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THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Fusion

Unread postby StarvingLion » Wed 26 Oct 2016, 05:43:36

The alternative fusion designs are all scams. They say "the tokamak DT reaction with its outstanding unsolved problems sucks from an engineering and financial perspective so lets make the physics even harder to grasp and make the plasma even 1000 times more difficult to initiate and control." Pure fraud.
EV's are fuel-less automobiles and Thorium Reactors are fuel-less reactors. Perfect.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby kublikhan » Sun 27 Aug 2017, 13:32:54

The goal of the ITER team is to produce these 500 MW from an input of just 50 MW. Recently, a team of researchers from the MIT published a paper that suggests this achievement is realistic. The MIT team tweaked the “recipe” for nuclear fusion in such a way that the output of power was ten times greater than with the original composition, which consists of 95 percent deuterium ions and 5 percent hydrogen ions, forming plasma heated to incredibly high temperatures in the tokamak from the movement of the ions.

The team, from the Plasma Science and Fusion Center of the MIT, added trace amounts—1 percent—of helium-3 to the traditional combination and tested the new combination at the Alcator C-Mod tokamak. The results showed that the hydrogen-deuterium-helium plasma got wrigglier and hotter, producing 10 times more energy than before.

One of the scientists involved in the project, John C. Wright, explains, “These higher energy ranges are in the same range as activated fusion products. To be able to create such energetic ions in a non-activated device — not doing a huge amount of fusion — is beneficial, because we can study how ions with energies comparable to fusion reaction products behave, how well they would be confined.”

The test results were so exciting that another team, the one working with the JET in the UK, decided to replicate them. The replication confirmed the results, raising hopes that a fully functional nuclear fusion reactor may indeed be on the horizon.
Researchers Announce Nuclear Fusion Breakthrough
The oil barrel is half-full.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 12:01:00

"The goal of the ITER team..."

is to delay delay delay until the oil apocalypse puts them out of business
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Sys1 » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 12:18:06

In my opinion, nuclear fusion technology (meaning out of a star's heart) is probably impossible because of Fermi paradox. If it were possible, extra Earth civilisations would have used it in order to survive and expand in outer space. Since we have no clue that a single advanced civilisation spawned from one system to another in the galaxy, all of that while sending billions of radio signals, it means that accessing to infinite energy is out of reach.
So... we are heading towards collapse. We deserve it.
We are such hatefull towards nature, life and everything beside money that we must be crushed to the ground forever.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dissident » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 13:06:01

Sys1 wrote:In my opinion, nuclear fusion technology (meaning out of a star's heart) is probably impossible because of Fermi paradox. If it were possible, extra Earth civilisations would have used it in order to survive and expand in outer space. Since we have no clue that a single advanced civilisation spawned from one system to another in the galaxy, all of that while sending billions of radio signals, it means that accessing to infinite energy is out of reach.
So... we are heading towards collapse. We deserve it.
We are such hatefull towards nature, life and everything beside money that we must be crushed to the ground forever.


This is an indirect argument against it. The direct one is that magnetically confined super high temperature fusion is not observed in nature. Stars operate at much lower temperatures and use gravitational compression to achieve fusion. So they do not have all the plasma stability issues that tokamak (or any other variant) fusion does. Fusion bombs work by compression (even if the fission core is at the center of the device) and not high temperature.

The addition of He-3 is interesting because it seems to suggest a way to increase plasma heating efficiency. This is one of the biggest steps in this research area since its dawn. This tells me that understanding of plasma dynamics is very underdeveloped even after decades of research. You would think that all sorts of plasma mixtures would have been tested a long time ago. It seems this field is far from the practical development pathway and more in the blue sky research realm. There are all sorts of research projects that can be studied ad infinitum without actually making any practical progress towards a viable reactor.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 15:41:05

Major problem of fusion is in form of those pesky 14MeV neutrons capable to corrode any imaginable tokamak casing material.
They obviously cannot be contained by magnetic fields due to lack of electric charge.
This problem alone would make any reactor short living adventure needing major overhaul every few weeks and may prevent commerciallization of fusion.

Regarding 3He, well it is essentially artificial isotope in very short supply. In natural He it is in negligible proportion and it is commercially produced by beta decay of tritium.
And no, we are not going to mine the Moon.

Regarding fusion bombs - I think, even now there is no consensus between scientists how exacty they work.
Compression by intense gamma radiation from fission primer is one of factors but themperature there is also very high (these few cc in the center of fission core is all at 200MeV after all and it is higher energy *density* than one found in supernova explosions).
On the top of it we have pressure waves from evaporating tamper material etc.

As per Fermi paradox... well if life have appeared via *pure chance*, eg was not created and cannot hike between stellar systems on comets or by other means, we might well be alone not only in Galaxy but in entire visible Universe.
Spontaneous appearance of life may be an extremely low probability event as it calls for creation of information contained for example in DNA out of nothing. Such "emergence" of information is a challenge to 2nd law of thermodynamics, perhaps permitted by statistical mechanics but unprobable to the extreme.
Relevant discussion of *information* in context of 2nd law is related to so called Maxwell's demon and perpetual motion machine operated by said demon.
So we should not be surprised if we are alone or for some ill understood reasons there might be plenty of protoplazma around but noone to talk to.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 16:56:53

Sys1 wrote:In my opinion, nuclear fusion technology (meaning out of a star's heart) is probably impossible because of Fermi paradox. If it were possible, extra Earth civilisations would have used it in order to survive and expand in outer space. Since we have no clue that a single advanced civilisation spawned from one system to another in the galaxy, all of that while sending billions of radio signals, it means that accessing to infinite energy is out of reach.
So... we are heading towards collapse. We deserve it.
We are such hatefull towards nature, life and everything beside money that we must be crushed to the ground forever.

Since when would fusion energy be anything remotely like "infinite"? It would be a whole lot, obviously. And based on mankind's history, we'd find a way to use (wastefully) all we could produce, at the expense of the planet.

So maybe species with that just destroy themselves another way (vs AGW) before they become proficient at long range space travel, long term colonial space expansion, etc.

(I'm not saying I believe manmade fusion will be practical in our lifetimes -- I just don't agree with the Fermi paradox as a strong proof it's not feasible).
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