[Terrapin]

Good question.

In my town...The hazardous waste people will take up to 40 feet of (standard) florescent bulbs per day for free, but you have to deliver it to them. I have no idea what that translates to in CFs. Other Hazardous waste sites may not be as generous and have disposal charges I don’t know what they do with it, I suspect that they bury it in some relatively bomb proof pit someplace. (?)

[Terrapin]

I did some Googling.

“Proper disposal” of CFLs is dependent upon how your waste management district deals with the trash:
energystar.gov pdf
energystar.gov html

Some places apparently recycle.

To find out what you should do (in the US)

Got to http://www.earth911.org/master.asp

"Detailed instructions for navigating the EARTH 911 siteFirst, go to the yellow box in the upper left corner and put in your zip code; next, in the upper left corner click on “household hazardous waste”; finally, go to the center of the new page, household hazardous waste section, and click on “fluorescent bulbs.”"

[WisJim]

In my city, in Western Wisconsin, the city and county run recycling center has barrels or bins to put flourescent bulbs and tubes in, no charge. We have a box out in the barn that we put them in, and every year or so, when we take a load of recyleable stuff out to the center, we take the bulbs, along with used motor oil from oil changes in our vehicles and farm equipment, plastics, paper, cardboard, etc.

[xerces]

After replacing 24 of the lights in my house with NVision Florescent lights, the electric bill was slashed by 40%. This is so awesome!!!!

http://backtowilderness.blogspot.com/

[brobak]

2. To the extent they do help, it only pushes back the day of reckoning . . .

Isnt that kinda the whole point? I mean, sure, on a long enough time scale we're all dead...but I know that I'll still try to eat healthy and exercise because, all things being equal, that pushes back my day of reckoning...

[steam_cannon]

That is hugely out of proportion with the average homeowner.

I don't know...

My sister in MA did the same thing with her bulbs and had similar results. In response the electric company has changed her meeter three times! This last time they added special tamper-proof turn once bolts to their device... I guess they think, how can it be possible for someone's meter readings to go down by something like 40%, she changed all her bulbs.

So her experience is similar to xerces. It sounds like an improbably amount of electricity you were wasting with your bulbs, but she had similar results.

It makes me think of a wagon wheel chandler my parents have in Arkansas. The chandler uses 10 mini 60 Watt bulbs and most of the light is absorbed by "black" up-lighting reflectors. That chandler is a 600 Watt electric heater running all day and causes higher AC usage in the summer. Changing those out would make a big difference. My sister replaced a number of lights like that. The thing is, modern designers don't usually have one light bulb per room, so each room can draw a lot of power, especially if they installed anything fancy.

I found an LCD monitor for my computer more then halfed my computers power usage (testing with a Kill-a-watt between the wall and power strip). Now I can get my computer, my wifes laptop, and a 100 watt equivalent florescent bulb all on one power strip. So these things made a big difference for me. Though we can no longer heat a room with our computers...

By reducing how much heating you do with Electric, you do have to heat more with another source, gas/oil/wood/solar... But this heat usually costs less then electric so it tends to be a good deal. Also in the summer you have less need for AC because you are running cooler.

And besides changing light bulbs my sister turns off electric appliances not in use, plastics seals windows and runs her heat down to around 60... Makes a big difference.

[steam_cannon]

The oil heat is out in my building this morning, so I happened to be noticing how much cooler our new appliances run. Our old computers were like two heaters But these LED monitors run much cooler... Anyway, they will get the heat fixed soon and I am sipping hot tea with hot bread, so I'll survive. \_/2

An interesting thing, since the heat is off this morning I have been testing how well a multi fuel stove I made works as an alcohol space heater. It would be very good for a big tent. And no alcohol heaters are not a carbon monoxide hazard. Eventually I am going to make one with a fan, like a propane pass through tent heater, only simpler.


More on topic, here are some pictures of the Kill-a-watt measuring device I was talking about.

