THE Methane Thread (merged)

[Doctor Doom_gst1]

And now, for something completely different:
link 1 and link 2 and link 3 and link 4.

[Andy]

When they find a way to extract the methane at a net positive EROEI and avoid releasing some to the atmosphere, I will become interested. Remember, methane is 10 times more effective as a greenhouse gas and would certainly accelerate planetary climatic cooking.

[Licho]

Burning methane would not help climate either

[smiley]

It think that the exploitation of these recourses will prove to be too much of a challenge.

Imagine what it takes to start strip mining at >300 m below the surface. And these sediments will probably migrate to depressions in the ocean floor, so you'll be lucky to find them at 300 m. The find in near South Carlina lies at about 2000m depth according to my world map.

As soon as you start taking these sediments to the surface the methane starts to release so you probably have to process them in situ.

And thirdly just think of the enormous volumes of soil that you have to move and the environmental impact it will have.

[Leanan]

Forget Hubbert's Peak! A new source of energy is here, one we will never, ever run out of:

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/15/news/funny/fecal_power.reut/index.htm




{The link died. Can you find it back? EE}

[sheilach]

There may be a lot of s**t around, but getting it deposited in the right place could be a problem.

Look at Washington for example, they fly their poop all over the place and in general make a big mess, the hot air they generate while contributing to global warming, does little else.

Properly collected poop can be fermented to make methane, the left over sludge makes a fine fertilizer.

If you have a composting toilet, the poop can be put right to work in the garden making the raw material to produce more poop.

As they say, what goes around, comes around.

Poop is our greatest untapped resource!

Make more poop today and make it work.

[Madpaddy]

S..T HAPPENS

[Itch]

I don't know, guys, I think there would be a lot of times when the EROEI would be at a negative, especially after heavy Mexican food dinners. Besides, how many of you would love to walk outside and smell the glory of shit fumes when you're done eating breakfast?

[sheilach]

In some asian countries, the odor of poop is overwhelming and it's bound to become more common eleswhere as we run out of chemical fertilizers.

We won't be able to afford to toss our lunch into the ocean, we must re-cycle it back into the ecosystem.

The human overpopulation could be put to use by recycling our poop, but when the population crashes, it's back to old horse and bull poop.

how many of you would love to walk outside and smell the glory of doo doo fumes when you're done eating breakfast?

Get use to it, we will need strong stomachs in the years ahead of us, we may well be gratefull that we have enough to eat to produce poop.

[born2respawn]

I suppose you'd move the waste out away from any settlement and nearer to farm land: If you're rotting it down you'd be generating methane, and for safey you'd want that away from large numbers of people as well.

[sheilach]

Definitely keep it away from people!

and for safey you'd want that away from large numbers of people as well.

Small boys are the worse, they love lighting farts, imagine the 'fun' they would have with a methane generator using poop!!

I suppose you'd move the waste out away from any settlement and nearer to farm land

Of course, with transportation being a BIG problem in the future, you would definitley want the poop near the farm, of course with farm machinery now sitting idle for lack of fuel, those same people will also need to live near the farm to help the farmer work it.

[born2respawn]

Transportation only has to be a matter of moving a couple of buckets a few hundred yards to a tank (down wind, preferably). After a while it'd become routine and the effort smell would be just another part of the day.

It's worth it seeing as having the stuff lying around nearby would be asking for trouble: Dysentry/diarrhea would be a massive problem, especially if there's a hint of water shortages.

[sheilach]

It's worth it seeing as having the stuff lying around nearby would be asking for trouble: Dysentry/diarrhea would be a massive problem, especially if there's a hint of water shortages.

That will be another BIG problem post oil peak.Most areas have to pump their water and they use gasoline powered pumps, as the price of fuel rises, many people in the poor countries will not be able to buy the necessary fuel.
There's allready a big problem with water pollution in poor countries, some people just won't learn that human waste shouldn't just be dumped where ever the need arises.

Even when educated about the dangers of pollution from wayward poop, they still refuse even to use latrines.

