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THE North Slope Thread (merged)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: BP Spill - WOW! 75% Water Cut

Unread postby paoniapbud » Tue 15 Aug 2006, 19:07:41

Taskforce_Unity wrote:@Americandream


@poaniapbud

In two to five years is impossible. Recent Scientific research carried about by Charles Hall from New York State University with data from J.S. Herold Inc and BP showed that the EROEI of oil production is currently an aggregrate of 1:25. It has been declining somewhat in recent years due to the addition of various unconventional projects. It will decline further, but stay positive enough until at least 2030.


Well, I suppose you are assuming that the BP data are reliable? 1:25 perhaps with Saudi Aramco but certainly not in the good ole' USA. Check out books by Heinberg, Leggett, and Deffeyes and you will see multiple reliable references to EROEI in the USA of 1:10 at best. Just because EROEI is positive doesn't mean there is an ECONOMICAL justification to produce. Check out EROEI.com...
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Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Tue 29 Jan 2008, 21:05:50

--> Reuters <--

--> DOE News Release <--
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby killJOY » Tue 29 Jan 2008, 21:37:42

from the article:

Through 2050, the North Slope COULD yield up to 36 billion barrels of oil and 137 trillion cubic feet of natural gas UNDER OPTIMISTIC ASSUMPTIONS, the Energy Department said.


emphases mine.



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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby cipi604 » Tue 29 Jan 2008, 21:39:41

Great, one more year.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby MD » Tue 29 Jan 2008, 22:03:35

It won't be long before it will be political suicide to oppose exploiting that resource.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby gampy » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 08:17:48

Well, perhaps the US can start destroying some of it's own territory to pay for their population's oil consumption, instead of destroying other countries' environment. Seems fair.

I guess when northern Alberta is maxed out, and and Mexico gives up the ghost, the environmental lobby will not have as much leverage.

What kind of oil does the north slope have? Good stuff? Light crude?
Or a mix of light and heavy?

Are the oil companies thinking of investing up there right away? Or are they too heavily invested in Alberta, Iraq, Nigeria?

Waiting for the right climate to lobby their puppets in D.C.?

I dunno, I don't see the big deal about drilling for oil up there. It's not as if they are going to scraping off the boreal forest, and making lakes of poisonous sludge like they do in Canada.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 30 Jan 2008, 08:31:42

MD wrote:It won't be long before it will be political suicide to oppose exploiting that resource.


I dunno, I have been saying that for four years as I watched prices climb and it hasn't happened yet. I know at some point the consumers will start screaming and Congress will open everything in sight, but when?
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Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 21:19:01

Seems like there's a lot of interest in the Chukchi Sea portion of this.

--> Reuters <--

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the environmental lawsuits.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby TheDude » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 22:21:26

If all assumptions were to occur, an additional 36 billion barrels of oil and 137 trillion cubic feet of natural gas would be added over current reserve estimates. This result would help limit oil imports and increase America's energy security.


Image

That's 68 years at current US NG consumption. They talk of 35 Tcf recoverable though - think that's just Prudhoe Bay, or they're pinning their hopes on further exploration. Lotza gas - oil finds are predicated on revenues from the gas it seems.

Found an activist website that wants to keep the pipeline within Alaska. God knows how long they could use it.

Alaska Gas Line

Alaskans have a great deal at stake; our Anchorage, Mat-su and Peninsula supplies of natural gas are in decline. Without the natural gas pipeline from the North Slope, we may face a serious shortage by 2010. New supplies are needed to continue to produce electricity, for industry and for heating. If the pipeline route to Cook Inlet is chosen, we will continue to enjoy plentiful natural gas. In addition, the Cook Inlet route will provide natural gas to new areas.

If the pipeline branches off to Canada without an instate pipeline or goes to Valdez, South Central utility consumers will have to foot the bill for a Multi-Million Dollar spur line. Alaskan natural gas should fuel Alaskan business and warm Alaskan homes.


The Canadian pipeline proposals head south through Yukon/BC. Don't know why they don't hook up with the proposed MacKenzie River Delta line - too rugged terrain? ANWR? The Delta has a piddling 6 tcf but they're ready to spend 8 billion on the line anyway.

Image
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 22:32:07

TheDude wrote:
If all assumptions were to occur, an additional 36 billion barrels of oil and 137 trillion cubic feet of natural gas would be added over current reserve estimates. This result would help limit oil imports and increase America's energy security.


Image

That's 68 years at current US NG consumption.

According to the EIA, US natural gas consumption in 2006 was 21.6 trillion cubic feet. So that would only represent about 6.3 years. Unless you meant something else.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 22:42:04

Why does everyone always turn each discovery into a reserve/consumption ratio?
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 22:59:57

Tyler_JC wrote:Why does everyone always turn each discovery into a reserve/consumption ratio?

