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THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Fusion

Unread postby StarvingLion » Wed 26 Oct 2016, 05:43:36

The alternative fusion designs are all scams. They say "the tokamak DT reaction with its outstanding unsolved problems sucks from an engineering and financial perspective so lets make the physics even harder to grasp and make the plasma even 1000 times more difficult to initiate and control." Pure fraud.
America cannot afford combustion.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby kublikhan » Sun 27 Aug 2017, 13:32:54

The goal of the ITER team is to produce these 500 MW from an input of just 50 MW. Recently, a team of researchers from the MIT published a paper that suggests this achievement is realistic. The MIT team tweaked the “recipe” for nuclear fusion in such a way that the output of power was ten times greater than with the original composition, which consists of 95 percent deuterium ions and 5 percent hydrogen ions, forming plasma heated to incredibly high temperatures in the tokamak from the movement of the ions.

The team, from the Plasma Science and Fusion Center of the MIT, added trace amounts—1 percent—of helium-3 to the traditional combination and tested the new combination at the Alcator C-Mod tokamak. The results showed that the hydrogen-deuterium-helium plasma got wrigglier and hotter, producing 10 times more energy than before.

One of the scientists involved in the project, John C. Wright, explains, “These higher energy ranges are in the same range as activated fusion products. To be able to create such energetic ions in a non-activated device — not doing a huge amount of fusion — is beneficial, because we can study how ions with energies comparable to fusion reaction products behave, how well they would be confined.”

The test results were so exciting that another team, the one working with the JET in the UK, decided to replicate them. The replication confirmed the results, raising hopes that a fully functional nuclear fusion reactor may indeed be on the horizon.
Researchers Announce Nuclear Fusion Breakthrough
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 12:01:00

"The goal of the ITER team..."

is to delay delay delay until the oil apocalypse puts them out of business
America cannot afford combustion.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Sys1 » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 12:18:06

In my opinion, nuclear fusion technology (meaning out of a star's heart) is probably impossible because of Fermi paradox. If it were possible, extra Earth civilisations would have used it in order to survive and expand in outer space. Since we have no clue that a single advanced civilisation spawned from one system to another in the galaxy, all of that while sending billions of radio signals, it means that accessing to infinite energy is out of reach.
So... we are heading towards collapse. We deserve it.
We are such hatefull towards nature, life and everything beside money that we must be crushed to the ground forever.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dissident » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 13:06:01

Sys1 wrote:In my opinion, nuclear fusion technology (meaning out of a star's heart) is probably impossible because of Fermi paradox. If it were possible, extra Earth civilisations would have used it in order to survive and expand in outer space. Since we have no clue that a single advanced civilisation spawned from one system to another in the galaxy, all of that while sending billions of radio signals, it means that accessing to infinite energy is out of reach.
So... we are heading towards collapse. We deserve it.
We are such hatefull towards nature, life and everything beside money that we must be crushed to the ground forever.


This is an indirect argument against it. The direct one is that magnetically confined super high temperature fusion is not observed in nature. Stars operate at much lower temperatures and use gravitational compression to achieve fusion. So they do not have all the plasma stability issues that tokamak (or any other variant) fusion does. Fusion bombs work by compression (even if the fission core is at the center of the device) and not high temperature.

The addition of He-3 is interesting because it seems to suggest a way to increase plasma heating efficiency. This is one of the biggest steps in this research area since its dawn. This tells me that understanding of plasma dynamics is very underdeveloped even after decades of research. You would think that all sorts of plasma mixtures would have been tested a long time ago. It seems this field is far from the practical development pathway and more in the blue sky research realm. There are all sorts of research projects that can be studied ad infinitum without actually making any practical progress towards a viable reactor.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 15:41:05

Major problem of fusion is in form of those pesky 14MeV neutrons capable to corrode any imaginable tokamak casing material.
They obviously cannot be contained by magnetic fields due to lack of electric charge.
This problem alone would make any reactor short living adventure needing major overhaul every few weeks and may prevent commerciallization of fusion.

Regarding 3He, well it is essentially artificial isotope in very short supply. In natural He it is in negligible proportion and it is commercially produced by beta decay of tritium.
And no, we are not going to mine the Moon.

Regarding fusion bombs - I think, even now there is no consensus between scientists how exacty they work.
Compression by intense gamma radiation from fission primer is one of factors but themperature there is also very high (these few cc in the center of fission core is all at 200MeV after all and it is higher energy *density* than one found in supernova explosions).
On the top of it we have pressure waves from evaporating tamper material etc.

