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THE Monsanto Thread (merged)

Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Cynus » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 15:35:44

I am wondering what you mean by "usual left values"?
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 16:13:04

Lets say some more or less successful attempts to ensure more equitable wealth distribution, protecting/promoting rights of blue collar workforce, and aiming at efficient public services like health and education are usual left values.
Some promotion of collectivism is also example of such value, albeit experiences with Soviet block and some other nations discredited that objection in part of left wing groups.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 19:10:43

outcast wrote:
You have no idea of what you speak. None.



And I assume you've got a few youtube videos that provide "proof"?


You're just ignorant and lazy. The info is out there, you just have to do your research. Until you do, you're ignorant and lazy.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Tue 17 Mar 2009, 19:15:24

Here is an anecdote from a Texas cotton farmer. They have to plant their cotton with an edge of specified width, entirely of a specific Monsanto genetically modified cotton seed. It is modified to repel pests. But the catch is that Monsanto is allowed to inspect (and they do inspect) your farm to verify that you have planted a hedge of Monsanto cotton around the outside your crop. If you don't comply, the state of Texas shuts your farm down.

Why is a single corporation inspecting private individual's farms with the police authority to shut them down?
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby outcast » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 01:55:52

manu wrote:
outcast wrote:
You have no idea of what you speak. None.



And I assume you've got a few youtube videos that provide "proof"?


Maybe you should watch "Seeds of Destruction".
Monsanto is trying to take over the food supply. The world food supply. The U.S.Goberment is 100% behind them.
If you haven't figured this out by now, maybe you have been eating to many of their gentically engineered crops.



I don't have a computer with working sound, mind telling me what they supposedly plan to do after they accomplish that?

You're just ignorant and lazy. The info is out there, you just have to do your research. Until you do, you're ignorant and lazy.


You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.


Here is an anecdote from a Texas cotton farmer. They have to plant their cotton with an edge of specified width, entirely of a specific Monsanto genetically modified cotton seed. It is modified to repel pests. But the catch is that Monsanto is allowed to inspect (and they do inspect) your farm to verify that you have planted a hedge of Monsanto cotton around the outside your crop. If you don't comply, the state of Texas shuts your farm down.

Why is a single corporation inspecting private individual's farms with the police authority to shut them down?


Not that I agree with their business practices but it sounds more like an overreaching business contract. The fact is that is part of their term of service for use of their product. Microsoft has been doing stuff like this to people who resell their software as well as large scale users (like schools) for a long time now. Nothing new.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 02:45:18

The all-seeing eye of Horus. Some powerful orders feel very strong ties to the past, to Egypt and the Holy Land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence


Interestingly, the all-seeing eye is also the logo for the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency Information Awareness Office:

Image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informatio ... ess_Office
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 08:43:22

outcast wrote:
You're just ignorant and lazy. The info is out there, you just have to do your research. Until you do, you're ignorant and lazy.


1. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.

2. Not that I agree with their business practices but it sounds more like an overreaching business contract. The fact is that is part of their term of service for use of their product. Microsoft has been doing stuff like this to people who resell their software as well as large scale users (like schools) for a long time now. Nothing new.



1. Oh yes, I can't wait to spoon feed you everything you can find on your own, but are too lazy to do so! I'm not going to regurgitate all the research and material I've read just for you. Your refusal to do anything is completely lazy. Your way of thinking keeps people ignorant and is irresponsible.

2. Business contract? The state of Texas requires the farmers to plant the Monsanto seed. This is a business contract how, exactly? This is state regulation that requires the use of a single corporation's product.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 09:21:13

Jotapay wrote: The state of Texas requires the farmers to plant the Monsanto seed.



I've probably missed it somehow, but I can't find the Texas state law to that effect.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 09:31:17

Ludi wrote:
Jotapay wrote: The state of Texas requires the farmers to plant the Monsanto seed.



I've probably missed it somehow, but I can't find the Texas state law to that effect.


I would be interested in that as well. It would be quite amazing if that was the law in Texas. Also, what is the penalty for violation ?
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 09:36:41

Ludi wrote:
Jotapay wrote: The state of Texas requires the farmers to plant the Monsanto seed.



