THE Methane Thread (merged)

[Carlhole]

Um, perhaps, because it is STILL interesting.

Yeah.

[pstarr]

Scientists weenie 1st year grad students looking for funding at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory used supercomputers to simulate . . .

They were simulating a real job?

[Carlhole]

Scientists weenie 1st year grad students looking for funding at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory used supercomputers to simulate . . .

They were simulating a real job?

You don't have to demonstrate your childish frustrations over and over again. Everybody already knows your level of maturity, pstarr.

[pstarr]

Scientists weenie 1st year grad students looking for funding at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory used supercomputers to simulate . . .

They were simulating a real job?

You don't have to demonstrate your childish frustrations over and over again. Everybody already knows your level of maturity, pstarr.

dude, you knowingly posted this sh@t and should expect comments in kind. We have been through the abiotic issue endlessly here and it is no longer a curiosity. Even to mention it detracts from the gravitas of this forum and sheds ill wind upon our lofty endeavors.

[Carlhole]

Scientists weenie 1st year grad students looking for funding at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory used supercomputers to simulate . . .

They were simulating a real job?

You don't have to demonstrate your childish frustrations over and over again. Everybody already knows your level of maturity, pstarr.

dude, you knowingly posted this sh@t and should expect comments in kind. We have been through the abiotic issue endlessly here and it is no longer a curiosity. Even to mention it detracts from the gravitas of this forum and sheds ill wind upon our lofty endeavors.

It was a Lawrence Livermore supercomputer study you incurious dumbass.

[pstarr]

don't take it so personally. I wasn't insulting the Robot, just the story. It's not a friend of yours?

[steam_cannon]

Oh, here we go with the knickers and the bunching...

I think you should have introduced the article by describing it correctly. Or perhaps you could have put in a joke, like "this will produce enough fuel for the abiotic posters to drive around the block once every thousand years... Lol".

Instead you've misrepresented a topic of research and started name calling. Though "incurious dumbass" is not very bad name calling, so I'll give you credit for that.

[PrestonSturges]

Bottom line is that when people have drilled past oil deposits, they don't find deep spring of hydrocarbons, they find bone dry rock. Ain't nothing down there.

[mos6507]

ad hom deleted

[Carlhole]

Oh, here we go with the knickers and the bunching...

I think you should have introduced the article by describing it correctly. Or perhaps you could have put in a joke, like "this will produce enough fuel for the abiotic posters to drive around the block once every thousand years... Lol".

Instead you've misrepresented a topic of research and started name calling. Though "incurious dumbass" is not very bad name calling, so I'll give you credit for that.

I DID describe it correctly by including to the two most relevant paragraphs.

Really, it is just an interesting supercomputer study. It could be that part of the Earth's petroleum deposits were formed this way in addition to ancient plant and algae deposits. What's the BFD?

No one knows how much hydrocarbon deposits could have formed this way. The LLNL supercomputer study merely ascertained that it is possible and/or likely. It might be a small contribution; it might be large. No one knows.

There are certain subjects, relevant to peak oil, that put doomers on the rag sure as sh-t. This is one of them.

[careinke]

I thought it was interesting in itself.

[Cid_Yama]

There are only two ways that I see possible to fix this. Both are acts of God that may be worse.

1. Supervolcano eruption. Yellowstone is due.

2. Major Asteroid strike, equivalent to Chicxulub.

What the heck. After the global financial meltdown, BP in the Gulf and Fukushima, Don't you figure that's probably what comes next anyway?

President Obama probably feels like Job right about now. There hasn't been a President in history that has had to deal with more catastrophic crap than he has. And he's only been in office a couple years.

[PrestonSturges]

Blocking sunlight is going to have a corresponding (?) decrease in crop yields, so cooling the world would deliberately starve hundreds of mostly poor millions.

[PrestonSturges]

Blocking sunlight is going to have a corresponding (?) decrease in crop yields, so cooling the world would deliberately starve hundreds of mostly poor millions.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Blocking sunlight is going to have a corresponding (?) decrease in crop yields, so cooling the world would deliberately starve hundreds of mostly poor millions.