[jody]

After replacing 24 of the lights in my house with NVision Florescent lights, the electric bill was slashed by 40%. This is so awesome!!!!

http://backtowilderness.blogspot.com/

I have done the same thing years ago. We had gas dryer and cook stove and hot water and of course heat. I got down to 150kw a month. (with compact bulbs) The city came and changed the meter several times. It is possible to reduce your use. I did another test here (new house) last summer and cut standby electrcity use. That is unplug VCR's DVD players TV's that are seldom used put power bars on computer and shut off whole system when not in use. Basically unplug all those AC/DC adapters for cordless phones etc. We had several in the house and cut electricity use 50%. There is a lot of little shit you do not think of like printer adapter modem adapter router adapter the list is huge! (we already had compact flourescent bulbs) We got down to 250kw a month. I now have a wife and two kids so it is higher than the old house. More laundry computer time, TV etc. We also bought a front load washing machine (LG one of the most effiecent) and got an all fridge in the kitchen (no freezer) It uses much less electricity. (around 30kw a month) compared to our old Maytag that was rated for 90kw (when new) It is there folks just amazing how much you can cut. We also put insulation in the attic to 24 inches! Huge change in air condioning bill. Saved 20%+ on heat but more on air. Lots of people do not think how hot it gets in the attic and that heat pours down into the house. I know you are thinking the insulation was low in the attic but the house is in Canada and is only 10 years old built to the same standard as new homes and I tripled the insulation. Cost $1100 but money is already back in couple of years and now going to pocket.

[topcat]

So far, we have replaced about 12 bulbs with CF's. Not sure we have seen much of a difference as they were not all replaced at once. Started with the most heavily used and gradually went on to others. They do make us feel better using them.

What HAS surprised me, in the past week or so, I have seen two blurbs on main-stream, prime-time TV touting CF's. You know things are bad when you hear/see conservation in such a forum.

[steam_cannon]

China: From growth to 'quality of growth'
Public Policy; Political and Legal NewsChina houses 21% of the world's people. Keep that ratio in mind. To provide its people with their current living standard, China has the following resources to call on: 7% of the world's freshwater reserves, 11% of the world's primary energy supply, 7% of the world's arable land, 6% of the world's roads and 2% of the world's passenger cars. China also produces 14% of world's carbon-dioxide emissions.

The only way to avoid the logic of this arithmetic is to achieve a rapid leap up the energy-efficiency curve. The official targets for improved energy efficiency, reaffirmed at the NPC, are highly ambitious. Highlighting the difficulties, the interim target for 2006 was missed by a large margin. The strong price signal that would encourage energy savings sits uneasily with the harmonious-society doctrine.
http://www.peakoil.com/article24378.html

Looking at the front page of the site today, it seems that to continue growth and maintain standards of living, China is looking into encouraging energy saving devices. I've seen news on this before. So I guess the Chinese government sees promise in devices like florescent lights. Of course there aren't many other choices, start turning things off or become more efficient.

[yesplease]

40%? Seems very high, unless you aren't using electricity for any of the following . . .

A 40% drop in the bill is believable given the tiered system some utility companies use for billing. It may only correspond to a 20% decrease in kwh use, but it's still something. In terms of reliability, I've burnt these out in a month by using them in dimmers, and had them run for years in the garage/outside. On-off cycling definitely hurts 'em, but, if we're thrifty, we may find them on sale, a four pack for a buck or something similar. I especially like the automatic LED night lights when they're two for a buck.

[FoxV]

2. The estimated life of the bulbs is off by a factor of about 5-10.

I can't say that I agree with this. I've had some CFLs for 5 years now, they're still working adequate for me. These first CFLs are the ones IKEA came out with before they were mainstream. And I must say they are the worst of the lot, akward shape, start up slow, and take longer to start up with age.

That being said I they're still doing a good job and I won't be replacing them.

I also have one bulb that's been running 24/7 for over a year now (Maybe even 2). In either case, well over the 10,000 hours (at most) they rate them for.

but I will agree with you Gideon that something is wrong with xerces's conclusion of saving 40%. Since switching all my Incans to CFL, I haven't noticed any savings because lighting is a small part of my electricity bill (all my appliances are new and efficient, and my heat and water is on nat gas).

P.S. I recently got some "fat albert" style CFLs from IKEA. The damn things start at around 10% brightness and take about 2 minutes to reach full brightness (which at 6 bulbs is almost full daylight). Energy Star they are not. I will be replacing these ones soon and will not buy any more bulbs for IKEA. You save an extra 2 watts with them (no heater I believe) but at the sacrafice of low output on startup.

[jody]

One thing I did forget to mention. In the summer when you cut electricity use you also cut air conditioning demand. One 100 watt bulb produces 341btu's of heat that must be taken out by the air so when you cut electricity use in the summer you doubled it because now you do not have to pay to cool it. Of course the opposite is true in winter. But even living in Canada one would be surprised to find out air conditioning is more expensive than heat. Heat is gas, air is electric $.