I've probably missed it somehow, but I can't find the Texas state law to that effect.


My girlfriend, who works for the state of Texas in downtown Austin for one of her jobs, works with several women who own fairly large farms and ranches outside of town. Their husbands work the farm full-time. It will take me a day or two to get the details from her, but I'll get them.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 09:53:07

I don't know what "certified seeds" are but there are publications at this link to the Texas Dept Agriculture that lists certified seed. It includes Monsanto and many others. But, still does not say as far as I can tell that any of these are required to be used under penalty of law, just that they have been certified.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 10:12:38

She specifically told me that their farm had to be inspected by Monsanto to ensure they were planting a border with GM Monsanto seed. I'm waiting on a reply from her right now, so we'll get more details.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 10:21:54

Jotapay wrote:She specifically told me that their farm had to be inspected by Monsanto to ensure they were planting a border with GM Monsanto seed. I'm waiting on a reply from her right now, so we'll get more details.


Monsanto is very agressive in protecting their patented seeds, so maybe she has signed some agreement with Monsanto for some part of her operation and they have requirements they are levying on her. I wouldn't doubt (based on what I have read, not personal experience) that once you enter into an agreement with Monsanto that they try to get all up in your business.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby pablonite » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 10:50:17

outcast, consider the following hypothetical scenario...

Say you are a small 5th generation farmer but haven't got around to buying your seeds from Monsanto or any of the other GM seed producers yet because you seem to be doing just fine without them, however your neighbour did.

One day you get a call from a Monsanto lawyer claiming that YOU are using their patented "round up ready" seed and they can prove it...he advises you to seek legal advice immediately.

Now just forget about "America" for a minute and imagine this happening on a global scale, imagine just how successful this strategy might be in a country like India?

Farmers in America are getting worried, farmers in India can't even comprehend what is happening.

But to make even a bigger point, just how many small farmers are even left in America?

Dude, it is just hard for some people to get their head around just how big the beast is, it can get laws passed, it can summon huge armies of lawyers to enforce those laws and it really doesn't care if you understand it or not.

Many suffer from what is known as cognitive dissonance when trying to get their head around things like this but keep working at it, the life you save may be your own.

Oh, it took me all of 10 seconds to find a link like this one...

http://www.keepmainefree.org/whosues.html

But don't hold your breath waiting for the mainstream media to bring this little problem to the collective conscience. Perhaps taking a closer look at mainstream media might be the best place for someone like you to start. Its a tough pill to swallow but your interest in these posts means you have the potential to figure it out, most people just turn off.

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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby outcast » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 11:59:43

1. Oh yes, I can't wait to spoon feed you everything you can find on your own, but are too lazy to do so! I'm not going to regurgitate all the research and material I've read just for you. Your refusal to do anything is completely lazy. Your way of thinking keeps people ignorant and is irresponsible.
2. Business contract? The state of Texas requires the farmers to plant the Monsanto seed. This is a business contract how, exactly? This is state regulation that requires the use of a single corporation's product.

1. Providing claims without, when asked, providing proof is a fallacy.
2. Well according to some others on this site that reg doesn't exist.
One day you get a call from a Monsanto lawyer claiming that YOU are using their patented "round up ready" seed and they can prove it...he advises you to seek legal advice immediately.

Like I said, I don't agree with their business practices. Although this is one of the reasons for the terminator gene in GM crops IIRC.
Now just forget about "America" for a minute and imagine this happening on a global scale, imagine just how successful this strategy might be in a country like India?

I'm sure they would like not having to poison themselves with dangerous pesticides to keep pests from destroying their crops. But really, this is business. They want a large percentage of the food market because..surprise, that's what their main business is. Welcome to capitalism.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 14:53:07

outcast wrote:1. Providing claims without, when asked, providing proof is a fallacy.

You seriously want me to prove the following statement? Seriously?
outcast wrote:So this quickly evolved from a "the evil coporations are out to destroy us" conspiracy theory into a "the occultists are out to get us" conspiracy theory.

