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THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 15 Jul 2014, 23:32:32

Sixstrings wrote:It's like a northern Ireland thing. It's complicated. Neither side is all good guy.

What's actually amazing is how well they all get along, over there. Jews and arabs do live next to each other, sometimes on the same block or village.
Except the majority who were ethnically cleansed and their property stolen (the Jews prefer to call it "population exchange"):
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The nascent Israeli military deliberately pursued a policy of ethnically cleansing non-combatant Palestinians from Israeli-held territory, expelling about 720,000 of them in 1947-48, then locking them outside, bereft of their homes and farms and penniless.
Image
http://www.juancole.com/2014/07/palesti ... aking.html

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Same way you got your Florida real estate.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 16 Jul 2014, 19:23:18

Repent wrote:The guy's name is Aaron he is a young father, and four years ago all his video's we're 'marketed' out of his tiny trailer home. He is a computer programmer. He's aware of peak oil, and he's in our camp.


Well okay then, I'll take my Russian intel tinfoil hat off. :lol:

Slick production styles are just popular on youtube, regular people have gotten so good with that -- it's WHY infomercials work so well. It draws you in. People don't mean to do it, but these are actually propaganda tactics. Movies are dramatic and have the right music and editing and narration *for a reason*, it's to pull your strings, and draw you in on some other level besides rationality. That's why I immediately get suspicious with that stuff, it's the "RT style." It's on Foxnews too. It's propaganda tactics. And everyone on youtube talks that way now.

That's why Limbaugh was always so popular, he's got a great voice. That's how Glenn Beck draws so many in.

And that's fine -- this one-sided stuff, dramatically presented with hypnotic voiceovers and smart editing and music -- so long as you're looking at the other side, too, and actually *thinking*. It's like a Foxnews vs. Msnbc thing.

But anyhow I'd never poke at just some guy doing videos on his own, fair enough.

Your video is *food for thought* but just in general, I dislike how polarized all our information is becoming and we get our views from youtube and websites and we've just lost how it was in the old days, more objective professional journalism.

Personally, I can get a LOT of information about a place and what the deal is over there just by seeing regular people interviewed.

Like the Anthony Bourdain episode I mentioned. (good show btw) He sits down with a Palestinian family and they just talk, and they don't "hate Israelis" but yes there's tension.

One of the women talk about how her family is on the other side of the occupied territories and she can't ever see them because she can't get let across the border.

But you know Repent, these people do coexist and live together and it's not all black and white they all hate each other, it's not so simple as that.

Probably a good parallel would be racial tensions, in this country. We live together, and things just flare up sometimes.

US presidents have given up on the whole middle east peace thing, but there are some FAIR things Israel could be pushed hard on, like surely these people don't have to just be trapped forever and can't go visit a relative their whole life, 30 miles away or whatever.

But neither is the Palestinian side all right either. Israel really does have security issues and things to worry about.

They have tit-for-tat northern Ireland type violence, over there. We can differ on our opinions I just won't say one side is all right and the other all wrong.

And.. my values are about free speech and the core of what is in our declaration of independence and our constitutional rights, and that democracy really matters, don't go running off embracing tyranny because it's cool to be "anti-American" and "anti government." Our gov has issues, but it's madness to forget we're still better than most places.

That's the main point I keep driving at, if anyone is going to harp on about the US then just apply those same principles to other places. It's worse in Russia. It's worse in China. It's worse in Iran. And Hamas being all in charge of a place would be worse, too.

EDIT: don't know what I'm griping about, other than just a general beef about all these people who claim to know "the truth nobody else is telling you." Truth is in the middle, and that's the truth. :lol:
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 16 Jul 2014, 19:59:09

Keith_McClary wrote:Except the majority who were ethnically cleansed and their property stolen (the Jews prefer to call it "population exchange"):


So what are you saying there Keith, the Israeli Atlas could just shrug and it'll all go okay for them?

You really think that?

Do you even think Israel has a right to be there? And what's with "the jews," are you anti-semitic?

Folks -- if any of you really are anti-semites, then I would implore you to redirect that toward "banksters" in general. It's not just "the jews." It's the whole Martha's Vineyard crowd, the oligarchs, the elite in general.

We could go back and forth and argue about arabs and jews for eternity, it's the same as race over here in the US. It's just complicated. Israel needs to make some progress on it, but they also have a very real security concern in a very tough situation they've lived with forever.

And Israel sure as hell has a right to be there, if anyone disagrees with that then I'm not on the same page as you.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Wed 16 Jul 2014, 23:31:03

Slick production styles are just popular on youtube, regular people have gotten so good with that -- it's WHY infomercials work so well. It draws you in. People don't mean to do it, but these are actually propaganda tactics


They're are a lot of people 'awakening' to the truth. Many do not have slick production styles, the ones that don't are not as popular and are generally ignored.