[steam_cannon]

What HAS surprised me, in the past week or so, I have seen two blurbs on main-stream, prime-time TV touting CF's. You know things are bad when you hear/see conservation in such a forum.

Or in China...

It seems people are discovering the world has limits.

[steam_cannon]

What HAS surprised me, in the past week or so, I have seen two blurbs on main-stream, prime-time TV touting CF's. You know things are bad when you hear/see conservation in such a forum.

Another thing about media...

A friend of mine was watching a show talking about using Florescent bulbs and the first time he watched it he thought they meant that we would not need foreign oil if we all installed one bulb. Then he happened to watch it again and saw they meant that we would have "less" dependence on foreign oil if we installed bulbs... Since most people only watched the show once, I'm sure there are some misinformed people out there now. So I think the media is still doing their job misinforming people...

[steam_cannon]

A 40% drop in the bill is believable given the tiered system some utility companies use for billing. It may only correspond to a 20% decrease in kwh use, but it's still something.

That's a good explanation!

[yesplease]

A 40% drop in the bill is believable given the tiered system some utility companies use for billing. It may only correspond to a 20% decrease in kwh use, but it's still something.

That's a good explanation!

Thank you! Upon looking at my electric bill definitely it's a lot more here in CA. Going over the alloted baseline results into a doubling of charges up to twice the baseline, and after that, it's four times the baseline rate. Three times the baseline use results in six times the normal rate! If I pay $40 per month at the baseline, I'll pay ~$120 per month at twice the baseline, and ~$240 per month at three times the baseline. I.e. if I use 3 times the baseline per month, and drop my consumption by a third, I'll cut my bill in half.

[MattSavinar]

I had a 40% drop in KW usaged from the lightbulbs and not having to use my printer at all.

Note: I do not have a washer, drier, television, or pretty much anything other than my laptop and a few lights. Fridge is on lowest setting possible.

[Ingenuity_Gap]

I live in an end-unit townhouse facing north, west and south. All these walls have big windows. I close the blinds only after dawn. The house is literally swimming in light almost all day. Basically I turn on the lights only a few hours a day and only in the room I'm in.

During summer there is no need for the airconditioner to work more to offset the heat of the light bulbs, because the day is longer and when the night comes the house is already cooler.

I live in a typical North American household with basic electric appliances like: fridge, washer, dryer, dishwasher, vacuum cleaner, air conditioner. All appliances are new and energy saving by the 2006 standard.

This being said, for me there is almost zero benefit from switching to compact light bulbs. I did it anyway. I don't like to consume more than I should.

By all standards, light bulbs are consuming the least in a household, after VCRs and radio clocks. Simply because they are not used that much, at least not by me. A fridge will always consume way more than a light bulb, regardless of energy efficiency, because it runs almost 24/7. A dryer also consumes a hell of a lot more, even if it's used only once a week for a couple of hours. And let's not talk about the air conditioner.

So, when somebody's saying that they reduced their energy bill by 40% by switching to compact light bulbs, I'm laughing my head off. What? You have no fridge? No air conditioner? You're keeping your lights on all day long? Only that will explain the huge 40% savings. And anyway, if you have no major appliances, your power consumption and energy bill were small from the beginning.

How typical is a household without fridge and air conditioner for North America? Or Europe for that matter?

We can all switch to compact fluorescent at once but that will accomplish almost nothing in terms of reducing our gargantuan energy consumption. We'll probably delay PO with a couple of seconds.

Remember that compact fluorescent bulbs cost more both in terms of price and resources used for their manufacture. Same as switching to hybrid cars: the energy saving is nothing compared to their price and the resources used to build them. Especially if you drive them on the highway, which is what most of us do.

This is definitely not the solution to our problems. It does the same good as an aspirin to a brain tumor.

[strider3700]

A fridge will always consume way more than a light bulb, regardless of energy efficiency, because it runs almost 24/7.

Although I agree with your post I have to point out that if your fridge runs almost 24/7 then you've got something wrong with your fridge. Mine runs somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 the time depending on the inside temperature. It's quite old and newer ones will work less then that.

My house was all electric until the addition of the woodstove this past winter. during the summers the hotwater tank was the heavy user followed by the fridge, then the washing machine. During the winters the heaters was the heavy user followed by the dryer then the hotwater, fridge and washing machine. Lighting was at best 5% of the total bill. Changing to CF's probably dropped it to 1%. Heating with wood made a huge difference in the bills and I'm hoping that solar hotwater this summer will make a big difference as well. Non of these changes are going to do a thing to save the world. I still have a car and it's far worse then everything else I do combined.