[ROCKMAN]

Obviously I can't predict how the president-elect or Rex will interact with Putin. But I've been the fly on the wall when some very powerful folks (including a few billionaires as well as many CEO's) were in negotiation situations. Watched them shake hands, smile, exchange pleasantries like long lost siblings, etc. And knew exactly how many despised each other. But that is not the demeanor one takes when trying to cut a deal. Cutting deals sometimes with both sides understanding one was getting screwed.

Verbal gutter fighting has gotten so pervasive in politics apparent many in the public expect the same approach between global leaders. It's not like President Obama has told Putin, Assad, the N Korean asshole or any other global piece of sh*t to go f*ck themselves. LOL.

[Tanada]

Obviously I can't predict how the president-elect or Rex will interact with Putin. But I've been the fly on the wall when some very powerful folks (including a few billionaires as well as many CEO's) were in negotiation situations. Watched them shake hands, smile, exchange pleasantries like long lost siblings, etc. And knew exactly how many despised each other. But that is not the demeanor one takes when trying to cut a deal. Cutting deals sometimes with both sides understanding one was getting screwed.

Verbal gutter fighting has gotten so pervasive in politics apparent many in the public expect the same approach between global leaders. It's not like President Obama has told Putin, Assad, the N Korean asshole or any other global piece of sh*t to go f*ck themselves. LOL.

Thank you! In a former life I spent a couple years as a Union Steward involved in contract negotiations. In the room with the company I was sweetness and light and butter wouldn't have melted in my mouth without permission. Back talking to the crew it was, different.

I don't care if you are talking about buttering up the boss or negotiating a nuclear disarmament deal, the key to successful human negotiation is sweetness and light, while being firm and immobile on key issues and giving ground in throw away issues. Anyone who goes into negotiations with nothing to give up has little chance of success.

[Subjectivist]

Senator McCain is out shooting his mouth off again about how wonderful it is for America to support NATO.

The United States won't waver in its commitment to NATO and Baltic security, Sen. John McCain said Tuesday in Estonia, where he's seeking to soothe anxiety over President-elect Donald Trump's rhetoric.

McCain told reporters that he and Estonia's leaders discussed the outcome of American election, which he conceded came as a surprise after Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton polled so well in the weeks leading up to the vote.

"But I am convinced and certain that our relationship and [...] the American relationship with NATO, will remain the same," he said.

"I think the presence of the American troops here in Estonia is a signal that we believe in what Ronald Reagan believed, and that is peace through strength," McCain added from Tallinn, the Estonian capital. "And the best way to prevent Russian misbehavior by having a credible, strong military and a strong NATO alliance."

While on the campaign trail, Trump raised alarm bells in Estonia, Lithuania, and Latvia when he suggested the U.S. would not necessarily defend new NATO members in the Baltics in the event of a Russian attack. He told The New York Times that it would depend on whether those countries had "fulfilled their obligations to us" in terms of financial contributions to the NATO alliance.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/joh ... to-n700451

[dissident]

We need war, war, war on Russia!

This pus bag and similar thinkers may just get what they crave. But they won't like it.

[Tuike]

Nato might soon have new members as Finland and Sweden joins Nato. Media ja politicans are not talking here should we join Nato, but how fast can we join.

[Newfie]

Any reaction to Russias push back comments today?

[vtsnowedin]

Russia says a nuclear-free Baltic region would no longer be possible if Finland and Sweden become NATO members, alluding to additional nuclear deployments in Europe.

“If Sweden and Finland join NATO, the length of the alliance’s land borders with the Russian Federation will more than double. Naturally, these borders will have to be strengthened,” Dmitry Medvedev, former president and deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council, wrote on his official Telegram channel Thursday.

Russia will have to “seriously strengthen the grouping of land forces and air defense, deploy significant naval forces in the waters of the Gulf of Finland. In this case, it will no longer be possible to talk about any nuclear-free status of the Baltic - the balance must be restored,” he said.

A predictable response. What does it matter where the Russians deploy their ICBMs?
And a build up of Russian land forces of the caliber of those failing in Ukraine should not keep anybody up at night. And navel forces in the Gulf of Finland? That's is a good place for them with every square yard within range of missiles from either the Swedish or Finnish coast. Also a wonderful place to operate submarines with an average depth of just 38 meters so easy to recover subs and even sailors when they are sunk or run aground.

[Tuike]

Any reaction to Russias push back comments today?

We already know Russians don't like when Nato gets new members. Planning to join Nato continues.

[Plantagenet]

Any reaction to Russias push back comments today?

We already know Russians don't like when Nato gets new members. Planning to join Nato continues.

Sweden has a substantial military and would be a useful addition to NATO.

Finland also has a highly capable military.

Finnish_Defence_Forces

Putin is starting to seem like a singularly stupid person.....his attack on Ukraine is actually making NATO stronger.

You'd think Putin would notice that things aren't going as he planned and change course.....but Poootie just keeps doubling down on the same failed strategy.


Finland has a highly capable military and so does Sweden. Adding Finland and Sweden will greatly strengthen NATO.

Cheers!