Paradox man does a daily video at 5:55 AM each morning- is this slick ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La0h3Cg ... ilpage#t=1

Carey Wedler does a weekly, non slick report here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... jZaWMN#t=0

Ralph smart has yet another self produced weekly video- is this deceptive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... gEDr0I#t=0

People are waking up. Join the movement. End the genocides. Live again.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Lore » Thu 17 Jul 2014, 14:51:35

Israel just launched a ground invasion of Gaza!

Looks like a hot day in world affairs.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 18 Jul 2014, 01:12:52

Sixstrings wrote:Israel needs to make some progress on it, but they also have a very real security concern in a very tough situation they've lived with forever.
No, just since they invaded, ethnically cleansed and confiscated the Palestinians homes and farms.
Sixstrings wrote:And Israel sure as hell has a right to be there, if anyone disagrees with that then I'm not on the same page as you.
Just as much as you have a right to where you are. Fortunately (for you) you exterminated most of the natives and the ethnically cleansed survivors did not fight back much. But that could change, so keep rooting for the NeoNazis NeoCons.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 18 Jul 2014, 01:27:01

Sixstrings wrote:And what's with "the jews," are you anti-semitic?
And what's with "the Russians" - are you a Russophobe racist?

The Zionists demand "The right of Israel to exist as a Jewish State". Doesn't that mean the same as "All Jews are born with a superior entitlement to rule over Palestine because of their ancient genetic ancestry" ?

And somehow it is offensive to refer to this "State of the Jewish People" as "the Jews" ?
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 18 Jul 2014, 01:29:49

Maybe "stormcloudsgathering" is right. :?:

This new gaza invasion today.. it's definitely overkill for an incident starting with those 3 teenagers.

Seems like there's something bigger to it.

My brain can only handle understanding Ukraine, I'll leave this one to you guys.

And.. yes.. I don't what the Israelis are shooting up or how it's happening, but kids are dying and it's wrong.

Israel is a democracy, and at least they have a Left wing and they have many liberals and aren't all bad -- but they've got that fascist "go in and shoot 'em up Putin Chechnya style" thing going on too.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 18 Jul 2014, 01:32:24

Keith_McClary wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:And what's with "the jews," are you anti-semitic?
And what's with "the Russians" - are you a Russophobe racist?

...

And somehow it is offensive to refer to this "State of the Jewish People" as "the Jews" ?


You're actually right Keith, I won't say "the Russians" anymore, that's Dr. Strangelove cold war flashback.

So I'll drop that, and you drop "the Jews." (it's just not cool, "the Jews" is a dogwhistle everyone knows that so if you aren't anti-semetic then I'd say don't say "the Jews.")

It's same thing as "the Blacks." You just don't do that, the "the" in there, it's dehumanizing and you are right about "the Russians" it's the same thing.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 18 Jul 2014, 02:25:09

Sixstrings wrote:
Keith_McClary wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:And what's with "the jews," are you anti-semitic?
And what's with "the Russians" - are you a Russophobe racist?

...

And somehow it is offensive to refer to this "State of the Jewish People" as "the Jews" ?


You're actually right Keith, I won't say "the Russians" anymore, that's Dr. Strangelove cold war flashback.

So I'll drop that, and you drop "the Jews." (it's just not cool, "the Jews" is a dogwhistle everyone knows that so if you aren't anti-semetic then I'd say don't say "the Jews.")


It's same thing as "the Blacks." You just don't do that, the "the" in there, it's dehumanizing and you are right about "the Russians" it's the same thing.
How about "the Americans" blew away poor Afghan kids gathering firewood, or "the Americans" did CollateralMurder, or "the Palestinians" resisted ethnic cleansing by fighting back with rockets?
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 19 Jul 2014, 00:25:49

Despite the title, this is mostly about the Kurds and Turkey:
While Iraq burns, Isis takes advantage in Syria (BBC)
By Michael Stephens & Sofia Barbarani
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:03:46

CNN reassigns reporter after 'scum' tweet
NEW YORK — CNN has pulled reporter Diana Magnay out of the Middle East after she referred to a group of Israelis who had allegedly threatened her while reporting on Gaza as "scum" in a tweet.

Magnay was reporting live on the air as a group watched the Israeli bombardment of Gaza around her. After the report was over, she wrote on Twitter: "Israelis on hill above Sderot cheer as bombs land on #gaza; threaten to 'destroy our car if I say a word wrong.' Scum."

CNN said in a statement Friday that Magnay was referring specifically to those who threatened her. CNN said the network and Magnay are sorry if anyone was offended.