I guess if their that dumb, they deserve what they get.

It's natures way of culling the unfit.

[born2respawn]

There's allready a big problem with water pollution in poor countries, some people just won't learn that human waste shouldn't just be dumped where ever the need arises.

The problems in these places is... if not caused then certainly exagerated... by trying to impliment a "western style" sewer system: Dumping it in a pit and chucking ash in on top would be far safer than streets fulls of the stuff.

[sheilach]

The problems in these places is... if not caused then certainly exagerated... by trying to impliment a "western style" sewer system: Dumping it in a pit and chucking ash in on top would be far safer than streets fulls of the stuff.

The problem is that people DID try to instruct those people to dig latrines in which to put their body wastes and they refused to use them, choosing instead to take a "dump" where ever the need arose.

They weren't trying to impose a "western style" sewer systems because that would be too expencive and impractical in areas that didn't even have piped in water.
They were used to just leaving it were ever they happend to be and it was too "inconvienent" for them to walk to the smelly latrine/outhouse so they continue to suffer from water born diseases and skin rashes, especially their children.

I learned of this problem while reading "Foundations of Parasitology" by Gerald D.Schmidt & Larry S.Roberts'.

"Tradition" is very difficult to change.

[Leanan]

While sanitation no doubt saves lives, it's now starting to look like it causes other problems. A lot of immune system problems - allergies, asthma, lupus, IBS, arthritis, multiple sclerosis, etc. - seem to be caused by growing up with too much hygiene. Your immune system doesn't learn what a real germ is, and mistakenly attacks the body or overreacts to substances that are harmless.

I was reading an article about this recently. An doctor had moved to the U.S. from India and raised his children here. He remembered getting water from the same river where neighbors upstream were dumping sewage, and the cholera, etc., that sometimes resulted. He's very glad his children don't suffer that. But his children all have allergies, and no one in his family ever had allergies before. He considers it a worthy trade, but still...it's something to think about.

One interesting study found that people rarely suffer allergies if they grow up with both a dog and a cat in the house. Having one or the other was better than none. Having pets may be a good way to get the benefits of early germ exposure, without the drawbacks.

[Ender]

Most areas have to pump their water and they use gasoline powered pumps

Where are you getting this from?

I don't know about other places, but Melbourne's water is mostly gravity fed (you know, lots of water high up, rather than fossil fuels, is how we transport our water).

And are pumps really gasoline powered? I thought most of them were diesel, and a lot of them are electric as well. In any case, assuming you're correct that most places use oil-fired pumps to get their water, how difficult would it be to change that over to electric?

[Leanan]

I don't know about other places, but Melbourne's water is mostly gravity fed (you know, lots of water high up, rather than fossil fuels, is how we transport our water).

We do that here, too, but we have to pump the water up into the water tower first.

And are pumps really gasoline powered? I thought most of them were diesel, and a lot of them are electric as well.

I lived in Manila for a couple of years, and the water pumps were electric there. Whenever the power went out (which was frequently), so did the water. We got in the habit of keeping one of the bathtubs filled, just in case. The people who get their water from wells around here have electric pumps, too.

[Hydro]

The majority of sewage pumps are electric. Why the hell would they use diesel? Electric pumps are more than sufficient.

Most areas have to pump their water and they use gasoline powered pumps

Where are you getting this from? I don't know about other places, but Melbourne's water is mostly gravity fed (you know, lots of water high up, rather than fossil fuels, is how we transport our water).
And are pumps really gasoline powered? I thought most of them were diesel, and a lot of them are electric as well. In any case, assuming you're correct that most places use oil-fired pumps to get their water, how difficult would it be to change that over to electric?

[sheilach]

The majority of sewage pumps are electric. Why the hell would they use diesel? Electric pumps are more than sufficient.

Even electric pumps mostly use electricity generated by fossil fuels like coal, natural gas, oil, kerosene or gasoline.

As fossil fuels become more expensive, they will need to switch to hydro power, wind powered pumps or solar powered pumps. :D

Fossil fuels are in EVERYTHING!