[Newfie]

Ego is an extremely powerful and addictive drug.

Far too many obvious examples to refute.

[Tuike]

There's now a joint statement of Finnish president and prime minister in Finnish presidents home page, which says that Finland must seek Nato membership ASAP. There are rumors that Finland and Sweden will drop some mail to Jens Stoltenberg's mailbox as early as next monday.
Finnish President tells Russia 'You caused this' as he signs security pact with UK -youtube

[Tuike]

Yes! This is it! Finland and Sweden have now both formally applied to Nato membership in unison. Rot in hell, Putin the great conqueror and 4D geopolitical chess player! Watch the event in Nato's Youtube page: NATO Secretary General meeting with Ambassadors of Finland and Sweden to NATO, 18 MAY 2022 -youtube

[Tuike]

Turkey formally approves Finland’s NATO membership, in setback for Russia -cnbc
A few months prior to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, in October 2021, Finnish popular support for joining the alliance was at 24%, according to local polls. By November 2022, it had soared to 78%.

There's only a few days of paperwork left and then Finland is formally a Nato member. Sweden still has to appease Erdogan before they can join.

[Plantagenet]

Turkey formally approves Finland’s NATO membership, in setback for Russia -cnbc
A few months prior to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, in October 2021, Finnish popular support for joining the alliance was at 24%, according to local polls. By November 2022, it had soared to 78%.

Congrats to Finland.



Finland is well known to have some of the best artillery in the world. Any chance Finland will now share some of the equipment with Ukraine?

NATO has a once-in-a-generation chance to help an innocent country under attack by Russia. If Ukraine wins it will seriously degrade and defang Russian military capabilities and maybe even help trigger off a regime change in Russia.

Cheers!

[Newfie]

I believe Finnland has been a contributor to Ukraine.

There are additional notable events.

Finland and Sweeden are going to cooperate to standardize their infantry weapons, have joint air operations, and join with other Baltic states to have a regional defence force outside NATO.

[Tuike]

Here we go! Deposition of Finland's instrument of accession to the North Atlantic Treaty, 04 APR 2023 -youtube

[Plantagenet]

Putin says he started the war in Ukraine because he didn't want NATO on Russia's borders.

But Putin's attack on Ukraine caused the Finns to decide to end their 70 year long policy of staying outside of NATO.

So Putin has totally failed....Putin's own crazy actions caused the Finns to join NATO, and the result is NATO is now right there on Russia's borders.


Putin's own stupid decision to attack Ukraine has now put NATO on Russia's borders

Cheers!

[theluckycountry]

In 1809, the Russian Empire seized Finland from Sweden in the Finnish War. Finland entered a personal union with the Russian Empire as a grand duchy with extensive autonomy. During the period of Russian rule the country generally prospered. On 6 December 1917, during the Russian Civil War, the Finnish parliament (Suomen Eduskunta) declared independence from Russia...

After WWII the whole map of Europe was re-drafted and after WWIII it will be re-drafted again. Nation states come and go all the time, it's just that the time-frames are different from twitter time frames. I see no way out now but for a nuclear war, it's just a matter of whether it's Russia or the US that pushes the buttons first.

https://archive.org/details/childrenOfHiroshima1952 [ 13:20 ]

[Newfie]

Lucky,

I am more hopeful.

For one thing there is China. A general nuclear exchange would really screw with Chinas economy in a huge manner. Even if they were not directly involved they would have all kinds of fall out, literal and metamorphic. China has nothing to win in a general nuclear exchange, and much to loose.

Given how uniformly major Western leaders have aligned against Russia, and that cautious and accommodating Finland has now joined the Western alliance, it seems that Western leadership has high confidence in Ukraines ability to win, and win big.

I don’t know what they are betting on, and maybe that is a good thing. Maybe they know Putin is terminal? Maybe there is a Western friendly line of succession in the works? Maybe they have agreed that NATO should join the spring offensive? Maybe they know the Russian military is on the verge of collapse?

What is clear is that the egocentric politicians are ALL all in on a short term Ukraine win. These guys are betting their political future. That is very dear to them and they would not make the wager without certainty.

[Plantagenet]

What is clear is that the egocentric politicians are ALL all in on a short term Ukraine win. These guys are betting their political future. That is very dear to them and they would not make the wager without certainty.

Clearly there is going to be a Ukrainian counter-attack on the Russian forces in occupied Ukraine in the spring.

If the Russian forces collapse and start to retreat back towards Moscow, it will cause chaos in Russia and there is an excellent chance the Putin regime will collapse.

Already at Bakhmut the Russians have had to set up a second line of soldiers whose job is to shoot the Russian soldiers in the first line if they waver and start to retreat.

When the Ukrainians launch their spring offense I'm looking for the moment that the first line of Russians starts to flee....and when the second line then joins them in running away the whole Russian army could collapse and start heading for Moscow.

Thats how regime change happened in Russia in 1917 ......and there's no reason it couldn't happen again.


Russian soldiers abandoned their lines in WWI and fled back to Moscow ......and they brought regime change to Moscow with them....

Cheers!