The network said Magnay has been reassigned to Moscow.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Withnail » Sat 19 Jul 2014, 15:59:54

Sixstrings wrote:
My brain can only handle understanding Ukraine, I'll leave this one to you guys.



No offence but judging by your posts on the Ukraine topic I see only regurgitated misinformation from US media.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 22 Jul 2014, 00:03:05

Check out the bit between 15:20 to 17:20
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV%20Show ... 475804961/
They don't speculate about the religion or ethnicity of the sniper. Care to guess?

BTW, the first 15 minutes is blatant rightist Eastern Euro propaganda. The CBC is dominated by them.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby BobInget » Fri 25 Jul 2014, 16:39:21

AMMAN, JORDAN—Arriving in the Middle East today for top-level negotiations with Palestinian and Israeli officials, a man who could not even devise a way to beat George W. Bush in a head-to-head vote will spend the next several days attempting to bring a peaceful resolution to the most intractable global conflict of the modern era, State Department sources confirmed. “We are confident that [this person who managed to win just 19 states against George W. Bush, even in the midst of two highly unpopular and costly foreign wars] will be able to establish a framework to bring about lasting peace in the Middle East,” said State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki, stating that the diplomat, who was actually deemed by the American populace to be a worse option than four more years of an administration led by a former baseball team owner and Dick Cheney, could provide the leadership necessary to resolve the bitter, bloody conflict that has raged for more than six decades. “[The individual whose sole goal for more than a year was to make the simple case that he would do a better job than one of the most disliked and poorly rated politicians of all time, and who decisively failed at this singular task] will lay out his bold vision for a road map to peace, and it’s one that we believe both Israelis and Palestinians will be very receptive to. Our best hope for a safe, prosperous Middle East lies with [a guy who came in second to a former substance abuser who nearly choked to death on a pretzel].” Sources throughout Israel and the Palestinian territories said they were optimistic about a peace deal, saying they were eager to hear the ideas of the husband of a powerful food-processing heiress. TheOnion
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 25 Jul 2014, 16:46:51

BobInget wrote:TheOnion
Hey, he has a great plan. Hamas will talk to Abbas, Abbas will talk to Kerry and Kerry will take orders from talk to Netanyahu.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 26 Jul 2014, 15:28:48

Israel's Final Solution for Gazans:
My Outline for a Solution in Gaza
Clear and concise, the steps towards achieving quiet in Gaza.
July 15, 2014
Moshe Feiglin, Deputy Speaker of the Knesset
Ultimatum – One warning from the Prime Minister of Israel to the enemy population, in which he announces that Israel is about to attack military targets in their area and urges those who are not involved and do not wish to be harmed to leave immediately. Sinai is not far from Gaza and they can leave. This will be the limit of Israel’s humanitarian efforts. Hamas may unconditionally surrender and prevent the attack.

Attack – Attack the entire ‘target bank’ throughout Gaza with the IDF’s maximum force (and not a tiny fraction of it) with all the conventional means at its disposal. All the military and infrastructural targets will be attacked with no consideration for ‘human shields’ or ‘environmental damage’. It is enough that we are hitting exact targets and that we gave them advance warning.

Siege – Parallel to the above, a total siege on Gaza. Nothing will enter the area. Israel, however, will allow exit from Gaza. (Civilians may go to Sinai, fighters may surrender to IDF forces).

Defense – Any place from which Israel or Israel’s forces were attacked will be immediately attacked with full force and no consideration for ‘human shields’ or ‘environmental damage’.

Conquer – After the IDF completes the "softening" of the targets with its fire-power, the IDF will conquer the entire Gaza, using all the means necessary to minimize any harm to our soldiers, with no other considerations.

Elimination- The GSS and IDF will thoroughly eliminate all armed enemies from Gaza. The enemy population that is innocent of wrong-doing and separated itself from the armed terrorists will be treated in accordance with international law and will be allowed to leave. Israel will generously aid those who wish to leave.

Sovereignty – Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever. Liberation of parts of our land forever is the only thing that justifies endangering our soldiers in battle to capture land. Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel. The coastal train line will be extended, as soon as possible, to reach the entire length of Gaza.

According to polls, most of the Arabs in Gaza wish to leave. Those who were not involved in anti-Israel activity will be offered a generous international emigration package. Those who choose to remain will receive permanent resident status. After a number of years of living in Israel and becoming accustomed to it, contingent on appropriate legislation in the Knesset and the authorization of the Minister of Interior, those who personally accept upon themselves Israel’s rule, substance and way of life of the Jewish State in its Land, will be offered Israeli citizenship.