Are you nuts? Where would you like me to start, pray tell?
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 16:16:54

outcast wrote:I'm sure they would like not having to poison themselves with dangerous pesticides to keep pests from destroying their crops. .

Of course there are ways of doing that which don't require either pesticides or GM crops.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Micki » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 19:46:32

Article in Worldnetdaily;
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php? ... geId=92002

House Resolution 875, or the Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009, was introduced by Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., in February. DeLauro's husband, Stanley Greenburg, conducts research for Monsanto – the world's leading producer of herbicides and genetically engineered seed.

DeLauro's act has 39 co-sponsors and was referred to the House Agriculture Committee on Feb. 4. It calls for the creation of a Food Safety Administration to allow the government to regulate food production at all levels – and even mandates property seizure, fines of up to $1 million per offense and criminal prosecution for producers, manufacturers and distributors who fail to comply with regulations.


And Thai farmers are still trying to fight the implementation of the Beast system where the following plants are used instead of chemical pestizides; neem, citronella grass, tumeric, ginger, Chinese ginger, African marigold, Siam weed or bitter bush, tea seed cake, chilli, Chinese celery, ringworn bush, glory lily and stemona
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Govt-Call ... 42231.html

When is backyard farming of sport fishing going to be outlawed?
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby Micki » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 19:56:39

Article in worldnetdaily

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92002
House Resolution 875, or the Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009, was introduced by Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., in February. DeLauro's husband, Stanley Greenburg, conducts research for Monsanto – the world's leading producer of herbicides and genetically engineered seed.

DeLauro's act has 39 co-sponsors and was referred to the House Agriculture Committee on Feb. 4. It calls for the creation of a Food Safety Administration to allow the government to regulate food production at all levels – and even mandates property seizure, fines of up to $1 million per offense and criminal prosecution for producers, manufacturers and distributors who fail to comply with regulations


Meanwhile thai farmers are trying to fight the implementation of the Beast system that prohibits them from using traditional plants and herbs as alternative to chemical pesticides.
Prohibited plants include;
neem, citronella grass, tumeric, ginger, Chinese ginger, African marigold, Siam weed or bitter bush, tea seed cake, chilli, Chinese celery, ringworn bush, glory lily and stemona.
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Govt-Called-Cancel-Rules-Listing-H-t242231.html


Fact file on GM crops;
- the US alone plants over 50% of the world's GM crops
- the area of GM crops being grown has actually fallen in Europe every year since 2005
- none of the GM crops on the market are modified for increased yield potential *some studies show GM crops reduce yield *disease-tolerant GM crops are practically non-existent

There is still hope that the implementation of the beast system can be fought as long as farmers can't get tricked into thinking they will be more profitable with GM crops

EDITED: Link to Fact File: http://www.grassrootsnetroots.org/artic ... _17283.cfm
Last edited by Micki on Thu 19 Mar 2009, 00:41:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monsanto bills set to destroy organic farming

Unread postby outcast » Wed 18 Mar 2009, 21:34:08

Of course there are ways of doing that which don't require either pesticides or GM crops.

But nothing that generates enough consistent yields, otherwise they would do it.
- none of the GM crops on the market are modified for increased yield potential *some studies show GM crops reduce yield *disease-tolerant GM crops are practically non-existent
Don't be so sure
The Chinese have already developed genetically engineered rice strains with bred-in pest and disease resistance. They’re also experimenting with new nitrogen-efficient rice that needs only half as much fertiliser to get top yields. The new rice thus costs much less to grow, and emits far less greenhouse gas per ton of rice produced. They also say biotech rice “escapes” will not be a problem, since they’ve pre-programmed the rice to be hyper-sensitive to a particular herbicide.
China already permits the growing of genetically engineered peppers, tomatoes, and papaya, and much of its huge cotton crop is genetically modified to resist pests. Biotech has overcome the deadly ringspot virus, which severely hampers papaya production in much of the world, and provided virus resistance for tomatoes and peppers. Another genetic modification permits Chinese tomatoes to survive the longer shipping delays caused by the poor Chinese roads and lack of refrigeration.

Disease resistant crops non existent? I'm calling BS on that in general.
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