As per Fermi paradox... well if life have appeared via *pure chance*, eg was not created and cannot hike between stellar systems on comets or by other means, we might well be alone not only in Galaxy but in entire visible Universe.
Spontaneous appearance of life may be an extremely low probability event as it calls for creation of information contained for example in DNA out of nothing. Such "emergence" of information is a challenge to 2nd law of thermodynamics, perhaps permitted by statistical mechanics but unprobable to the extreme.
Relevant discussion of *information* in context of 2nd law is related to so called Maxwell's demon and perpetual motion machine operated by said demon.
So we should not be surprised if we are alone or for some ill understood reasons there might be plenty of protoplazma around but noone to talk to.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 28 Aug 2017, 16:56:53

Sys1 wrote:In my opinion, nuclear fusion technology (meaning out of a star's heart) is probably impossible because of Fermi paradox. If it were possible, extra Earth civilisations would have used it in order to survive and expand in outer space. Since we have no clue that a single advanced civilisation spawned from one system to another in the galaxy, all of that while sending billions of radio signals, it means that accessing to infinite energy is out of reach.
So... we are heading towards collapse. We deserve it.
We are such hatefull towards nature, life and everything beside money that we must be crushed to the ground forever.

Since when would fusion energy be anything remotely like "infinite"? It would be a whole lot, obviously. And based on mankind's history, we'd find a way to use (wastefully) all we could produce, at the expense of the planet.

So maybe species with that just destroy themselves another way (vs AGW) before they become proficient at long range space travel, long term colonial space expansion, etc.

(I'm not saying I believe manmade fusion will be practical in our lifetimes -- I just don't agree with the Fermi paradox as a strong proof it's not feasible).
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Watch Our New Documentary About the Future of Fusion Energy

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 29 Oct 2017, 08:33:38


Every second for the last four-and-a-half billion years, trillions of hydrogen atoms have been converted into helium in the Sun's core and released an immense amount of energy in the process. This is a process known as nuclear fusion, and figuring out how to harness this source of virtually limitless clean energy on Earth has been a holy grail of physics for the last 80 years. In the early days, most of the pioneering fusion research was done behind the closed doors of top secret government labs. At places like Sandia National Laboratory, physicists are still studying fusion energy using some of the most complex machines in the world in order to better understand the nuclear weapons fusion research helped create. In the last two decades, however, venture capital has been pouring into fusion energy research and a number of private companies are


Watch Our New Documentary About the Future of Fusion Energy
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Fusing Heavy Quarks Can Produce 10 Times More Energy Than Nu

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 07 Nov 2017, 13:26:48



assive amount of energy that can spill out into the universe. The fusion of two bottom quarks will produce 138 megaelectronvolts (MeV), which is eight times more powerful than individual nuclear fusion events inside a hydrogen bomb. Is There Reason To Worry About Threats From A Quark Bomb? Researchers, however, said that this kind of quark fusion could not be used to make a powerful quark bomb. "We suggest some experimental setups in which the highly exothermic nature of the fusion of two heavy-quark baryons might manifest itself. At present, however, the very short lifetimes of the heavy bottom and charm quarks preclude any practical applications of such reactions," the researchers wrote in their study, which was published in the journal Nature on Nov. 2. Hydrogen bomb explosions occur because of individual fusion reactions that need a large mass of particles, something that would not be


Fusing Heavy Quarks Can Produce 10 Times More Energy Than Nuclear Fusion
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Re: Fusing Heavy Quarks Can Produce 10 Times More Energy Tha

Unread postby AdamB » Tue 07 Nov 2017, 13:29:37

Impossible!!! Peak oil, any of them will keep it from happening!!

Innocent bystander asks, "And why will they keep technology from killing off our disgusting habit of burning stuff so a soccer mom can move little johnny to practice in a 3 ton monstrosity that is polluting the air we breath?"

And doomer says, "BECAUSE I WANT MY DOOM AND I'M NOT IMAGINATIVE TO COME UP WITH ANYTHING ELSE!!!"

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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby GHung » Tue 07 Nov 2017, 14:06:09

Yet another very childish post accusing 'doomers' of being childish.