They are already into the Conquer and Elimination steps. In addition to easing the housing crisis, it will also give them the offshore gas, but it wouldn't do to mention that.

Israeli Deputy Speaker calls for ethnic cleansing of Gaza
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby JV153 » Tue 29 Jul 2014, 01:55:28

The situation in Iraq/Libya is a real mess, almost seems to change every day, although Iraq is probably
a bigger mess.

http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2014/0 ... er-attack/
http://eaglefordtexas.com/news/id/13222 ... -remain-2/
http://www.pigminenews.com/Pages/Video/e4CbxHBSKr8
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 03 Aug 2014, 01:17:01

First They Conquered Sunni Regions of Iraq, Now They are Consolidating Their Hold on Northeast Syria
ISIS is Winning the War on Two Fronts
There is no sign that Isis is running out of steam in either the Syrian or Iraqi parts of the caliphate declared by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on 29 June. In both countries its fighting force is growing in numbers and effectiveness, if not in popularity. In Mosul its blowing up of the Sunni mosque above the Tomb of Jonah, as well as the destruction of at least 30 other Sunni and Shia shrines, has dismayed local inhabitants.

“Believe me the destruction of the ancient mosques and the persecution of the Mosul Christians have left everyone here helpless,” writes a Sunni woman living in Mosul. “We are very angry and bitter.” But the anger is mixed with helplessness and there is no sign of a counter-revolution by the Iraqi Sunni against Isis which is becoming militarily more powerful by the day. Arabic television stations like al-Arabiya and Al Jazeera, see hopeful signs of Isis being displaced by the Sunni tribes, neo-Baathists and ex-army officers as happened in 2006 during the American occupation. But this time around Isis is expecting a stab in the back and has taken counter measures by demanding that all swear allegiance to the caliphate and arresting those it suspects of disloyalty.

Its run of victories makes Isis difficult to displace and there is no sign of these ending. It is increasing its stranglehold on Baghdad and a government counter-attack to recapture Tikrit failed dismally. Shia volunteers who answered a call from Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani to help the army are streaming home disillusioned and complaining that they suffered heavy losses when they fought and were left without food, arms and ammunition. Nouri al-Maliki, whose maladministration is considered responsible for recent disasters, is still Prime Minister. For many Shia he is the beleaguered leader of their community whom they see as betrayed by the Kurds who expanded their quasi-independent zone by 40 per cent after the fall of Mosul.

Isis has seized most of the wholly Sunni parts of Iraq outside Baghdad, where there are large Sunni enclaves, and south of the capital where there are strategically placed Sunni towns. Advances into mixed or purely Shia districts will mean harder fighting and heavy casualties. Isis, which so far has made few military mistakes, may feel it is easier to take ground in Syria, particularly north of Aleppo from which it made a tactical withdrawal earlier in the year. It may want to eliminate or bring under its sway other rebel groups so, as in Iraq, there is no opposition military force around which its enemies can rally.

Isis has been lucky in that its advances in eastern Syria have taken place as international attention is absorbed by events in Ukraine and Gaza. The Shia political leadership has taken refuge in wishful thinking that the Sunni community is open to a power-sharing deal and regional autonomy. In fact, there is no evidence that Isis or its Baathist allies want to end a war that so far they are winning. Isis might not be able to storm Baghdad by a direct assault but it could reduce it to mayhem by bombs or by blockading it. “If the fall of northern Iraq was the first act of this tragedy, then I suspect there is second act still to come,” said one Iraqi observer.
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Re: THE Middle East (general) Thread (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sun 03 Aug 2014, 01:23:27

The End Game Scenario
Gaza: Is Annexation Israel’s ‘Permanent Solution’?
In fact it’s the gas

Now consider another dimension to the issue, already written about in The Ecologist: Gaza is valuable property thanks to its enormous resources of natural gas.

When originally discovered in 2000, Gaza’s ofshore 1.4 trillion cubic feet of gas reserves were valued at $4 billion. Since then the Gaza Marine reserve has been re-estimated to 1.6 trillion cubic feet, according to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), while”offshore Gaza territory may hold additional energy resources.”

Israel is approaching a severe domestic ‘gas crunch’ pending the development of its own deep-water Leviathan gas field. Moreover it is now estimated that Gaza Marine’s exploitation could yield revenues of $6-7 billion per year.

And one thing is clear – Israel has no intention of letting Hamas anywhere near that money – nor even Fatah, which runs the West Bank, on any terms other than those that Israel lays down. In 2007 Moshe Ya’alon, a former IDF chief of staff, stated:

“It is clear that without an overall military operation to uproot Hamas control of Gaza, no drilling work can take place without the consent of the radical Islamic movement.”

And needless to say, that would be entirely unacceptable.
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