Dunno. Must be the fashionable thing to do. :)
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 23:33:55

Oil-Finder wrote:
Tyler_JC wrote:Why does everyone always turn each discovery into a reserve/consumption ratio?

Dunno. Must be the fashionable thing to do. :)


You and I know exactly why they do it.

They do it to dismiss the value of any individual reserve.

Just like they dismiss every single alternative energy source because it doesn't fix 100% of the problem and how they dismiss every single action any individual takes because it doesn't solve every single one of society's problem.

And yet all of these small steps added together somehow don't matter.

Apparently in order for the optimists to be right, we have to produce a cornucopia. And if we do, we get called Cornucopians. :roll:

This forum is a joke...
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby pup55 » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 23:42:48

Through 2050, the North Slope could yield up to 36 billion barrels of oil and 137 trillion cubic feet of natural gas under optimistic assumptions, the Energy Department said.

That would be enough to meet current U.S. oil demand for about five years and natural gas for a year and a half, but some major obstacles stand in the way of hitting those goals.


Per the Reuters article above.

The following is from the actual report, cited by the article:

In the short term, 2005 to 2015, exploration efforts are forecast to result in the addition of about 2.9 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil and 12 trillion cubic feet of economically recoverable gas.

(snip)

In summary the potential for additional reserves growth from currently producing fields is 5.0 to 6.0 BBO (3.0 to 4.0 BBO from the viscous, heavy oil fields and 2.0 BBO from the conventional oil fields) with the great bulk of this production post-2015.

2-151



In the long term, 2015 to 2050, exploration success and development is expected to involve activities in all five sub-provinces under the optimistic assumptions and is estimated to total 28 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil and 125 trillion cubic feet of economically recoverable gas.


At the $50/bbl and $60/bbl price tracks all projects at 10%, 15%, 20%, and 30% discount rates are economic.
section 3-127

Development of these fields should provide production rates of about 900,000 BOPD until about 2015.
3-154

The investment required by industry to achieve the forecast production is estimated to be over $15 billion dollars (then current dollars). This does not include the cost for construction of the AGP system. The operating expenses are estimated to be about $90 billion (then current dollars).
3-155

The largest potential reserves growth will probably occur in the viscous, heavy oil fields. The current estimate of economically recoverable reserves is between 1.155 and1.630 BBO (Table 2.7).


The Full 479 page report

This is actually a pretty interesting report. The report was "issued" last August, no telling why it was "announced" Jan 29, which is the dateline on the Reuters article. Part of the project is to rework existing holes, some new development contingent on the construction of the new pipeline, and most is outside of ANWR.

They give pool-by-pool production estimates and decline curves, for those who wish to see what a real decline curve looks like. A lot of this work is to slow the decline of current projects.

There is some detailed financial analysis on a lot of the individual projects, and at current pricing, most are viable at current discount/interest rates. This suggests a fundamental assumption that hyperinflation will not hit, which makes me feel a lot better.

Some of the volume is derived from the famed "reserves growth" assumptions, based on previous experience in the area, and are also contingent on certain economic conditions. There is some conversation to this effect on page 2-150 which says the original Prudhoe URR was about 12 gb, and it grew to 19 or so through the life of the project.

Anyhow, the impression that there is some huge, previously unknown oilfield out there, and that there is an immense flood of new oil imminently ready to be pumped is not supported by the actual report. A lot of the volume in the short term is arrived at the hard way, by smaller fields and slowing the decline of current fields, and amounts to less than 1 mbpd if, and it's a big if, the operators choose to do the projects, versus some other more interesting investments that they may have elsewhere.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 06 Feb 2008, 23:43:13

Tyler_JC wrote:
Oil-Finder wrote:
Tyler_JC wrote:Why does everyone always turn each discovery into a reserve/consumption ratio?

Dunno. Must be the fashionable thing to do. :)


You and I know exactly why they do it.

They do it to dismiss the value of any individual reserve.


That's silly. It is a useful way to express the quantity in temporal terms. The problem is in either what is not considered or in assumptions made for the calculation- often related to the growth rate in reserves v consumption. For example, when they say there are 300 years of coal left in the US. The assumption of that being at some constant year's production is not insignificant. When a particular project's output expressed temporally and it only totals 6 or so years, that is interesting to know but needs to be looked at in the context of overall possible future production predictions. :P
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby TheDude » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 00:07:47

And the winner is Royal Dutch Shell.