We don't need to worry about that because projects aimed at this goal are in firm domain of Sci-Fi.

Your argument is also misplaced:

By not doing it we will starve several billions in due course due to farmland destruction, desertification etc.

However it is *impossible* to do it, so it will not be done.

[PrestonSturges]

Blocking sunlight is going to have a corresponding (?) decrease in crop yields, so cooling the world would deliberately starve hundreds of mostly poor millions.

We don't need to worry about that because projects aimed at this goal are in firm domain of Sci-Fi.
Your argument is also misplaced:
By not doing it we will starve several billions in due course due to farmland destruction, desertification etc.
However it is *impossible* to do it, so it will not be done.

As a group, people are quite content to passively let other groups of people die. if it requires making an active decision, they might experience a tinge of morality. But in either scenario, it's the poor that die first, so it all comes out in the wash, doesn't it?

[kildred590]

Scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory used supercomputers to simulate what would happen to carbon and hydrogen atoms buried 40 to 95 miles beneath the Earth’s crust, where they would be subjected to prodigious pressures and temperatures.

Says who ?
Pretty sure the pressure decreases as you go further into the Earth, that's why it's liquid rather than being "more" solid.

The pressure which creates volcanoes is lateral pressure of sliding plates.

[rockdoc123]

Says who ?
Pretty sure the pressure decreases as you go further into the Earth, that's why it's liquid rather than being "more" solid.

The pressure which creates volcanoes is lateral pressure of sliding plates.

couldn't be more wrong. As you go deeper in the crust hydrostatic pressure increase at a rate of about .45 psi/ft which means the pressure increase in rocks is at least that or higher. The pressure at the bottom of the mantle is about 1.4 GPa or in other terms pressure at surface is 1 ATM and at the base of the mantle several million ATM.

The "lateral pressure of sliding plates" has nothing to do with volcanoes. Volcanoes are created in two means, by mantle upwelling through the crust around hotspots (eg. Hawaiin islands, Yellowstone) or by upwelling of melted subduction zone material in back-arc positions around subduction zones (eg. Mt Fuji in Japan, Mt Ranier, Mt St Helens in the western US).

[Ferretlover]

Australia is considering awarding carbon credits for killing feral camels as a way to tackle climate change.
The suggestion is included in Canberra's "Carbon Farming Initiative", a consultation paper by the Department of Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, seen Thursday.

Adelaide-based Northwest Carbon, a commercial company, proposed culling some 1.2 million wild camels that roam the Outback, the legacy of herds introduced to help early settlers in the 19th century.

Considered a pest due to the damage they do to vegetation, a camel produces, on average, a methane equivalent to one tonne of carbon dioxide a year, making them collectively one of Australia's major emitters of greenhouse gases.

In its plan, Northwest said it would shoot them from helicopters or muster them and send them to an abattoir for either human or pet consumption.

"We're a nation of innovators and we find innovative solutions to our challenges -- this is just a classic example," Northwest Carbon managing director Tim Moore told Australian Associated Press.

The idea was among those accepted for discussion by the government, which is seeking to "provide new economic opportunities for farmers, forest growers and landholders" if they come up with ways to cut emissions, according to the document.

Heavily reliant on coal-fired power and mining exports, Australia is one of the world's worst per capita polluters and the government is looking at ways to clean up its act.

Legislation for the "Carbon Farming Initiative" is set to go before parliament next week.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.7a5f7af9f08212f6d2aaa2f75c515f65.6c1&show_article=1

Maybe the camels need to go anyway for other reasons, but.. in general I don't like the idea of killing wildlife being tied to emission reduction to "save the planet." Just philosophically that's not a good direction to go in.. if Australia's big coal and mining operations are the problem, then address it directly -- finding all these creative "offsets" so you get to keep right on polluting is stupid. Where will they stop? How many animals will they kill to offset human industrial pollution?

[ritter]

PETA is going to have all kinds of fits over this one.

Invasive species eradication is tricky. On the one hand, it's a critter and should have it's shot at life. On the other, invasives tend to be very upsetting to the existing ecology. And I guess camels fart a lot too.