This why we will fail. Most of us can't even see the irony.
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Re: Fusing Heavy Quarks Can Produce 10 Times More Energy Tha

Unread postby diemos » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 10:13:27

AdamB wrote:


assive amount of energy that can spill out into the universe. The fusion of two bottom quarks will produce 138 megaelectronvolts (MeV), which is eight times more powerful than individual nuclear fusion events inside a hydrogen bomb. Is There Reason To Worry About Threats From A Quark Bomb? Researchers, however, said that this kind of quark fusion could not be used to make a powerful quark bomb. "We suggest some experimental setups in which the highly exothermic nature of the fusion of two heavy-quark baryons might manifest itself. At present, however, the very short lifetimes of the heavy bottom and charm quarks preclude any practical applications of such reactions," the researchers wrote in their study, which was published in the journal Nature on Nov. 2. Hydrogen bomb explosions occur because of individual fusion reactions that need a large mass of particles, something that would not be


Fusing Heavy Quarks Can Produce 10 Times More Energy Than Nuclear Fusion


Lord ... and here I thought the E-Cat was the depths of stupidity. These people have managed to open a portal into an alternate dimension of stupidity.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby pstarr » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 10:39:15

Hilarious :)
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Cog » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 10:47:38

Sys1 wrote:In my opinion, nuclear fusion technology (meaning out of a star's heart) is probably impossible because of Fermi paradox. If it were possible, extra Earth civilisations would have used it in order to survive and expand in outer space. Since we have no clue that a single advanced civilisation spawned from one system to another in the galaxy, all of that while sending billions of radio signals, it means that accessing to infinite energy is out of reach.
So... we are heading towards collapse. We deserve it.
We are such hatefull towards nature, life and everything beside money that we must be crushed to the ground forever.


Not necessarily. The speed of light might be a true limitation regarding space travel and colonization. The development of fusion power doesn't help you out much if it still takes centuries to travel between star systems.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 11:08:27

Cog wrote:
Sys1 wrote:In my opinion, nuclear fusion technology (meaning out of a star's heart) is probably impossible because of Fermi paradox. If it were possible, extra Earth civilisations would have used it in order to survive and expand in outer space. Since we have no clue that a single advanced civilisation spawned from one system to another in the galaxy, all of that while sending billions of radio signals, it means that accessing to infinite energy is out of reach.
So... we are heading towards collapse. We deserve it.
We are such hatefull towards nature, life and everything beside money that we must be crushed to the ground forever.


Not necessarily. The speed of light might be a true limitation regarding space travel and colonization. The development of fusion power doesn't help you out much if it still takes centuries to travel between star systems.


If Bussard Ramjet fusion motors are possible then you are still limited by relativity to somewhere around half and eighty percent of light speed. However at those speeds you could travel from Earth to Alpha Centauri in about 9 years which is a long time, but not an unreasonably long period. It will take you thousands of years to travel over 500 light years, but as a spreading civilization it is unlikely a given person will be going that far. instead it would probably happen more like the settling of North America, the nearby stars are colonized and once populated they send out colonies to stars further away and so on. The Ancient Greeks and Ancient Phoenicians both used this system with city states sending out colonies that developed into independent cities all around the Mediterranean and all the way to a Phoenician colony at modern London, England where they traded for tin with the local population.

Without Bussard ramjets your next best bet is an Ion drive powered by a large fission reactor that captures interstellar gasses and then ejects them as reaction mass through the ion drive. Proposed versions of this system would provide something like .01g of acceleration and top out at 10% of light speed because they create drag in the process of gathering interstellar mass to use in the drive system. At those speeds Alpha Centaurus becomes more like 50 years away and you need a generational ship, but we routinely build large structures that last this long or much longer so it is not impossible, just difficult.

The low energy options like laser boosted solar sails take a very long time and become very difficult.

I don't believe in Warp drive or Hyper-drive as portrayed by Hollywood, but my formal Physics education ended decades ago and the big brains might still find some kind of loop hole to make travel much faster.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Cog » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:44:27

You would still have a problem with even hitting dust particles at anything approaching relativistic speeds.
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Re: THE Nuclear Fusion Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby StarvingLion » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:49:15

Terrestrial fusion is a total scam. Don't know why Rossi gets slammed while MCF and ICF are considered 'legitimate'. They're all xxxxing scams. Why?

1. There is no chain reaction mechanism for fusion.

2. Low cross section of fusion reaction sets a lower limit on the size of a nuclear reaction.

There isn't even a fusion fuel. Tritium is not a fuel. ITER is a total scam. DT fuel, there is no such thing.

The "National" "Ignition" Facility is a Hoax.
America cannot afford combustion.
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