power

Unread postby GHung » Mon 19 Feb 2018, 09:31:03

Considering the ongoing problems building the first new reactors, for decades, in the US, is this a precedent for future attempts? If utilities are being limited from having customers pay these projects forward, will the financing be possible?

Ga. Nuclear Bill, No Longer About Vogtle, Clears Committee

A proposed bill that would have limited how much Georgia Power customers have to pay to help build nuclear Plant Vogtle doesn’t do that anymore. Now the bill affects any future nuclear power plants but doesn’t change things for Vogtle.

The original version had been waiting for a committee hearing but hadn’t gotten one.

This version will still have an impact, said state Sen. Chuck Hufstetler, the Rome Republican who introduced the bill.

“Make sure that anything that happens in the future has to come back to the Legislature, and let’s discuss the financing method,” he said.

Georgia Power’s customers have paid about $2 billion toward the nuclear project on their monthly utility bills.

Liz Coyle, director of the consumer group Georgia Watch, is a critic of Plant Vogtle, but she’s still happy with this version of the bill.

“It allows protections for Georgians in the future, and maybe by next year, we’ll be able to look for something that will relieve Georgians today who are paying those bills,” she said.

Plant Vogtle is years behind schedule, and its budget has nearly doubled to more than $22 billion.

The state Legislature passed a bill in 2009 allowing Georgia Power to collect money from its customers before the project is complete. Hufstetler said he thinks that bill – SB 31 – was a mistake.

“And I think people who voted for it, in hindsight, think it was a mistake. So this will stop that from being used in the future,” he said. “I think the safeguards weren’t put in there in the event of it having cost overruns and delays that allowed for additional profit and additional payments to be made.”

Hufstetler’s bill reversing SB 31 passed out of committee unanimously Thursday.
https://www.wabe.org/ga-nuclear-bill-no ... committee/
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