Shell Is High Bidder to Drill for Oil and Gas Off Alaska

By BLOOMBERG NEWS
Published: February 7, 2008

ANCHORAGE (Bloomberg News) — Royal Dutch Shell, the oil company, offered to pay $2.1 billion in an oil and natural gas lease sale, becoming the biggest bidder for the rights in the Chukchi Sea off the coast of Alaska.

The Interior Department’s Mineral Management Service received $2.7 billion in winning bids for 488 tracts. The sale, a record for Alaska, generated 667 bids totaling $3.4 billion for the tracts on 2.7 million acres. The previous record was $2 billion in a 1982 sale in the Beaufort Sea.

The highest single bid was also from Shell, which offered $105.3 million on one tract.

“We see this as a proven, prolific hydrocarbon basin,” said Annell Bay, Shell’s vice president for exploration for the Americas.

ConocoPhillips had the second-highest accepted bids, totaling $506 million.


The gas pipeline will cost something like $42 billion and take 10 years - lotsa royalties for Alaska and Canada. Just in time for US NG reserves to peter out. Maybe if they drag their feet long enough my notion of heading due east will be considered - or they'll decide to LNG it all? Inneresting, had no idea so much stranded gas was up there.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby TheDude » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 00:25:16

Tyler_JC wrote:This forum is a joke...


Stop posting then.

I'm a "Moderate," BTW. I'm interested in discussing these resources and the reality of the situation we're in, instead of putting people in boxes or praying for "Doom" or "Corn." Boring!

Thanks for the added info, Pup.

My Bad about the 21.6 tcf. Looked at the wrong table.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby Oil-Finder » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 00:47:13

pup55 wrote:
Development of these fields should provide production rates of about 900,000 BOPD until about 2015.
3-154

According to the EIA, total Alaska production in November was 740,000 bpd, so adding 900,000 would be a nice boost.

pup55 wrote:This is actually a pretty interesting report. The report was "issued" last August, no telling why it was "announced" Jan 29, which is the dateline on the Reuters article.

Jan, 29 was also the date of the DOE press release. I was wondering about that too. Whatever.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 01:28:32

pup55 wrote:Anyhow, the impression that there is some huge, previously unknown oilfield out there, and that there is an immense flood of new oil imminently ready to be pumped is not supported by the actual report. A lot of the volume in the short term is arrived at the hard way, by smaller fields and slowing the decline of current fields, and amounts to less than 1 mbpd if, and it's a big if, the operators choose to do the projects, versus some other more interesting investments that they may have elsewhere.


Ahh!, as usual the voice of reason.

I get the feeling there is a lot of what I like to call "rehash" going on. It's not that there won't be new finds of oil, but a lot of this "news" sure seems to be just twists on old finds and plays.

A lot of this is coming from folks who seem to want to believe that things will continue along their merry way for quite some time despite the signals right in front of our faces. Price is one and supply is another.

I see many folks pointing to estimates of reserves in so far non produced areas. We all know by now, if you have been paying attention and have done some research, that things dont always go down as planned. Ive come to the conclusion that unless significant amounts of oil and natural gas get brought on line very rapidly
You will never see a lot of these conjectured reserves numbers materialize. We wont have enough time as regular oil prices increase dramatically without new, very large, sources coming on line SOON.

I think that is my fear and it has been with PO for about the last year or so. Status quo wont cut it and we are running out of time.
Its not so much a doomer's outlook rather than reality. Things have to go too perfectly for all this supposed oil to get produced.

I dont think a lot of folks are putting 2 and 2 together when it comes to price and what it does to rates of return and extraction. At some point the price is going to cause projects to be either delayed or canceled altogether. I do believe it's happening already.
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Re: Alaska North Slope may hold 36 bln bbl oil - US DOE

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 07 Feb 2008, 01:52:48

OK some of the stuff I know from experience...there is a ton of oil yet to be found in Alaska. Much of it will be in somewhat difficult reservoirs (low permeability). All of it will be extremely difficult to find. All of it will be extremely difficult to develope. All of it will be extremely expensive to produce.
To put things in perspective for those of you who have never been there think of the John Carpenter movie Thing. The weather you see is a good day in the winter. There are extended times where you have to stop drilling because it is so cold the metal parts such as the kelly will crack.
Peak oil is not about how much we have left out there, it is about the timing in which we can retrieve it and how that matches up against worldwide depletion.
I'm not a doomer by any stretch of imagination but I do realize the the timeframe for anything new coming out of Alaska is 2015 even if we discovered it in 2009....which means we are basically ready to drill it today because of the timelines that are imposed by access to most of the area. In my model 2015 just extends the bumpy plateau...and most people here think I'm a cornocopian.
My view is Alaska or the Arctic Islands have no chance of changing when the peak will occur.
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